[Dubthach]

I've been serially trying muds the last couple weeks, and I have found a couple places that suit me fairly well. (I'm playing 4Dimensions atm if that helps any, and I like Geas although I haven't spent much time there yet.) I thought I'd throw what I want out there and see if any better matches pop up though.

See my post in the Tavern called "Why I won't play your mud" to see things that really irritate me.

Here's what I'm looking for:

* RP encouraged or "less". I like being in character without making a production about it. I hate being bossed around.
* Restricted PK. Full PK with some relatively safe places is OK also.
* A nice, non babysitting atmosphere.
* Some way of constant character advancement, with a balanced atmosphere. Sometimes remort works here, sometimes classless games etc.

Here are some things that I would like, but are not really requirements:

* Crafting/trade skills: If you have this, it is a HUGE plus to me. Even better if increasing in your craft is decoupled from combat completely.
* No rules against adult language/cursing. I understand, of course, that hate speech is not acceptable.
* A cohesive world view.
* I'd prefer a smallish mud, but it's not important. (30-70 online)
* I dislike "rent". If your game is fantastic, I'll overlook this.
* Dynamic clan system (I have yet to see this on a mud)
* Player housing

Thanks,
Dub

[Pharazon]

For fear of being flamed for posting an advertisement (sic), I'll deal with each of your points in turn:

Originally Posted by * RP encouraged or "less".  I like being in character without making a production about it. I hate being bossed around.

We're a Hack'n'slash, no RP enforced. We do have players that RP, but these are more the exception than the rule

Originally Posted by * Restricted PK.  Full PK with some relatively safe places is OK also.

We have specific areas for PK, unless you are affected by a diplomatic stance as a member of a Royal House (see below)

Originally Posted by * A nice, non babysitting atmosphere.

We have an optional newbie tour, optional enrollment to a newbie academy, or you can simply fight it out and learn on your own.

Originally Posted by * Some way of constant character advancement, with a balanced atmosphere.  Sometimes remort works here, sometimes classless games etc.

We have a (unique?) 5-stage multiclassing system, with the ability to keep earning 'Character Points' one you hit max avatar. Essentially, there is no end to the advancements you can earn for your character.

Originally Posted by * Crafting/trade skills: If you have this, it is a HUGE plus to me.  Even better if increasing in your craft is decoupled from combat completely.

We do not currently have a crafting system, but this is one of the main features that is currently being developed.

Originally Posted by * No rules against adult language/cursing.  I understand, of course, that hate speech is not acceptable.

We have a variety of channels, which all allow a differing amount of adult language.  The only thing that we do not tolerate in any way is directed personal attacks.

Originally Posted by * A cohesive world view.

We have a world comprising 5 continents, with ocean naval code to allow for travelling between.  We have an in-game automapper which highly encourages builders to create cohesize zones where rooms/zones do not overlap

Originally Posted by * I'd prefer a smallish mud, but it's not important. (30-70 online)

Our player graph is available at: http://www.necromium.com/currentinfo/graph.php - they should clearly show the online counts vary anywhere between 30-75 online.

Originally Posted by * I dislike "rent".  If your game is fantastic, I'll overlook this.

We still have rent code - a nominal 100 coins to rent. However, members of clans/houses (including the newbie academy) can 'rent' for free at their various guild halls.

Originally Posted by * Dynamic clan system (I have yet to see this on a mud)

Not sure what you mean by dynamic?  Our system allows anyone to purchase a clan.  Multiple clans can join together under the umbrella of a 'Royal House'.  The last finishing touches are currently being put into the 'Regency' system - a player-controlled monarchy/ruling council.  Each of the royal houses can own ships, property, house items. Houses can set diplomatic stances versus each other which allows for extended PK in (almost) any zone in the mud.

Originally Posted by * Player housing

We do provide player housing, with custom room descriptions, mobs, affects, and other benefits.

All in all, I'd recommend that you try us out.  You may like us, you may not - but we do seem to fit most of the criteria that you've laid out.

P.

[John]

I'm going to suggest merentha. Not because I'm a player there, but because I think it fits your criteria

1. It's definitely a non-RP mud. It does allow those who want to RP, to RP, but most people don't.
2. It doesn't have a mud school It also has harsh areas as well as newbie areas.
3. I don't know of any non-RP mud that allows constant character advancement. However the mud does have new areas and quests put in on a regular basis.

Like but not necessary>
1. It doesn't have any crafting skills AFAIK
2. It's a family mud, so yeah, it does have rules about cursing
3. Yeah, I'd say the world view is cohesive. Thieves HQ aren't right in the middle of a city out in the open Stuff like that
4. It's a fairly large mud actually. 50+ players at all times (IIRC).
5. Nope. No rent system
6. It has voting for the role of leader in a clan. I'd call this dynamic. However what did you mean by dynamic clans exactly?
7. Yes, it does have player housing

Good luck

[Tzven]

I'd recommend DartMUD.

Originally Posted by RP encouraged or "less".  I like being in character without making a production about it. I hate being bossed around.

DartMUD is RP encouraged. You are not required to send emotes of 30 lines or more every 5 seconds. You can, if you want, spend all of your time trying to kill everything you see. But you will not go far without interacting with other players.

Originally Posted by Restricted PK.  Full PK with some relatively safe places is OK also.

DartMUD is full PK. It is also has permadeath. This means that twinks who randomly go around trying to kill people don't last long. So unless you're extremely annoying to people who can kill you, you're not likely to be PK'd

Originally Posted by A nice, non babysitting atmosphere.

You start off with your native language, and the common language. If you want to be taught skills, you have to be polite and ask people around you. Most people on DartMUD hate the attitude and whining of people who demand teaching.

Originally Posted by Some way of constant character advancement, with a balanced atmosphere.  Sometimes remort works here, sometimes classless games etc.

DartMUD is skill based. There is no hard limit on how skilled you can train yourself. However, some skills interfere with each other, meaning a skilled fighter would have a hard time learning magic. The same being true the other way.

Originally Posted by Crafting/trade skills: If you have this, it is a HUGE plus to me.  Even better if increasing in your craft is decoupled from combat completely.

Crafting is a huge part of DartMUD. Almost everything you see is craftable. If you want a sword, you first have to make the hilt. Wooden(wood working) or leather(leather working) hilt? There are dozens of types of trees to chop down(lumbering), and every animal can be skinned for it's hide(tanning). Next you have to mine the ore(mining), refine it (metallurgy), then finally you can forge the weapon(smithing).

You can grow and weave cotton for clothing, and there are thousands of cooking recipies. Spend the day fishing if you're feeling lazy, or if a friend is injured go out and make a potion of healing.

Originally Posted by No rules against adult language/cursing.  I understand, of course, that hate speech is not acceptable.

DartMUD is recommened for mature players. There are no set rules against profanity. Although if you go to the main city and shouting out of character racial insults, or offering to sell Pokemon cards you would quickly find yourself eviscerated.

Originally Posted by A cohesive world view.

Area's are well designed and written. And all are consisttant for a medieval world.

Originally Posted by I'd prefer a smallish mud, but it's not important. (30-70 online)

The most I've ever seen on at any given time has been around 50.

Originally Posted by I dislike "rent".  If your game is fantastic, I'll overlook this.

Only your clothing, jewelry, keyring, and your moneybag save upon exiting. Warriors need to find a safe place to store their arms. Mages, on the other hand, generally live very spartan lives, and can survive living on the street.

Originally Posted by Dynamic clan system (I have yet to see this on a mud) Player housing

Players have built castles of nobility. Fortresses which contain all the essential requirements for life. Farmlands, bedrooms, crafting rooms, barns, etc. However, these castles can be taken over by any determined group of usurpers. There is quite a history of conflict over the ownership of these castles.

About your dislikes:

Originally Posted by Reason 1:  The reality is not what was advertised

RP encouraged, you will not be pestered for not speaking in accents. There are no channels to roleplay on. And as I said before, you can spend all of your time trying to kill npc's, but the real fun is dealing with other players.

Originally Posted by Reason 2:  You have inane rules.

There is a comprehensive and easy to read help rules section, though the most important part is this:

Originally Posted by > help basic rules These are the basic rules: No botting. No multiplaying. One character per person, two with approval. Don't exploit bugs to benefit your character or to harm others. Don't use out-of-game or out-of-character communications  to benefit your character or to harm others.

Originally Posted by No AFK

You are allowed to be AFK as long as you want. However, after about 10 minutes you will be logged out. The DartMUD definition of botting is:

Originally Posted by Definition:  Botting occurs whenever a character is left unattended by the player while performing any game activity.

Originally Posted by Reason 3:  You cost too much.

DartMUD is completely free. You do not need to pay any money, not even to buy certain hard to get items or skills.

Originally Posted by Reason 4:  Your Imms are too touchy feely.

Most creator/player conversation goes through the OOC bulletin boards. If you post a note on the ideas, complaints, they are likely to reply to you telling you why things are, and why things are not. Occasionally a creator comes down to chat, but that is exceedingly rare.

Originally Posted by Reason 5: You think you're better than you really are.

DartMUD is obviously not for everyone. I think it's the best MUD I've ever played. Some think it's the worst. That's life.

Originally Posted by Reason 6:  Your help files suck.

The help files are among the best I've seen. Well written, easy to read. And most important, straight to the point.

Originally Posted by Reason 7:  Movement penalties.

Movement from one room to another is instant, however hiking over mountains or hills, or swimming over rivers or oceans will fatigue you.

[Dubthach]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll certainly try all those games.

Dartmud appealed to me before, and I'll certainly try it...but I'm not sure I want to deal with perm death.

I also doubt you'd get in trouble for advertizing your mud in the "advertizing for players" forum.

[Hephos]

http://www.sharune.com

[Jazuela]

www.progressquest.com

There ya go. No IMMs getting in your way, lots of treasure, awesome experience/leveling, you can be AFK to your heart's content, and in fact you can even be AFK and still level and gain power without having to worry about getting punted out after 10 minutes, no RP at all.

[KaVir]

Hephos, just curious, but do you actually read any of these threads before posting your advert at the end?

The original poster specifically cited his thread in the Tavern of the Blue Hand (entitled "Why I won't play your mud"), as an example of things that really irritate him, in which he states "I don't play RP enforced muds". His first requirement here then states "RP encouraged or "less"." So what do you do? Post an advert for your RP enforced mud - exactly what he's said he's not looking for...

[Hephos]

Sharune is not RP enforced. You can play the game fully without RPing, and hence we are not enforcing anyone to RP imo.

It boils down to how you interpret "enforced" and "encouraged".

[John]

Originally Posted by (Hephos @ Feb. 22 2004,10:10) Sharune is not RP enforced. You can play the game fully without RPing, and hence we are not enforcing anyone to RP imo.

I can't see how to interperate that as "RP mandatory" so shouldn't the info for Sharune be changed? After all, if Roleplaying isn't mandatory (i.e. you can play without roleplaying) then it's false advertising.

[Hephos]

Well the "rp-mandatory" setting in this database was a bit old. Changed now.

[shadowfyr]

You could take a look are Ages of Despair: www.agesofdespair.net

There are a few things on your list that are not yet available and we are fighting to get implimented, but...

Suff that is on the list:

* RP encouraged or "less" --> We recently established an RP society that is still getting it sea legs. Some people do, most don't. There is also even a newspaper that players can submit stuff to. It could be better, but won't get that way without more RP style players and the graduation of a few of us to staff.

* Restricted PK. --> There are a few areas made to be intentionally PK and are avoided by the paranoid like myself. However, PK outside those areas is restricted to individuals that specifically choose it.

* A nice, non babysitting atmosphere. --> If you ask for help and the question isn't flat out silly, odds are you will get help. There is a newbie channel specifically for this, though occationally people get too busy to answer. There are however hundreds of help files that cover literally everything that the staff don't want specifically hidden.

* I'd prefer a smallish mud, but it's not important. (30-70 online) --> I have rarely seen more than 60 people on at one time.

* I dislike "rent". --> Well, if you mean stuff doesn't stay on your player when you log off and you have to keep things in a locker then yeah, we do have that. Also, since the game was designed from the beginning with the old method of unlimited eq and money, but no real drain existed to get rid of any of it, they recently implimented a weekly tax to suck away some of the massive amounts of money a few players managed to collect.

* Player housing --> For a mere 3/4 of a million coins you can get a house and your first chest. Each additional chest is 250k and 10k for each new room added. This doesn't keep the persistent tax man away, but it does eliminate the rent problem.

Partial items>

* Some way of constant character advancement --> Well.. We only have 150 levels, but getting there.... There are also things like the Centre for Combat Enlightenment that allow improvement of stats beyond the point where they increase automatically. I know of fewer than 10-20 players that are at level 140+, let alone 150. Partly this is due to some clowns that get bored and reincarnate to something else.

* No rules against adult language/cursing. --> Well.. You can get by with quite a bit in presonal tells or on the BS channel, but there are limits. If you overstep them you will be warned, but the bar is fairly reasonable.

* A cohesive world view. --> One of the semi-retired admin is apparently working on a far more coprehensive history, but being semi-retired, he isn't on often. Unaware of this, one of the current admin asked some of us RPers to write up some things to flesh out the history, which may now no be used. There isn't a completely cohesive pattern fitting all the areas together 'yet'. However there is info for every race and most areas themselves have a limited back story of their own. A few have begun to recently interconnect, so that one area is a continuation of what is taking place in another nearby.

Things not implimented >

* Crafting/trade skills --> One wiz was working on a concept for player owned shops, but never finished before getting into a bit of trouble and being sent into forced retirement. Since then no one has been able to come up with a good reason to impliment such a thing, since the current admin is a bit reluctant to allow player created items into the game. Most of us see this as a potential problem too, since characters can, but don't need to eat, and so far there is no other need for items beyond armor and weapons. But since armor and weapons come primarily from mobs....

* Dynamic clan system --> Well... You won't see a dynamic one on AoD either. This is a bit like the crafting issue. No one can find a practical way to fit it into the game and the few ideas that people have come up with are impractical for the existing staff to design or flat out make no sense in the game as it exists.

A lot of stuff is being designed or improved and eventually even crafting and clans may find its way in, but it is hard to say when.

[Geras]

I think if you have to go kill mobs to level, it should be called rp-encouraged and not rp-enforced.

If you can't advance through someone teaching you/practicing/rping then you're forcing someone to do something their character may or may not want to do in order to be competitive, essentially enforcing OOC behavior at some point.

[Geras]

Oh, thanks for changing the setting on Sharune in the database Hephos. I through me off, as I thought
your MUD was something it wasnt

[Panzer]

I really think you should check out TempusMUD.

http://www.tempusmud.com/

In answer to your questions:

* RP encouraged or "less".  I like being in character without making a production about it. I hate being bossed around.

We are an RP optional mud.  We don't require it.

* Restricted PK.  Full PK with some relatively safe places is OK also.

We have a Restricted PK system that allows for character growth.

* A nice, non babysitting atmosphere.

Help is only a "newbie" channel away!  We'll welcome you with open arms, and let you run rampant across the world..no babysitting or peering over your shoulder!

* Some way of constant character advancement, with a balanced atmosphere.  Sometimes remort works here, sometimes classless games etc.

We have a Remort system in place.  You choose your "primary" class, and then whenever you remort, you get to choose a secondary class.  Want to be a mage/thief your first generation? Go for it!  Hated that combo? Want to try mage/monk for your second generation? Have at it!

* No rules against adult language/cursing.  I understand, of course, that hate speech is not acceptable.

We're pretty flexible, from what I've heard

* A cohesive world view.

Definite cohesion between our past and future worlds.  There are multiple tie-ins and the storyline is awesome!

* I'd prefer a smallish mud, but it's not important. (30-70 online)

Right now, we average between 25 and 30, I would say.

* I dislike "rent".  If your game is fantastic, I'll overlook this.

You can rent out, if you need to..or you can find a friend with a house and simply "quit", maintaining your eq (or buy your own house...)

* Dynamic clan system (I have yet to see this on a mud)

Clans!  Ahh clans!  We have a number of clans which you may see fit to join--and gain in responsibility/power within the clan.

* Player housing

Absolutely!  You can buy your own house, and expand upon it--adding things such as fountains, arena rooms, comfort rooms, energy pumps....many of the "world room" features can be added to your own room!

Come and give us a shot!

http://www.tempusmud.com/

[Pharazon]

I'd like to invite brief feedback from the original poster on all the fine muds that were recommended, from which I hope he managed to find a new home.