[Spoke]

Of all this discussion I can gather a few things:
Derelak and a few others wish to have a term with which to group the type of game of their preference.
These individuals have been using a term (RPI) which now has a meaning that has apparently evolved into something different than originally intended(?).
Some people think their goal is to catalog themselves as better or above other RP(xxx) games or even ARP's.

And more importantly, very little of what is said anymore is new or is beneficial to the discussion.

My question is, would not it be better to wrap up somehow, agree that all you want is a way to group together under a banner and make sure that most people understand what reads in the banner while the rest wants to be left alone when using the RPI char sequence as they understand it? Maybe every 2 weeks or so make a post with the list, or bump the thread that contains the list, or something similar, so that you know people know what you mean ...

Anyway, my last two cents and last ¿contribution? to the thread

[Newworlds]

They already promote themselves on RPIMUD. Why create a new location for this list. RPIMUD is fine, advertise it like any other mud or make a "looking for players thread" promoting RPIMUD.

I personally think Derelak's suggestion of RBM Realism Based MUD is a better distinction but watch out, soon you will have people saying that RBM muds aren't really RBM muds because they lack hair growth, body growth, sickness, defacation, urination, realistic bleeding, paper cuts, etc.

[newbie]

It seems the terms been coined with less intrest in highlighting those of a similar trait but excluding others.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by newbie It seems the terms been coined with less intrest in highlighting those of a similar trait but excluding others.

I'm thinking that is what caused this thread to spiral into destruction.

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Newworlds I'm thinking that is what caused this thread to spiral into destruction.

This thread is thriving on destruction.

[Mabus]

Originally Posted by Delerak This thread is thriving on destruction.

That make it a TDI thread?
(thriving destructive intensive...)

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Mabus That make it a TDI thread? (thriving destructive intensive...)

No you cannot use that acronym. You're so elitist you know that? Come on. There is destruction in plenty of other threads that are just as intensive and thriving. Man, how dare you try to use an acronym like that? Other threads may have a different view, you'd better change it to something else.

[Mabus]

Originally Posted by Delerak No you cannot use that acronym. You're so elitist you know that? Come on. There is destruction in plenty of other threads that are just as intensive and thriving. Man, how dare you try to use an acronym like that? Other threads may have a different view, you'd better change it to something else.

You are right.

I never should have tried to push my definition on others, even though a small few people would agree with it. I guess TDI is just to generic a term, and could be used to discuss about any thread, even without my approval.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Threshold Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No, it's you that's being obtuse by constantly employing straw man arguments like the ones below....

The feature set you cling to as a requirement for "RPI" status has everything to do with PERSONAL PREFERENCE and very little to do with actual role playing.

It's not a personal preference, it's the result of a comparitive analysis of the original games to which the term was applied. I looked at those games, broke down a list of features they shared with one another and features they shared with other games. The resulting feature set was derived from those results.

As for "little to do with actual role playing", the term didn't denote role-playing. Quit bringing up a misinterpretation of the term to attack its accuracy.

The term is horrible, it was horrible from the beginning, and it is a bigger issue now because the generic nature of the term has actually become more widespread than the narrow use that the "RPI MUDs" want it reserved for.

It is an issue for that very reason. In its present (ab)use, the value of the term to really describe anything is all but lost. That's why I believe it's important that this issue be addressed.

No, it isn't perfect. If it was perfect, we wouldn't be having this discussion for 900th time.

It's perfect for people who a) stop to consider the meaning of the term and how it was applied, b) have the English skills to recognize that "intensive" is not an adjective of "role-play" (if it was it would precede, not follow). I think that most people have the latter but fail to consider the former.

You have arbitrarily chosen a suite of features and decided it is what you like best. Those features are chosen based on the personal preferences of the people who made the "First 3 RPIs."

I haven't arbitrarily chosen anything. The term was first used to describe those games. In doing so, that "arbitrarly chosen suite of features" was part of the definition of the term, though those features were never clearly delineated. But those features were present in all three and thus form the basis for the differentiation from other games to which the term applied.

ARP - Armageddon style RP.

Armageddon has features (and a lack thereof) that are not found in the other two RPI codebases (or as many as five if you chose to differentiate the FEM, SoI RPI Engine and Argila from the original Harshlands code). The group to which the term RPI applied can be broken down further by saying "Armageddon-type RPI" or "Harshlands-type RPI" and so forth to further denote the specific approaches to the implementation of that feature set they share as well as to denote the variations in other aspects (for example, the original Harshlands code didn't feature ranged weapons or accounts).

So few people play RPIs that most people didn't know about it or care for a long time. But as the years went by, the term slowly reached the mainstream and took on a more accurate and general meaning.

Again, it didn't take on a more accurate meaning, it took on a more confused meaning because as it's used now, there are really no commonalities in the games calling themselves "RPI".

That said, a group of players and administrators got together a few weeks back and performed another comparitive analysis of the shared features of RPIs. We put together a list of 18 (though further research on my part revealed one more, or more precisely the absence of an old H&S feature, that had been overlooked). I was going to post them with this message but in looking just now I realize the log is on the computer downstairs so I'll do it next time I post since I have a lot of forum catching up to do and I've been on my ankles too much today already (been busy for the last couple weeks and if the discussion on the visually-impaired is any indicator, there may be some other good topics to read).

Take care,

Jason

[Newworlds]

OMG, you must be kidding Prof1515? This thread has been done for two weeks. I think you just want to keep it alive for silly reasons.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Newworlds OMG, you must be kidding Prof1515? This thread has been done for two weeks. I think you just want to keep it alive for silly reasons.

And you would be wrong. I simply responded to a thread where I would have posted a rebuttal two weeks ago if other stuff hadn't distracted me.

Take care,

Jason

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Newworlds OMG, you must be kidding Prof1515? This thread has been done for two weeks. I think you just want to keep it alive for silly reasons.

Whatever dude. Nobody checks every forums they post on every single day. Well, not me and probably not prof. You're the reason I don't want people using RPI to label their muds.

[Newworlds]

Pfffft,

It is more likely that RPI has now been tagged as something most would keep clear of because of this thread and the lameness thereof. Even labling yourself as RPI I think now has a bad taste to it. NW, is not an RPI it is an IRP.

Get it right.

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Newworlds Pfffft, It is more likely that RPI has now been tagged as something most would keep clear of because of this thread and the lameness thereof. Even labling yourself as RPI I think now has a bad taste to it. NW, is not an RPI it is an IRP. Get it right.

It doesn't matter what it is. It's the fact that you're trying to "one-up" those muds who came up with a completely new term and system for mudding. Regardless of all the bantering that has gone on, your side will always look worse then ours because we at least have the decency to try and talk things out, no matter how arrogant I seem, I'm willing to listen to reason, but you guys just want to cry and whine about each and every single word that gets used without any real concrete arguements except that "We have intensive roleplay too." which means nothing since roleplay intensive mud never made reference that you don't, we just have features that force a more intensive roleplaying environment.

[obit]

Yes, well FARTSMOGs are the future of text-based gaming, like it or not. :)
SPace Combat Simulator

[Delerak]

Yes it is.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Delerak ...we just have features that force a more intensive roleplaying environment.

Again, that is a supposition and a poor one Delerak and the basis for disagreement with you. There is no proof, fact, or even fiction that dictates any of your features result in a "more intensive roleplaying environment."

All of your features and your claim to RPI is entirely subjective. The only thing RBM/MUSHI/RPI/ARP/ says for you is "we're different, we have these 10 (or 20) features other muds do not. That's it. Stop pretending that it means more than just that.

[Voidrider]

Although it isn't about text-based online games, I had to laugh when I recently saw that a new label has surfaced on a website dedicated to role-playing in the upcoming Age of Conan mmo called "serious" rp.

Apparently, it isn't enough for there to be RP-oriented guilds in the game and some are calling themselves Serious RP clans. It kinda makes me want to make a clan called "Clowns" and have everyone take silly names but still RP their characters (but, yeah, I know that would be griefing, which, of course, makes it even more funny - a bunch of clowns "griefing" :P).

Ah, the process of labelling, gotta love it.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Voidrider Although it isn't about text-based online games, I had to laugh when I recently saw that a new label has surfaced on a website dedicated to role-playing in the upcoming Age of Conan mmo called "serious" rp. Apparently, it isn't enough for there to be RP-oriented guilds in the game and some are calling themselves Serious RP clans. It kinda makes me want to make a clan called "Clowns" and have everyone take silly names but still RP their characters (but, yeah, I know that would be griefing, which, of course, makes it even more funny - a bunch of clowns "griefing" :P). Ah, the process of labelling, gotta love it.

Bahahaha. Classic.

[Threshold]

Since you guys insist on resurrecting this thread, and continuing to try and jam your personal preferences and elitism down everyone else's throat, I felt it was important to quote the best post so far yet on this issue:

Originally Posted by Mabus Originally Posted by Delerak No you cannot use that acronym. You're so elitist you know that? Come on. There is destruction in plenty of other threads that are just as intensive and thriving. Man, how dare you try to use an acronym like that? Other threads may have a different view, you'd better change it to something else. You are right. I never should have tried to push my definition on others, even though a small few people would agree with it. I guess TDI is just to generic a term, and could be used to discuss about any thread, even without my approval.

Owned.

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Threshold Since you guys insist on resurrecting this thread, and continuing to try and jam your personal preferences and elitism down everyone else's throat, I felt it was important to quote the best post so far yet on this issue: Owned.

You just proved my and everyone elses point..

[Newworlds]

The IRP Mud Ring is now accepting applications.

If you wish your mud to be listed as a member of the Intensive Role Play (IRP) Mud Ring, please mail send a private message to newworlds.

Thank you and good day!

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Newworlds The IRP Mud Ring is now accepting applications. If you wish your mud to be listed as a member of the Intensive Role Play (IRP) Mud Ring, please mail send a private message to newworlds. Thank you and good day!

Ridiculous.

[Fifi]

Not ridiculous. If we can draw a distinction between IRP and RPI and everyone is happy, it's wonderful.

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Fifi Not ridiculous. If we can draw a distinction between IRP and RPI and everyone is happy, it's wonderful.

If in fact that's the goal, but I don't think it is. If we can all decide that RPI = A set of features that mud users want and IRP = The quality of roleplay that a mud thinks it has. Then so be it. But until people can admit that the adjective use of Intensive is not in regards to the roleplay but moreover at this point in regards to the set of features that a mud has, that won't happen.

[newbie]

The problem dosen't arise with our definition of RPI, but with the common concept of what RPI stands for to the majority of mud players and before entering this discussion I was of the opinon that IRP and RPI meant the same thing.

[Milawe]

Originally Posted by newbie The problem dosen't arise with our definition of RPI, but with the common concept of what RPI stands for to the majority of mud players and before entering this discussion I was of the opinon that IRP and RPI meant the same thing.

That's what spawned this entire discussion in the first place. A player posted requesting that he wanted an RPI and listed a bunch of features he was looking for. He got flamed for thinking that those features were an RPI. He simply thought that he was requesting a mud where the roleplay was intensive (I'm guessing strictly enforced) and thought that's what RPI stood for. I spent a lot of time thinking RPI stood for the same thing as well but simply never bothered to tack it onto our mud simply because I thought it was just the newest trendy acronym.

Once this discussion dies off, a bunch of players will simply go back to thinking that RPI stands for roleplay intensive mud, and I'm sure this will crop up again, especially with the rather vague definition of RPI that still exists for any site that sports the tag.

[Fifi]

I'd really like to see IRP become a more prevailant acronym, as it solves the problem of people feeling like they're cut off from a phrase they feel expresses what they do, while allowing RPI's to continue to call themselves RPI. Again, I don't care what they're called as long as they are called something and I can find them, and in one glance exclude anything that doesn't have the features I need in order to have a satisfactory mudding experience.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Fifi I'd really like to see IRP become a more prevailant acronym, as it solves the problem of people feeling like they're cut off from a phrase they feel expresses what they do, while allowing RPI's to continue to call themselves RPI. Again, I don't care what they're called as long as they are called something and I can find them, and in one glance exclude anything that doesn't have the features I need in order to have a satisfactory mudding experience.

Join the IRP Mud Ring. It is really the true designation for Intensive Roleplaying Muds and those in the Mud Ring will work to keep the acronym alive and well.

[Jazuela]

Originally Posted by Newworlds Join the IRP Mud Ring. It is really the true designation for Intensive Roleplaying Muds and those in the Mud Ring will work to keep the acronym alive and well.

I've no interest in any games like yours. If you include your own game in the category of IRP, then I definitely am NOT looking for an IRP. I'm looking for something that fits similar criteria of what Fifi is looking for, what Delerak has outlined, what several of us have attempted to describe. Come up with a name for that category, exclude yourself from it, and let me know when the name is ready for people to use.