[the_logos]

Achaea implemented a comprehensive system of furniture for player houses today. You can find details in the following files:

Furniture Overview
Furniture Selection
Furniture Pricing
Furniture Commands
Furniture Decay

Enjoy! Expansions to the furniture system, which is already wildly popular, are being worked on even now.

--matt

[Aztecia]

Very, very impressive.

Bring on the rocking chairs!

[bbg]

I would like to know the reason for not being able to move or sell your furniture, or even give it to a friend...

[Ilkidarios]

I noticed features like this were already being implemented in Imperian. Did you decide to put furniture in Achea during production of Imperian, or did the idea strike you after you observed furniture and its use in Imperian first?

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Ilkidarios @ Mar. 18 2005,21:52) I noticed features like this were already being implemented in Imperian.  Did you decide to put furniture in Achea during production of Imperian, or did the idea strike you after you observed furniture and its use in Imperian first?

Naah, just one of those things we've wanted to put in for years and only recently got around to it. Some systems are kind of no-brainers if we have time to implement them.

--matt

[pwyll]

Originally Posted by (bbg @ Mar. 18 2005,00:10) I would like to know the reason for not being able to move or sell your furniture, or even give it to a friend... Â

Clearly this is another attempt by Logos to bilk people out of money. Everyone knows that you go through a process of moving things a little to each side and back again or against different walls when attempting to create a dwelling that reflects ones discerning taste.

Logos knows that persons with a refined sense of aesthetics will be forced to buy credits and sell some off for in game gold in order to purchase another dwelling and additional furniture to create an acceptable living environment rather than live in a house with a substandard use of space.

And think of the indignity one will be exposed to having to allow workmen into ones home to reupholster furniture when the fabrics and designs become passe simply because the pieces can not be removed.

Also, for as much as Logos is against the theft of intellectual property, he doesn't seem to have any compunction against stealing furniture design. He has clearly stolen or at least borrowed extremely heavily from Ethan Allen Furniture's colonial and early European period collections.

I am gaining an increased appreciation for the reasons why people find IRE an intolerable presence on these forums.

[Ilkidarios]

Originally Posted by (bbg @ Mar. 18 2005,00:10) I would like to know the reason for not being able to move or sell your furniture, or even give it to a friend...

Why would you need to give someone furniture?
Guy A: Happy Logosmas! Here's a chair!
Guy B: What? No clothes, or maybe a sword? Just the... The chair? Thanks... Now I can... Sit... On the battlefield...

But in all seriousness, you'd have to drop a lot of gold on a chair and just to give it to your friend is kind of a waste. A true MUD friend is one who doesn't always ask you for stuff of value for free all the time.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by And think of the indignity one will be exposed to having to allow workmen into ones home to reupholster furniture when the fabrics and designs become passe simply because the pieces can not be removed.

Well, we run the home decorators union so this is all part of our careful plot. More money for the workmen = more graft for IRE. In the rough and tumble business of text MUDs, unions just can't get away without paying protection money these days. I sometimes pine for the halcyon days of yore when drivebys and bombings weren't so much a part of MUDs.

Originally Posted by Also, for as much as Logos is against the theft of intellectual property, he doesn't seem to have any compunction against stealing furniture design. He has clearly stolen or at least borrowed extremely heavily from Ethan Allen Furniture's colonial and early European period collections.

*Peer* Get out of my head. We were joking about doing a deal with Ethan Allen to put Ethan Allen branded furniture into Achaea just 2 days ago!

Originally Posted by I am gaining an increased appreciation for the reasons why people find IRE an intolerable presence on these forums.

Just wait until we implement our system for window dressings. Then the outrage will really begin.

--matt

[Yui Unifex]

Originally Posted by (Aztecia @ Mar. 17 2005,12:11) Very, very impressive. Bring on the rocking chairs!

Yeah, wow...

I mean, wow.

Furniture. I can hardly contain myself.

[Threshold]

You people are unbelieveable.

[WarHound]

Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 20 2005,00:50) You people are unbelieveable.

[Aztecia]

Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ Mar. 19 2005,23:10) Originally Posted by (Aztecia @ Mar. 17 2005,12:11) Very, very impressive. Bring on the rocking chairs! Yeah, wow... I mean, wow. Furniture. I can hardly contain myself.

Sorry. But I enjoy Achaea very much, even to get all excitable over the little things like this - considering this is a change I have been waiting a couple of years for.

So, while you hardly contain yourself, I will jump for joy and thank Matt and Jay for making this gal's dreams come true. *wipes a happy tear*

In other words, bite me

[Threshold]

Originally Posted by (Aztecia @ Mar. 20 2005,02:18) Sorry. But I enjoy Achaea very much, even to get all excitable over the little things like this - considering this is a change I have been waiting a couple of years for.

Don't be sorry.

MUDs have pushed the feature envelope for online games since their beginning.

With the exception of There/Second Life, MMOs are pathetic when it comes to things like furniture.

Cool features shouldn't be mocked. The nature of adding features to a game is that some people will love them, and some people won't really care. The idea is you add enough things so all your players find things interesting.

[Yui Unifex]

Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 20 2005,04:25) Cool features shouldn't be mocked.

I'm not mocking the feature, just the overly dramatic reaction to something so mundane. I can hardly stifle my laughter at someone calling an implementation of furniture cool, much less "very, very impressive".

Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 20 2005,04:25) MUDs have pushed the feature envelope for online games since their beginning.

You sound ridiculous. Furniture pushing the envelope?! The envelope must be pretty easy to push in that case.

[Yui Unifex]

Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 20 2005,04:25) With the exception of There/Second Life, MMOs are pathetic when it comes to things like furniture.

Ahem:
eBay auction

When we start seeing auctions to buy a chair that fell over starting at $9 for Achaea, then maybe it has pushed the envelope into new and exciting territory in interior decorating.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ Mar. 20 2005,10:01) Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 20 2005,04:25) Cool features shouldn't be mocked. I'm not mocking the feature, just the overly dramatic reaction to something so mundane.  I can hardly stifle my laughter at someone calling an implementation of furniture cool, much less "very, very impressive". Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 20 2005,04:25) MUDs have pushed the feature envelope for online games since their beginning. You sound ridiculous.  Furniture pushing the envelope?!  The envelope must be pretty easy to push in that case.

Furniture is really nothing new or exciting or innovative in any way to MUDs. Any RPI MUD will have "furniture" objects.

I suppose not many H&S MUDs have them which might be the novelty of Achaea's furniture, but it's still not the first time something like that's been done.

On the whole, advertising it just seems to me a lot like an automobile company advertising that their cars now feature wheels.

Take care,

Jason

[Janus]

Hmm, some people here really are terribly negative. It's a nice new feature for Achaea, and I like the amethyst-encrusting option.

Not that Imperian's furniture isn't rather spiffy too, of course. But honestly, if you haven't got anything nice to say, it isn't really worth saying it, at least in this instance. If you really want to make a point, go invent something so you can go and announce it, rather than making pointless flames on someone else's work.

[Yui Unifex]

Originally Posted by (Janus @ Mar. 20 2005,18:27) But honestly, if you haven't got anything nice to say, it isn't really worth saying it, at least in this instance.

Sorry I obviously disagree. If completely unremarkable things like this are lauded as "impressive" and seen as "pushing the envelope", we are in some seriously bad shape. Pointing this out is hardly pointless.

Originally Posted by ("Janus" @ foo) If you really want to make a point, go invent something so you can go and announce it, rather than making pointless flames on someone else's work.

I could do that, but it wouldn't be the point I'm trying to make. Generally an invention is something that isn't found all over the place. Wouldn't you agree?

[Janus]

I don't particularly want to argue with you, as you seem to be intent on being negative. You are welcome to your own opinions, but if people like, enjoy or are impressed by the features new to Achaea, or indeed any MUD, they have every right to be.

Attempting to detract from a harmless source of enjoyment is not particularly useful or productive. The reaction of most of Achaea is that the new feature is cool, and they approve of it. And incidently, as Achaea previously did not have this, it is a new invention as far as it's concerned.

[Ilkidarios]

Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ Mar. 20 2005,15:34) Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 20 2005,04:25) With the exception of There/Second Life, MMOs are pathetic when it comes to things like furniture. Ahem: eBay auction When we start seeing auctions to buy a chair that fell over starting at $9 for Achaea, then maybe it has pushed the envelope into new and exciting territory in interior decorating.

That's funny. "These chairs are SUPER RARE! The fallen over chairs! Be the first one on your block to have a broken chair! Make your neighbors think you're a fat cow! Only 9$!"

[Yui Unifex]

Originally Posted by (Janus @ Mar. 20 2005,22:11) I don't particularly want to argue with you, as you seem to be intent on being negative.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with being negative, especially when the situation calls for it. Yes it would be nice if we could all sit around on comfy ruby-encrusted cushions, sipping tea and patting ourselves on the back for life's little triumphs, but when you bring your circle of love to a public forum, don't be surprised when someone points out how diluted and meaningless your terms have become.

You just can't accept the fact that to most people this is not impressive, it is not a dream come true, and it does not push the envelope. Call it negativity, I call it truth.

Originally Posted by (Janus @ foo) And incidently, as Achaea previously did not have this, it is a new invention as far as it's concerned.

It's amazing the kind of contortions you go through to justify your statements.

Originally Posted by (Janus @ Mar. 20 2005,22:11) ...as you seem to be intent on being negative. ... it is a new invention as far as it's concerned.

On the positive side, there are over 617 muds with furniture, and over 223 muds allow players to create their own custom furniture patterns and stylings.

Welcome to the 1990's :-)

[Threshold]

Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ Mar. 20 2005,18:58) Sorry I obviously disagree. If completely unremarkable things like this are lauded as "impressive" and seen as "pushing the envelope", we are in some seriously bad shape. Pointing this out is hardly pointless.

Can you please give me the address of your successful, popular MUD where your fully feature furniture exists, as well as numerous features far superior to it?

Just because something is mundane in RL doesn't mean it is not cool when implemented in a game world.

Furniture that works and can be designed in very detailed ways is very cool and is not something that commonly exists in games (in a well developed, extensive fashion).

The huge mega-million dollar MMOs coming out lately cannot even manage to do it extensively. DAoC had furniture but it was absolute useless garbage.

It is very easy to poo poo something just because you didn't do it yourself.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 21 2005,06:43) Can you please give me the address of your successful, popular MUD where your fully feature furniture exists, as well as numerous features far superior to it? Just because something is mundane in RL doesn't mean it is not cool when implemented in a game world. Furniture that works and can be designed in very detailed ways is very cool and is not something that commonly exists in games (in a well developed, extensive fashion). The huge mega-million dollar MMOs coming out lately cannot even manage to do it extensively. DAoC had furniture but it was absolute useless garbage. It is very easy to poo poo something just because you didn't do it yourself.

Any of the RPI MUDs feature similar, and often times quite better, options with furniture than that which Achaea is inflating the significance of.

http://www.harshlands.net
http://www.middle-earth.us
http://www.armageddon.org
(To say nothing of Forever's End, Forever Ends, Chronicles of Ritnarium, and any other RPI MUDs that are no more or still in development).

As I've said before, I've tried two of the IRE games and came away noticing nothing that I couldn't find already (and more well-done) on free MUDs. That doesn't just go for furniture alone. I've never encountered RP that surpasses that on the MUDs I've listed above and I've seen great H&S combat on MUDs like Necromium.

Sorry, but the "innovative" and "pushing the envelope" furniture on Achaea is neither innovative nor pushing the envelope. It's old hat and the fact that it didn't exist already in a pay-to-play continues to make me wonder why people choose such games over far better, more innovative, and totally free MUDs. I guess it's like cheap wine. If the best wine you've ever tried comes in a box, you won't really know there's anything better until you try something else.

Take care,

Jason

[Yui Unifex]

Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 21 2005,06:43) Yui Unifex: Sorry I obviously disagree. If completely unremarkable things like this are lauded as "impressive" and seen as "pushing the envelope", we are in some seriously bad shape. Pointing this out is hardly pointless. Threshold: Can you please give me the address of your successful, popular MUD where your fully feature furniture exists, as well as numerous features far superior to it?

Welcome to the amazing bizarro-world of Threshold, where only people who have successful, popular MUDs can recognize which features are found all over the goddamn place.

You've gotta be kidding me if you think that the only reason I can't recognize how amazing this envelope-pushing feature is is because I "haven't implemented it myself". Justifying these statements takes 10 minutes with a couple of mudsite search engines.

Originally Posted by (Threshold @ foo) Just because something is mundane in RL doesn't mean it is not cool when implemented in a game world.

Oh I certainly agree. It's hard to approach the coolness of being the first kid on the block to own a broken chair.

[Valg]

Janus:Hmm, some people here really are terribly negative. It's a nice new feature for Achaea...

Threshold:It is very easy to poo poo something just because you didn't do it yourself.

1) Please tell me that a thread does not exist where Achaea supporters are decrying negative posting on TMS.  I'd prefer to think it was a hallucination, and not that people have overlooked the_logos's previous posts.  Yui and others are a lot more mature about being critical to boot.

2) While we don't have customizable, purchase-able furniture(*) (we have several stores with customizable products, but not furniture), it is a feature I've seen elsewhere, usually in conjunction with the ability to buy houses, etc.  I think that the original post is well and good, but that people are getting carried away with proclaiming the virtues of the ability to make special chairs.

(*): Different culture, really.  Equipment and possessions are very transient in our game... we try to discourage characters from being too focused on that.

It was actually August of 1989 when players of muds aquired the power to create sofas, beds, ottomans, lazyboys, chairs, curtains, linen, jewel-encrusted, finely lathed and whatever their imagination could possibly conjure up unlimited by color, type, style, weight, height, coverings and someone else's idea of what the "options" were.

By 1991 this furniture was swallowing items, eating players, cooking eggs into omelets, transmuting lead into gold, serving sodas and beer, and of course talking and moving around on its own power.

By 1994 a very much limited and nerfed implementation of furniture started appearing on some Diku muds.

[the_logos]

Total stats on furniture so far:
235 items purchased
7.717 million gold total
Average of 32,838 gold per piece

If prof515, Tyche, and Yui Unifex work together, I bet we can keep this thread on the front page of TMS at least another week or two.

--matt

[Yui Unifex]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Mar. 21 2005,14:53) If prof515, Tyche, and Yui Unifex work together, I bet we can keep this thread on the front page of TMS at least another week or two.

I think you're going to have to wind up some more of your clockwork minions first. But seriously, nobody but yourself cares how much advertisement you get from this.

[the_logos]

Various player reactions to furniture, from Achaea's forums at achaea.ire-community.com:

One of the things that has always impressed me about Achaea (apart from the depth in combat) is the way the Divine listen to our requests and suggestions.

I've played several Muds & MMORPG's and I would have to say that your attention to your userbase and customer service is No. 1.

Give yourselves a pat on the back!! Good job all round!

I am aboslutely ecstatic about this implementation! Kudos you wonderful Divine.

Wow, this system is awesome! Thanks.

--matt