[Rivalyn]

Will this be the first of the mmorpg's that truly cater to the mud market with a graphical interface? Previously, most mmorpg's have been too linear, not really developing a storyline in a way that a mud can. Will Simutronics finally create a graphical environment that can do it?

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Whoops, misspelled their name in the topic title.

[Threshold]

I think it would be really great if they did.

The MMO market needs to grow OUTWARD in a lot more areas rather than just focussing on refinding a single model of gameplay (level grind).

I also think it would be great if ONCE AGAIN it was a company from the MUDing world that showed the SOEs and Blizzards of the world how to make something truly interesting and innovative.

[the_logos]

Well first, they aren't targetting the text MUD market. It's not a large enough market to be worth targetting a large graphical MUD at (a number of graphical MUDs have more players than all text MUDs combined, for instance).

Second, linear design exists because we don't have AI that can take into account the context of a character's past actions and give them individualized stories that make sense based on that. Barring that, you need humans doing it, and it's too expensive to have humans doing it on that scale. MxO tried, but all they really did was have Gamemasters possess NPCs occasionally and read pre-written scripts.

Finally, I disagree with Threshold that Mythic, to whom he is, I believe, referring, actually made anything innovative. Most of DAoC's design is based off of their text MUD, "Darkness Falls." In fact, all DAoC really did that was fundamentally different from EQ was implement the Realm vs. Realm angle, which they took directly from Darkness Falls. DaoC = level grind w/ RvR combat.

My take on Hero's Journey is that they might be successful, but they certainly won't deliver the kind of experience a text MUD can give you. It's simply not financially feasible for the forseeable future. (alliteration, ho! I'm also put off by what is obviously marketing-speak being delivered by David Whatley, Simu's CEO. It's hard not to roll your eyes when you hear him saying, "Hero's Journey has what is called the Journey System that dynamically creates story arcs for your character." Yeah, right. And in our next MUD, we're going to have Turing-capable AI!

On the other hand, the fact that they're trying to focus on making combat a bit more tactical will be interesting. If they succeed with the combat it could be a cool system, but what they're proposing involves quite a few technical challenges, and Simutronics may not have the resources to pull it off.

--matt

[Threshold]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ July 10 2005,16:03) Finally, I disagree with Threshold that Mythic, to whom he is, I believe, referring, actually made anything innovative.

That's a logical assumption (since I do think highly of Mythic's move from text to graphics), but when I said:

Originally Posted by I also think it would be great if ONCE AGAIN it was a company from the MUDing world that showed the SOEs and Blizzards of the world how to make something truly interesting and innovative.

what I meant was that actual text MUDs are tons more innovative than graphical MMOs. Frequently you see MMOs trying to spice things up by implementing a feature that is old hat in the MUD world.

I always enjoy seeing the graphical games desperately floundering about to try and implement "brand new, totally awesome!!!!" features that have existed in MUDs for years- if not decades.

Graphical games certainly have their own areas where they excel. It is nice to see the areas where text games are still better. And it would be nice to see a traditionally text game company make a more innovative graphical game than SOE, Blizzard, et. al. have made.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Threshold @ July 10 2005,18:39) Graphical games certainly have their own areas where they excel.

Yeah, and it sounds like Hero's Journey's combat system may actually be trying to take advantage of the graphical medium to do things that don't really work in text, which will be interesting if they manage it well.

--matt

[Threshold]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ July 10 2005,18:58) Originally Posted by (Threshold @ July 10 2005,18:39) Graphical games certainly have their own areas where they excel. Yeah, and it sounds like Hero's Journey's combat system may actually be trying to take advantage of the graphical medium to do things that don't really work in text, which will be interesting if they manage it well. --matt

That would be neat. Certainly worth giving a shot.

Good luck to 'em.

[Ilkidarios]

This sounds awesome. I've been saying they need to do something like this for a LONG time, but since I don't program MUDs or graphical games, I could never do it myself.

[tehScarecrow]

I'll agree the GM thing sounds very over rated. It's not like people in MUDs and frankly in Everquest etc. don't try to do that, but they just don't have the time for most people. Referring to them as "Genius GMs" made me laugh too. Perhaps if players are allowed to do this GM thing then it could be good, otherwise I don't see what the point of talking about the GM tools is if they're admin tools- players don't care about that. It will probably bring more people to their other games however, and thus to MUDs.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Ilkidarios @ July 11 2005,16:38) This sounds awesome.  I've been saying they need to do something like this for a LONG time, but since I don't program MUDs or graphical games, I could never do it myself.

Not to mention that you likely don't have 10+ million dollars!

--matt

[Ilkidarios]

That too.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Ilkidarios @ July 13 2005,02:28) That too.

Although, if you get 10 million dollars in the near future, we should definitely talk. Definitely. Keep me updated on your 8 figure status please.

--matt

[Slanted]

While I applaud their efforts I really can't bring myself to trust Simutronics on any level. Playing Gemtone 3 for a few years soured me to their false promises and utter lack of initiative. However, they talk well, and who knows, maybe this one will turn out.

I think if you are looking for a more 'MUD Like' system in a MMORG, you might want to check out Roma Victor (www.roma-victor.com). They are a smaller development studio that is focusing their game on RP and a more realistic world and mechanic system. The combat especially reminds me of MUDS with its lack of HP and targettable areas (albeit via mouse movements instead of commands). Then again, most games end up being a lot less than is promised, at least initially. I will have to see how it pans out.

[Jazuela]

Let's see. Simu announced at one of their Cons the projected opening date of HJ..this was back in 1999, I'm pretty sure. Maybe 1998. They projected its opening for alpha testing for 2000. They're still plugging away, 5 years later, announcing the projected opening. Good to know they're consistent, anyway.

If they're really lucky, by the time they actually DO open HJ, it won't be so utterly obsolete that no one will bother.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Jazuela @ July 13 2005,09:34) Let's see. Simu announced at one of their Cons the projected opening date of HJ..this was back in 1999, I'm pretty sure. Maybe 1998. They projected its opening for alpha testing for 2000. They're still plugging away, 5 years later, announcing the projected opening. Good to know they're consistent, anyway. If they're really lucky, by the time they actually DO open HJ, it won't be so utterly obsolete that no one will bother.

The current HJ is a completely different project. They dropped the first HJ years ago and restarted this one a couple years afterwards.

--matt

[Jazuela]

Yep, it's consistant alright. They did the same with the sorcerer guild, and demonic summoning, three different towns, etc. etc. etc.

The sorc guild as I've heard it was completely changed from what it was intended to be. That was after they opened the building that was originally written by players and then gutted and rewritten, then left to gather dust while they worked on some other stuff instead for a couple of years. Demonic summoning was supposed to be this amazing, innovative, unique coding monstrosity, but from what I've heard, it never really turned out to be what it was intended either. Three towns were started, two of them almost completely built, and two of them were dropped entirely. The third was dumped and rewritten, a few years later.

Consistant? You betcha. That's why most of their players attribute the phrase "REAL SOON NOW" to Simutronics, Inc.

[Ilkidarios]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ July 13 2005,04:29) Although, if you get 10 million dollars in the near future, we should definitely talk. Definitely. Keep me updated on your 8 figure status please. --matt

Definitely, though if I had 10 million dollars I'd hire Howard Scott Warshaw to remake E.T.  Because I could.  Only, I'd give him about twenty years to make the thing and it would be THE GREATEST GAME EVER FASHIONED BY HUMAN HANDS.