[Newworlds]

NW has pretty general map on the website which players seem to like. In reference to auto-mapping, most players seem to have clients that automap for them and use that feature so frequently, I'm not sure of the benefit to code a specific game client to include such.

[obit]

I think a graphical map is great to have for any MUD. When it comes down to it, if you don't create one and put it up somewhere, eventually, one of your players will. This one was actually created by a player and was better than the one we had. So, with his permission of course, we added it to the game's homepage.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by Newworlds NW has pretty general map on the website which players seem to like. In reference to auto-mapping, most players seem to have clients that automap for them and use that feature so frequently, I'm not sure of the benefit to code a specific game client to include such.

Most potential players don't have their own MUD client, keep in mind, and asking them to download a third party piece of software to play your game is not very friendly to people new to the MUD world.

--matt

[Aeran]

Originally Posted by the_logos Most potential players don't have their own MUD client, keep in mind, and asking them to download a third party piece of software to play your game is not very friendly to people new to the MUD world.

It reminds me abit of the discussions about the casual player. Those discussion seem to just keep decrease how much a casual player should need to play a game.

While a Java client on the website of a MUD is nice, the absence of one doesn't mean it stops players from playing the game. If you look at e.g FilePlanet there's a lot of very large downloads for mmrpg clients avaible there.

Eventually most MUD players will (in my opinion) want a client they can download. There are many benefits from such a client. For example in cMUD you can make maps, triggers and have those settings stored on your own computer. The data is private and it isn't there for the MUD admins to look at. Some of the clients support more secure communication as well with builtin chat clients that doesn't go through the MUD server.

[Hephos]

On the subject of graphical maps. Take a look at the realm map used in BatClient, it is pretty sweet. You see your own location and friends locations in the world realtime as well. It works similar to "Google maps" with a zoom and pan feature and you can see "markers" for different world locations. You can also create your own markers for special locations that you think is important.

Batclient | www.bat.org

[tommi]

Originally Posted by the_logos Most potential players don't have their own MUD client, keep in mind, and asking them to download a third party piece of software to play your game is not very friendly to people new to the MUD world. --matt

Trouble here matt is that most mud owners only ever target mudders as their primary audience. In the MMO world everyone downloads a client that connects directly to the server they want to play.

With that in mind for ELDHAmud we are going to develop a client that connects directly to our server, offers a minimal set of features like alias and macros and not one of those java telnet applet type things that you can imbed in your page either, but a fully featured stand alone client.

ELDHAmuds target audience is not mudders, the smart money would be on promoting to a non mudding audience and working in a way they understand.

[Milawe]

Obit, that's a totally gorgeous map!

Your player did a great job on it.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by Aeran It reminds me abit of the discussions about the casual player. Those discussion seem to just keep decrease how much a casual player should need to play a game.

Decreasing the 'barrier to entry' is important for getting anyone to do anything, anywhere in life really. Universally, the bigger the barrier to entry the bigger the 'carrot' has to be on the other side of that barrier to get people to go through the hassle of climbing over that barrier.

While a Java client on the website of a MUD is nice, the absence of one doesn't mean it stops players from playing the game. If you look at e.g FilePlanet there's a lot of very large downloads for mmrpg clients avaible there.

A client that doesn't require an install has a lower barrier to entry than a client that does, and you need to remember that the big fat dedicated MMO client downloads are a barrier to entry (if you compare all the free MMOs, for instance, you'll find that the most popular ones are all those that don't require a big client download).

Beyond that though, those client downloads are free and have pretty graphics to serve as a carrot. Zmud/Cmud costs money, so you're saying to a player, "If you want to play my game well you have to buy a third party piece of software." That sucks, though Zmud/Cmud is developed enough that it's hard to expect any single text MUD company to replace its functionality. Shame that an open source client that's as capable as Zmud/Cmud has never been developed.

Eventually most MUD players will (in my opinion) want a client they can download. There are many benefits from such a client. For example in cMUD you can make maps, triggers and have those settings stored on your own computer. The data is private and it isn't there for the MUD admins to look at. Some of the clients support more secure communication as well with builtin chat clients that doesn't go through the MUD server.

Yep, I would agree with that. There's a difference between most players wanting a client they can download once they become a regular player of a game though and telling them that just to try it out they have to put up with either a third-party download or the terrible experience that Windows telnet gives (and it's not even enabled by default in Vista).

None of this really applies to existing MUD players that already have Zmud/Cmud of course. Those people are easy to make happy though as they're already used to dealing with unfriendly text-based UIs, already know how great text MUDs can be once you get passed that initial UI difficulty, etc. Focusing on those people means all you're doing is moving the same players around the text MUD market rather than trying to bring new people into it by making your MUD friendly to people who have never played one before but who may find that they love the depth and closer-knit community that text MUDs can bring.

--matt

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by tommi Trouble here matt is that most mud owners only ever target mudders as their primary audience.

Yeah.

In the MMO world everyone downloads a client that connects directly to the server they want to play

Well, that's sort of true. In the Western world, the most popular MMOs are no-install clients, such as Runescape's java client or Habbo's Shockwave client. After that you have WoW standing on its own (as no other retail MMO comes even close to WoW's popularity), and then you have the popular free downloaded MMOs like Maple Story and Dofus and such.

--matt

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by Hephos On the subject of graphical maps. Take a look at the realm map used in BatClient, it is pretty sweet. You see your own location and friends locations in the world realtime as well. It works similar to "Google maps" with a zoom and pan feature and you can see "markers" for different world locations. You can also create your own markers for special locations that you think is important. Batclient | www.bat.org

Now that is indeed a gorgeous client.

--matt

[obit]

Originally Posted by Mina Obit, that's a totally gorgeous map! Your player did a great job on it.

I'm glad you like it! There's several more, just like it, one for each other quadrant. The only drawback to it, is that JTrek is a true 3-D game. Your position in the universe is constantly updated in an X Y Z format. The 2-D maps only present the X-Y axis(which isn't all bad, since the objects are "flattened" throughout each quadrant- that is to say, the Z axis of in-game objects doesn't vary nearly as much as the X or Y axis.)

If someone were to spend a few hours(or a lot of hours) putting something together, with a "dragable" feature, to rotate the universe any which way, it might make it more interesting(though not neccesarily more advantageous) for players.

The awsome thing is, like any MUD, you mentally visualize where you're at after a while, ie, "I'm eeennwws from the Inn" in the same manner. Only, In JTrek, you know that if you head from Starbase 4 to Planet Vulcan, you'll pass within scanner range of SB3. You create a 3 dimensional image in your head of what the universe contains, and it is rationally supported by numbers and your actual XYZ coordinates in the game.

[Aeran]

Originally Posted by the_logos Shame that an open source client that's as capable as Zmud/Cmud has never been developed.

Would a good freeware MUD client really help the community though? It's possible if someone made a competing free client it would bring Zuggsoft out of bussiness. That would be very bad for MUDs.

[obit]

I don't think freeware is ever bad for anyone's business. In the grand scheme of things, inovation spawns more inovation. While something might cut into a company's margins a bit(ala firefox), it inspires that company to develope something better, ultimately resulting in a better product for the consumer.

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by Aeran Would a good freeware MUD client really help the community though? It's possible if someone made a competing free client it would bring Zuggsoft out of bussiness. That would be very bad for MUDs.

It would only put Zuggsoft out of business if they didn't keep improving their product. Competing products are generally good for the customer, while long-term monopolies usually aren't (which is why the government usually steps in, although I can't see that happening here).

[tommi]

Originally Posted by Aeran Would a good freeware MUD client really help the community though? It's possible if someone made a competing free client it would bring Zuggsoft out of bussiness. That would be very bad for MUDs.

Im tring to currently get one off the ground that has the following features that mud owners can use on their own websites.

1. Skinable interface - individualize the client to the muds requirement.
2. Clickable regions with macros for common tasks - score, inventory movement etc.
3. Macro support
4. Alias support
5. Configuration file to set the mud url and port to connect to, client size x-y and anything else of use.
6. Connects to only 1 mud via cfg file

I think for most muds to go forward they will need to start to look outside the mudding world to find new players and a client like above will make the transition for not mudders a lot less painless.

[Aeran]

Originally Posted by tommi I think for most muds to go forward they will need to start to look outside the mudding world to find new players and a client like above will make the transition for not mudders a lot less painless.

The problem is also that there are Java MUD client applets out there already that can be used, e.g MudMagic has made one avaible(Mud Magic: MudMagic Java Telnet Client : clients/java). The MUD Connector also has a Java client on their website, it is unfortunate they don't link to it from their MUD searches(Mud Connector: Java Telnet Client). The MUD Connector one suffers from flicker when redrawing and it needs improved colour support as well .

In the case of MUD Connector(TMC) it acts as a proxy so everyone who connects through it gets a TMC IP on the MUD. That could also be seen as an issue because the admins of a MUD might want to know who connects so they can properly moderate their game. It could be nice if the MUD community made a standard for these proxies so you could query the real IP through telnet negotiation(assuming no such standard for telnet proxies already exist). Of course it can also be seen as a security issue as passwords and other data go through the 3rd party proxy. It might also be a bandwidth issue for TMC to proxy the connections.

MudMagic has Java applet as well on their website but it is unlike TMC connected to the MUD listing entries. So instead of using Windows telnet to connect you can click and chose their Java client to connect to the MUD. Their Java client seem to work quite well but it doesn't properly support colours on the MUD I tested it on . Lag is also an issue . The MUD I tried is located in my country but with their proxying applet the connection is relayed through the US.

Anyway the TMC one would be nice if it was improved and actually used on the MUD listing now that Vista appearently has thrown away the Windows telnet client.

[obit]

Originally Posted by Aeran Anyway the TMC one would be nice if it was improved and actually used on the MUD listing now that Vista appearently has thrown away the Windows telnet client.

Vista has it, but it is disabled by default.

Control Panel > Programs and Features > Turn Windows features on or off > Telnet Client

to activate it. After doing so, "Start > Run > telnet (address)" works fine. Only thing, is that all of the options aren't available from the shell(ie localecho). However, if you telnet directly from the cmd prompt, you can you can manually enter all of the "set xxx" commands.