[Bakha]

Originally Posted by MudMann Atonement sounds awesome, and from the guest login wandering and the stories on the website drips atmosphere and potential, but why plug a game that isnt actually accepting new players at the moment.. thats like dangling a carrot and when the donkey goes for a bite he smashes his nose on the bulletproof (donkey proof?) glass that is in the way Oh, and now I am older and more patient, I will give Arm another go, just re-reading all the docs... again BUT liking the games and being impressed with them as I do love RP and a good read does not mean I think it is fair for them to keep the term RPI as their own

It's really a great game, but it does have a steep learning curve. My main advice: focus on interaction and RP. If you get bored and can't find anything to do, it's better to log off than just go exploring or adventuring. Once you get some interaction and join a group, then things become much better. It's a steep learning curve, and having some support helps. Also try to contact a helper on the General Discussion Board (or there may be some ingame method to do so these days... not sure). The reason I was able to finally succeed in the game was that a veteran player I knew helped me along with advice and encouragement OOC.

[DonathinFrye]

Atonement supports a very detailed, non-linear storyline that is spread over Wikipedia Documentation, Short Stories and many, many logs of major in-game events on the website. It's always my wish that new players come prepared to the game, to help ease the learning curve that exists for all RPIs; by throwing its name out there now, I'm hopeful that new folks will come with a firm understanding of the gameworld by the time we re-open this Fall. Part of what makes a veteran a veteran on an RPI is that they have been around long enough to absorb the intricacies of the gameworld and its canon; encouraging potential new players to read before they leap is an effort to help make it easier for them to become veteran players of the future.

On another note, I'll repeat what I think that I said a long time ago; I don't really care who calls their game an RPI. I think that it has the potential to confuse a large niche of players who have preconceived notions about what an 'RPI' should be, but the name of your game is ultimately not much more than the cover sheet of its marketing plan. IRE claims to have the most in-depth roleplay and complex player-killing in the universe; just because I heartily disagree with this statement does not mean that they don't have the right to advertise whatever they would like to help bring folks to their games. When I first started playing IRE, I quit shortly after I realized that it was not what I thought that it was going to be; if a player is looking for a new RPI and plays a game calling itself an RPI that doesn't fit their pre-conceived notions, they will either be happy with the game or unhappy with their expectations not being met. It's not a judgement on which approach to design is better, in my mind. Players can make up their own minds, and it's simply not something that deserves to be continually argued over.

[Justin534]

This is quite the thread, and you'll have to forgive me if this has been covered already and point me in the direction to where it was discussed.

Near the beginning (of the thread not the universe ) it was mentioned that the best RPI's of today are nothing compared to the worst RPI's of the past. What exactly is meant by this? Is it in regards to coded features or the caliber of RP? Can anyone give any specific examples of what a good RPI looked like years ago compared to the not so great RPI of today?

Thanks!

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Justin534 This is quite the thread, and you'll have to forgive me if this has been covered already and point me in the direction to where it was discussed. Near the beginning (of the thread not the universe ) it was mentioned that the best RPI's of today are nothing compared to the worst RPI's of the past. What exactly is meant by this? Is it in regards to coded features or the caliber of RP? Can anyone give any specific examples of what a good RPI looked like years ago compared to the not so great RPI of today? Thanks!

Staff who understood the game world
Staff who were capable of running RPTs
Staff who were willing to run RPTs
Players who understood the game world
Higher standards for RP
Greater enforcement of IC setting
Greater enforcement of OOC rules
Less tolerance of H&Sers
Less tolerance of twinks
Less tolerance of players who are unwilling to learn and/or adapt to the setting
Less emphasis on playerbase numbers and greater emphasis on the above

Those are just a quick few off the top of my head.

[DonathinFrye]

Originally Posted by prof1515 Staff who understood the game world Staff who were capable of running RPTs Staff who were willing to run RPTs Players who understood the game world Higher standards for RP Greater enforcement of IC setting Greater enforcement of OOC rules Less tolerance of H&Sers Less tolerance of twinks Less tolerance of players who are unwilling to learn and/or adapt to the setting Less emphasis on playerbase numbers and greater emphasis on the above Those are just a quick few off the top of my head.

Just to note, I definitely disagree that this is true for ALL new RPIs. For Atonement, I believe that precisely the opposite is true for most of these points.

[Justin534]

So then I assume there is not general agreement then that the "Best" RPI's of today are worse of then the lowest caliber of RPIs of the past?

[DonathinFrye]

Originally Posted by Justin534 So then I assume there is not general agreement then that the "Best" RPI's of today are worse of then the lowest caliber of RPIs of the past?

Yeah, I'd say that that is correct. Beyond regards towards points involving subject things, such as the quality of staff or roleplay, the quality of code and features on Atonement - and SOI/ARM, to a lesser degree - is unquestionably improved these days.

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by Justin534 So then I assume there is not general agreement then that the "Best" RPI's of today are worse of then the lowest caliber of RPIs of the past?

Only if you think Prof is credible. I think he's not. I have played an RPI for about eight years, and in some ways it is better and in some ways it is worse, but over all, people are still showing up and playing hard.

Eight years ago, we still had random idiots behaving idiotically.

When I was in the military we had a saying: The best duty station is the one you're going to, and the one you just left.

[Fifi]

Besides that, even if it were true, that everything was wonderful and perfect at the muds the detractors played at when they played at them, and they're all crap now, unless you can time travel, what difference does it make? You can play what's available or not play at all.

[Justin534]

Originally Posted by Fifi Besides that, even if it were true, that everything was wonderful and perfect at the muds the detractors played at when they played at them, and they're all crap now, unless you can time travel, what difference does it make? You can play what's available or not play at all.

Agreed just trying to get a feel for what exactly it is that makes people feel they're so much worse off these days...and I guess in the end people are referring to the quality of RP and staff contribution to enhancement of the RP experience. Is that about the jist of it?

[Fifi]

That is the jist of it.

[Justin534]

I have to say I've really only played on 2 MU*s ever. The one I'm currently playing on, Harshlands, and a very old now defunct MUSH called Atlantis that I probably played on about 10 or so years ago. The one thing I loved about it was the even though its player base was small it was more than made up for by the admins, and as far as I could tell there were only 2. What I loved is that I could see if they were available for RP purposes using the +who, were as on Harshlands admins never appear on the who so I have no idea if anyone is available to be petitioned for RP.

Don't get me wrong I really like the MUD so far, but in my mind it doesn't compare yet to Atlantis. I loved the fact to that if I wanted to do something that wasn't hard coded in the admins would do a skill check and see what the results were from there. One example was that I had fairly high level skill in electronics, or something of that nature, and there were 2 pirates wanted with a reward for anyone that could bring them in. There weren't any tracking devices programmed into the game so I petitioned an admin based on my skills to create a tracking device which I planted on one of the pirates. I also converted one of the torpedoes into a bomb so I could destroy their sumbarine at the dock, then I was collaborating as best I could with one of the main police force captains. I had both sides convinced I was on their side, but the captain didn't know I had infiltrated and was on friendly terms with them.

We all somehow ended up in one room together myself and the two pirates were in there at first, then the police captain came an and one of the pirates pulled his gun on the captain, the captain pulled his gun, then both sides were telling me to pull out my gun and point it at the other side and soon everyone had a gun pointed at each other.

...In the end one of the pirates escaped, the other was captured - he went on trial and was put to death and the other pirate came in a day or two later to the lounge I was at with a bomb strapped to his chest and commited suicide attempting to take me with him, which he wasn't succesful at.

It was really exciting and great fun which I've yet to be able to replicate on another MU*

[Delerak]

It's all numbers. It wasn't nearly as noticeable Fifi because the playerbases were much smaller back in the day. Therefore new players were given far more attention by the veterans of the mud and were able to learn. Instead nowadays the new players are teaching the new players. So the playerbase as a whole develops bad habits and it permeates into the staff ranks as well because.. well staff come from the pbase. That's my logic anyway.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Fifi Only if you think Prof is credible. I think he's not. I have played an RPI for about eight years, and in some ways it is better and in some ways it is worse, but over all, people are still showing up and playing hard. Eight years ago, we still had random idiots behaving idiotically. When I was in the military we had a saying: The best duty station is the one you're going to, and the one you just left.

It all comes down to several factors. First, the question has to be asked if you've even played an RPI before given the degree of abuse to which the term is subject to by various games (coincidently beginning about eight years ago). Can't tell you how many times people have commented on RPIs without having ever even played one. Even if you have, if you've only been playing RPIs for eight years then you started as they were beginning to go downhill.

Second, you have to have been involved enough, knowledgeable enough and experienced enough to recognize a decline. Limited knowledge, experience and involvement might not see that which someone with far more of each would. My perspective comes from my experiences with RPIs as a player starting in 1999 and as an admin starting in 2004 as well as from conversations with a variety of players and admins whose experience predates mine by many years.

Finally, there's the need for objective observation. To players playing a game, there's an emotional attachment which has to be removed from the equation before an assessment is likely to carry any accuracy. It's difficult to do, especially with MUDs where loyalty tends to cloud people's impression of their game or other games. My overwhelming cynicism tends to counter that a bit but I'd be lying if I said I didn't once have a higher opinion of the RPIs than I do today. Over time I learned more and more about them and saw more and more problems with them. While I still think they have incredible potential, my overall view of them is no where near as positive as it once was.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Justin534 So then I assume there is not general agreement then that the "Best" RPI's of today are worse of then the lowest caliber of RPIs of the past?

No there's not a general agreement. However, I suspect that the vast majority of the "it's just as good" camp does not have the perspective from which to make any valid assessment. If someone does not have data either from direct observation or research from which to understand what was from what is they can not be expected to make an accurate comparison and assessment regarding the differences between the past and present.

You cite Harshlands. While I can't comment on the game today via direct observation, I can from as recent as last year from several friends who played it until then. When I first started playing in 1999 I was impressed with everything but its playerbase size which was extremely small. After a couple years holding at the same levels, the game picked up more and more over players but my observation of them was that a lot of them were of a lower quality than those I'd encountered prior. By 2004 and 2005 I noticed a distinct influx of players that, to put it nicely, sucked. By the time I left in 2007 my view of Harshlands was quite low. Likewise, I learned more about the operation on the staff side and saw more and more examples of things like favoritism. With that knowledge, I was able to look back on the previous 8 years of experience with the game and see the evidence of it that at the time had escaped my notice. This most certainly did nothing to boost my impression of the game.

Following a series of completely unacceptable events involving players who had no business on the game (my experience with these players was not the first; I have no fewer than four prior examples of similar behavior by them either through my direct observation or from accounts by others) I left the game as did a couple other people who equally found the events unacceptable. A few others stuck with it for a months or years longer but most eventually quit as well, citing the decline in the playerbase and the problems with staff behavior as the cause.

Hence my perspective on the quality of the game is the result of multiple avenues of observation and data. The conclusions of this observation and analysis of information left me with a very negative view of the game. To put it in numeric terms, if my best exprience with the game was say 95 out of 100, by the time I left I would have given it something in the low 30s. From friends who continued to play after I and others left in 2007, it sounds like it only got worse especially since many of the players who were responsible for the shreds of respect that I still had for the game have since left as well. I have very little data from after 2009 because those friends eventually threw in the towel on the game as well. Conversations with former staff and players from the years prior to my playing the game revealed that the seeds of what I finally experienced were already germinating even before I started playing but that they only grew more and more pronounced on the player side of the game over time.

Now, to a player who didn't have either the experience of playing the game long enough or the willingness to step back and observe rather than blindly remain blissfully ignorant, none of that would be apparent. I didn't see it all when a couple players left before I did though their observations made me more attentive and it was then that I did begin to see the problems on the staff side. I had long been observing the problems on the player side since I tend to be a stickler in regard to player responsibilities be it in regard to knowledge of the game world or adherence to the setting, etc. (I was a harsh twink-buster during my time on SoI's staff).

That's just the case with Harshlands. My observations are not limited to that game alone but to nearly every RPI that ever opened (I'm excluding a few that only opened for beta testing). I'd wager that most if not all of the players who don't see the decline in quality on both sides of the RPIs fit the above statement regarding lack of experience or unwillingness to observe.

[scandum]

Originally Posted by Qzzrbl A few posts goes on about soft fiction and magic etc., etc. (Which isn't really at all close the question posed in the OP.

I dislike soft fiction settings, so that definitely turns me off from most RP MUDs, which was the generic question in the OP.

The dismissive attitude toward the concept of hard and soft fiction by you and prof is interesting. I can only assume that Armageddon's game world and game physics are soft as the game is inspired by Dark Sun. The softer the fiction the more lore is required to be learned by heart as, with increasing softness, logic becomes increasingly useless.

An illusion of hardness can be perceived if enough people belief in the same nonsense (the belief in God is a good rl example where soft illogical fiction can be perceived as reality), which would explain why the loss of veterans is a big problem; as veterans can be compared to priest who teach people the right way to interpret the vague or incomplete scriptures, help files in this case.

Then again, I guess there's nothing that stops RP from getting intense in an unrealistic and inconsistent roleplaying environment, but that kind of obsoletes the RPI concept. Perhaps all you really need is a bunch of nazis in charge who keep the players in check.

[Delerak]

I would prefer nazi's keeping the players in check rather than giving players complete freedom to do whatever they want. Roleplaying needs to be defined on an RPI, it can't be loosely interpreted because you don't want to 'offend' players. Tough love so to speak.

[Bakha]

Originally Posted by Justin534 Agreed just trying to get a feel for what exactly it is that makes people feel they're so much worse off these days...and I guess in the end people are referring to the quality of RP and staff contribution to enhancement of the RP experience. Is that about the jist of it?

I staffed on and played Armageddon for years. I suspect that the source of much of the "RPIs have gone downhill" argument is based in nostalgia, not empirical evidence or even reality. That being said, I don't play at all anymore, so I admit that I can't speak from experience. I do occasionally read the Armageddon discussion boards, and it doesn't appear that much has changed judging from the, admittedly inadequate, snapshot of the boards.

And prof: FiFi plays on Armageddon, I believe.

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Bakha I staffed on and played Armageddon for years. I suspect that the source of much of the "RPIs have gone downhill" argument is based in nostalgia, not empirical evidence or even reality. That being said, I don't play at all anymore, so I admit that I can't speak from experience. I do occasionally read the Armageddon discussion boards, and it doesn't appear that much has changed judging from the, admittedly inadequate, snapshot of the boards. And prof: FiFi plays on Armageddon, I believe.

Well I just took a peak and now you can't play slaves anymore. If you enslave PCs they are instantly stored? That doesn't sound much like the old days. Back in the day if you were enslaved you dealt with it. Sure you could choose to retire the PC but most players wouldn't do that and would go with whatever happens ICly.

[Bakha]

Originally Posted by Delerak Well I just took a peak and now you can't play slaves anymore. If you enslave PCs they are instantly stored? That doesn't sound much like the old days. Back in the day if you were enslaved you dealt with it. Sure you could choose to retire the PC but most players wouldn't do that and would go with whatever happens ICly.

The slave role has always been problematic, and there have been issues with it off and on for years. It's not the first time that the slave role has been taken off the table, so it's not like this is some new sign of the degradation of RP. You also seem to be missing the harshness as much as the RP quality.

I definitely agree that Armageddon has gotten less harsh as time has gone on. There was a time when twinks ran around killing people randomly while chalking it up to "RP." Complaints about said twinkiness to staff were dealt with through a response of, "It's a harsh world. Get over it." This doesn't mean that the RP quality was better back then, though.

[Justin534]

ROFLs @ twinkiness

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Bakha The slave role has always been problematic, and there have been issues with it off and on for years. It's not the first time that the slave role has been taken off the table, so it's not like this is some new sign of the degradation of RP. You also seem to be missing the harshness as much as the RP quality.

I played a Borsaili slave that had about 20 days racked up on him and I think he worked out just fine. I think the problem was current PCs being enslaved and valuing "freedom" so much that they would just retire instantly. I think that's a cop out though and if you're unwilling to take the consequences of things you do with your character you shouldn't be playing an RPI.

[Bakha]

Originally Posted by Delerak I played a Borsaili slave that had about 20 days racked up on him and I think he worked out just fine. I think the problem was current PCs being enslaved and valuing "freedom" so much that they would just retire instantly. I think that's a cop out though and if you're unwilling to take the consequences of things you do with your character you shouldn't be playing an RPI.

The slave role did work out fine for some. For others (and not just bad roleplayers), it was a miserable experience. I remember at one time the staff disallowed people to even special app to play slaves because the role could turn into a boring and even unplayable one even for players who actually wanted to play the slave concept.

We're pretty off track with the discussion on slavery, though. I still maintain that much of the perceived degradation of RPI quality is nothing more than the age old "kids these days suck" from the old guard.

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Bakha We're pretty off track with the discussion on slavery, though. I still maintain that much of the perceived degradation of RPI quality is nothing more than the age old "kids these days suck" from the old guard.

Fair enough I respect your opinion. But you can't deny the fact that RPI's (or Arm if you prefer), have changed their policies so much that the old ways of playing are gone. A perfect example for Arm is that Staff never animate clan NPCs anymore. All of the communication with the "uppers" of the clans must be done through update e-mails. To me this detracts from possible roleplay opportunities which really drove Arm a few years back. As much as I disliked Halaster, when I as in the militia and he jumped into the Red Robe templar to roleplay with us I loved it. It's that interaction that the mud really was about I think. Sending in OOC updates about IC happenings just seems so.. degrading to an RPI.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Bakha I staffed on and played Armageddon for years. I suspect that the source of much of the "RPIs have gone downhill" argument is based in nostalgia, not empirical evidence or even reality. That being said, I don't play at all anymore, so I admit that I can't speak from experience. I do occasionally read the Armageddon discussion boards, and it doesn't appear that much has changed judging from the, admittedly inadequate, snapshot of the boards.

Armageddon is in a way an anomoly in that pattern but that's because Arm has always had a bipolar nature in regard to RP. On one hand you have excellent RP that goes on in the clans and the like. On the other hand, you have aspects of the game, the "out of the city"

I definitely agree that Armageddon has gotten less harsh as time has gone on. There was a time when twinks ran around killing people randomly while chalking it up to "RP." Complaints about said twinkiness to staff were dealt with through a response of, "It's a harsh world. Get over it." This doesn't mean that the RP quality was better back then, though.

It was this staff attitude which always relegated Arm to the bottom of the RPIs on my list. Even if it contained the best RP out there, that was offset by the presence of people who didn't RP at all. Think of it this way: if half the students in the class get 100% A's on their test and the other half get 0% F's, the class average is 50% which is still an F, not a C average. While Arm was so black-and-white 50/50, the non-RPing PKers definitely brought the average way down.

By contrast, I never had that experience on the other RPIs for a long time but over time saw more and more of it. So perhaps because it was possible to always encounter that on Arm, nothing may have changed but it definitely did elsewhere. I first saw it while on SoI and frequently voiced my dissatisfaction with the "more players is better" philosophy if it meant easing tight controls on strict RP in-game. I really saw the decline on HL which coupled with my health problems made me dread more and more logging in and playing. I made one last effort at it and I knew going into that evening that the outcome would probably determine whether I'd stick with the game or walk away forever. As it turned out, I walked away forever and with good cause: the sort of attitude you mention above.

If Arm has indeed begun to crack down on such behavior then that's a great achievement on their part and a worthwhile indicator that they're not succumbing to the problems other RPIs have faced in regard to lower standards. Kudos to Arm!

And prof: FiFi plays on Armageddon, I believe.

My comment wasn't directed solely at FiFi but rather a reminder that in any circumstance one must keep several questions in mind regarding the perspective of any comment.

[Justin534]

I've seen a lot of posts where people tend to say that MUSHes have very little in the way of code. I found this interesting as my experience with MUSHes is that they have very deeply coded systems. Especially, when looking at something like HSPACE

having to type in exact commands in order to see someone's misspelled text approximation of what "crafting" an object should look like, and not being able to slow actions down enough to emote something interesting and personal in the midst of the game's stock emits gets old very fast. I think that code is vital for conflict resolution...

Very well said. For me it seems that some MUDs use code to completely replace the GM rather then supplement the GM. The game ends up looking and feeling like a game and less like an experience. Everything you do feels like you the player did it, but your character didn't have much to do with it. I think often times code is used to the detriment of creating a rich immersive RP atmosphere, and creates an environment that, even though OOC forms of communication have been eliminated, the experience feels very OOCy in itself.

Moreover, not being able to simultaneously interact with the player as well as the character takes out a lot of the fun for me

Agreed, I've yet to understand why RPI's completely eliminate global OOC channels with allowing the option for them to be toggled on/off. In my experience OOC forms of communication haven't done anything to hinder RP, as long as it is established that OOC communication is strictly OOC. Global OOC channels have, in my opinion, also helped a great deal to create and foster an overall MUD-wide sense of community among players and staff. I think it also helps with lowering any degree of resentment that might arise between players as it helps to draw a clearer line between the players and their characters. With OOC communication its possible for a two player's characters to be mortal enemies, but allow the players to be buddies on OOC terms. If you get rid of OOC communication any resentment that arises encompasses both player-player resentment and character-character resentment.

edit: yikes these forums confuse me half the time...this post was in response to a post near the beginning of this thread, which before logging in looked like it was more recent.

[HAL]

Originally Posted by jackal59mo2 The limitations of the code (especially the clumsy and limited speech/emote code) on the RPIs I played made "immersion" impossible for me. Having to justify eating for the third time in the middle of a scene, having to type in exact commands in order to see someone's misspelled text approximation of what "crafting" an object should look like, and not being able to slow actions down enough to emote something interesting and personal in the midst of the game's stock emits gets old very fast. I think that code is vital for conflict resolution, but for me attempts to code a simulation of reality on RPIs always come off as the worst of both worlds: not real enough to be believable, and not game-like and silly enough to be enjoyed just for themselves.

Definitely an interesting perspective! I guess I've gotten used to the DIKU variant of emotes and speech code, so that I find natural and flexible. I have attempted to play Armageddon on occasion, as I keep hearing interesting things, and their emote system continues to keep me at arms length, unfortunately. I see where you are coming from, however.

Originally Posted by jackal59mo2 Also, in time I found the "no OOC" rules on most RPIs to be major irritants. They do not help people stay "immersed" in the game. Instead, those who want to cheat do it outside the game where they're less likely to be caught, while those who have trouble distinguishing play time from real life and their characters from themselves find institutional support for indulging in all sorts of whacked out self-insertion and OOC dramatics in response to IC events. Moreover, not being able to simultaneously interact with the player as well as the character takes out a lot of the fun for me. I still don't like a lot of OOC chatter, but a little bit of OOC communication at the time can make scenes more challenging and more enjoyable. At its best, there is more of a sense of playing for each other when you can have that sort of communication. RPIs--especially ones where the culture encourages "solo RP" for crafting/practicing in order to advance skills and levels--feel a lot more like playing by myself, but with additional "RP" restrictions that prevent me from just playing with the environment for the fun of it.

This is an interesting perspective. I've found that the majority of our players would find it incredibly jarring for someone to OOCly talk about something else in the middle of an intense scene. But then again, we have a live chat that is available outside of the game for players to use.

I do agree with you, that people who want to cheat will do so outside of the game where they are less likely to be caught, and the folks who try and learn the code and other OOC intensive bits about the mud suffer for it. We had some trouble players who knew the combat code left, right, backwards and forwards, coordinated OOCly, and we had to deal with the results.

Originally Posted by jackal59mo2 One final thing about supposedly keeping OOC completely out of the game: If I find out on a MUSH or MUX that almost every one of the powerful and influential characters in the game is the alt of a staff member and that each member of staff has three, four, or more alts, experience tells me that I want to run for the door as fast as I can. Because there's not that sort "OOC secrecy" on those games, I can usually find out pretty quickly if that's the case; frequently, I can find out without even logging in. However, it was only when I became staff on an RPI after nine months of playing that I discovered that was the case and that one of the main staff duties was to hang around invisible in public areas waiting for swat people for whispering OOC stuff like "I'm going to go out and fight the X later, want to come?" to each other. That's not the atmosphere in which I want to play, and it's the one that IC/OOC separation can foster. At least on more open games, problems are much less easily hidden and not justified under some rubric of "immersion" or "role playing."

I find that forums, chats, and other OOC resources help raise the barrier between IC and OOC, simply because people are so aware of it. You chat on the forum as a player, you play IG as a character, if you blend those, there are penalties. Information as well is limited as to what can be talked to on the forums, but having things like, "Event at 12 noon tomorrow to hunt X," is perfectly fine.

I've had the same experience with staff Alts. I've never seen a staffer that can do a completely 100% job at keeping their character experience outside of their staffer work. We allow staff alts, but restrict them to a low level, and really avoid them becoming any sort of clan leadership.

Originally Posted by jackal59mo2 I know play on much more lightly coded MUSHes/MUXes (with some brief forays into heavily coded MOOs like Hell just for the fun of it), and I have a hard time imagining going back to the restrictions of an RPI MUD.

I've been in the same boat when looking at MUSHes, the lack of code makes it hard to imagine playing them, for me personally. Though I keep hearing fantastic thing.

[Newworlds]

Hey HAL,

You do realize that post was over a year old and in the midst of a long topic? Took me awhile to even find out who you were replying to and why.

[HAL]

I was not aware, apologies for necro-ing a thread! Ah, I saw the month date, but not the year.

Reading more deeply into the original posts, it's actually a surreal experience, as now I'm the game director of Atonement.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by HAL I was not aware, apologies for necro-ing a thread! Ah, I saw the month date, but not the year. Reading more deeply into the original posts, it's actually a surreal experience, as now I'm the game director of Atonement.

No worries. Congrats on taking over game direction on Atonement. If memory serves I believe Atonement is the only game of that genre I would consider recommending.