[Eagleon]

I am proposing a multi-part MUD, with each MUD linked to the other. We will start building up each MUD's areas (They will all be custom, I've already deleted Teristra's stock areas), making each MUD passably explorable, then start doing major changes in code.

I think the MUDs will be built in the order listed, they're in order of difficulty as I see it. It's an ambitious project to build one acceptable MUD, let alone four, but I think it can be done in time, and we have time. You don't have to be in it for the long haul, I expect this project to continue for at least the next fifteen years, if it lasts that long, and if things go better than I think possible. Iteria, I have the basic concepts down. I'm going to be hopefully writing a novel based on those concepts. I have geography, magic systems, political intrigues, a few characters, and a bit more all figured out. We might even be using my books as a basis for the MUD. That'll be interesting for me to see. Other than that one world, the rest is completely open for alteration by the builders, coders, etc. I wish I hadn't even started on Teristra yet, but I had to come up with something, and I had to see for a while if I was really up to this.

I don't know how to code. I can build well. Not with the greatest of speed, but I can build. I'm hoping to learn as I go along. This is a learning experience for all of us. Four separately linked MUDs is a concept I don't think has ever been done. The main thing I think I provide is a large amount of nifty ideas for you coders to sweat over. Heh heh. I hope we can get this started at least, and that at least some of you don't think I'm nuts to try for this.

If any of you want to meet up and discuss the prospect, we can set a time for a meeting someplace. I'll even download AIM or dig up ICQ or something if you want me to.


World list for different MUDs

Teristra: 16 gods, jewel of Teristra, overbalance of power causes shift in age. Normal magic. Main issue(s): Giving a good amount of powers to the gods, creating a good worship system, and getting ourselves oriented with making a MUD. Also making the ordinary magic system a lot more interesting, in the hopes of getting ready for later worlds.

Hacheban: Sci-fi-esque world, psionics, gravity gates between worlds, gravity gate to different star causes shift in age. Main issue(s): Building the world's history, figuring which technologies we want to give to this world, and others I can't think of. o.o;

Kerest: Ethereal world, travelers take on different form, ability to alter (slightly) the surface of world's reality, discovery of amplification for powers causes shift in age. Main issue(s): Keeping the players interested in the world around them (building interesting things, other than room after room full of ethereal smoke! ) Also, what kind of abilities do we want to give to the players, and what will happen when the amplifiers are discovered?

Iteria: Language of creation, contact with one of two gods causes shift in age. Main issue(s): Balance of ability in a world where extremes of magical power comes easily, as easily as saying a phrase. Magic system highly advanced, with different words altering other words magical behavior.


Teristra's god system (quoted from text file): Here, I've outlined the basic deity system for the MUD we will be working on first. This is all open to change, even the names of the gods. Oh, and if you notice references to other games/books/movies, you're probrally right, though I may be unaware of it. I get my ideas from everywhere, including my own head, and I always forget where exactly.


There are 16 gods in Teristra, each ruling a different part of the world. Most seek to carve out the greatest amount of control over the beings of Iteria.

After a while, a god usually grows tired of ruling over their portion of the world, and wishes to retire. When a god steps down, he or she must carefully choose a mortal as the next in their place. After weeks of incredible pain and terrifying visions, if the mortal is still sane, he is granted the god's powers. The former god's name is then inscribed on the Tome of Ages. He is still immortal, but lives as a wraith-like being, able to be seen, but not able to affect the world in any way except this: Each god is required to give a gift to the former god. The former god can use these gifts like he could as a mortal. Thus, most former gods have a tribute shrine built in their name, where the gifts are stored.

The power of a god's realm may not greatly exceed other god's powers for long. When this happens, a great wave of the opposing god's power strikes Iteria. This keeps godwars in check, as it is not at all beneficial to have a greater amount of power than the others. When a wave such as this strikes, the time after it is now known as an Age. The Age is named after the opposing god which released the wave. An age may be known in infamy or reverence, depending on the nature of the god. One would think that no gods would forget the catastrophe of tipping the balance of power, but time wears on knowledge, and knowledge becomes myth. After a long time, the gods eventually forget what an age means or how it is caused.

The 16 positions of power are divided amongst 5 sections: Life, Death, Earth, Sky, and Fire. Each god is a part of two different sections, representing the combination of the two. The first section of each god is the most important. Fire is not a first section of any of them, as there would be no opposition to it if it were so. It is believed that mortals rule it, and should they all die, the Jewel of Teristra would flip, causing a new world to be created, and the old one destroyed in a great flame.

List of current gods:
Prigdish, Mortality: Life-Death. Opposition: Astadan, Birth.
Agriragan, Creation: Life-Earth. Opposition: Budac, Destruction.
Frau, Dream: Life-Sky. Opposition: Kerraad, Truth.
Jeralitram, Love: Life-Fire. Opposition: Thiamar, Hate.
Astadan, Birth: Death-Life. Opposition: Prigdish, Mortality.
Cadilid, Sacrifice: Death-Earth. Opposition: Rardonwan, Cowardice.
Budac, Destruction: Death-Sky. Opposition: Agriragan, Creation.
Thiamar, Hate: Death-Fire. Opposition: Jeralitram, Love.
Lothuld, Mercy: Earth-Life. Opposition: Haebard, War.
Kerraad, Truth: Earth-Death. Opposition: Frau, Dream.
Naniel, Knowledge: Earth-Sky. Opposition: Tore, Ignorance.
Afirawyr, Magic: Earth-Fire. Opposition: Broaldric, Mind.
Rardonwan, Cowardice: Sky-Life. Opposition: Cadilid, Sacrifice.
Haebard, War: Sky-Death. Opposition: Lothuld, Mercy.
Tore, Ignorance: Sky-Earth. Opposition: Naniel, Knowledge.
Broaldric, Mind: Sky-Fire. Opposition: Afirawyr, Magic.

Tome of Ages:
Only mortals may look upon the Tome of Ages, and it is there where the knowledge of the ages, the names of the past eight gods for each power, and their history are recorded. The Tome of Ages varies in appearance as the power balance shifts. It takes on the properties of the opposing force of the one in power as the balance shifts. Should for example, the god of Creation become overzealous in his teachings, the book will appear tattered, burnt, and worn because the god of Destruction rules opposite him. At the end of a God's ruling, the current god of creation creates a picture representing the passing god's actions, to be put into the book. The book may only contain eight names for each power. When another god ascends, the oldest god's page is destroyed in order to assure the continuing cycle of Ages. It is unknown how many gods have ruled in the past, since the shrines of former gods are usually destroyed in the shift of an age.

An age can last anywhere from 500 years to 10,000, but fate demands a change, and it always gets what it wants.

You should spend less time going on and on and on (in excruciating detail) about your ideas for the MUD's story and instead put something in about how you plan to obtain the necessary resources for multiple MUDs. Especially since you evidently have no coding knowledge and are asking coders to just come help you for free. Particularly, how will you pay for the hosting and how reliable is your paycheck? Are you an educated professional or a kid eagerly planning a "fifteen year" project that would run entirely from your parents basement? When coders are considering devoting their talent to your cause, these are the things they are worried about, not whether you know how to throw together some stock fantasy theme.
I note in particular that your personal homepage does not exactly scream "this person is reliable enough to embark upon a 15 year project with".

[Eagleon]

That is exactly why I said we'll meet, to discuss funding and hosting services. Notice that I'm taking a tiered approach as well, not focusing on all of them at once? That's because we'll probably only have room for one MUD at first. I know how much this will cost, and as much as I hate it, it'll probably be pay-to-play, at least eventually.

Personally, I'd rather not devote my energies to some place that has lots of money, but absolutely no goal as to what to do with it. And if you don't like my concept, don't read it. It's there for people who may be interested in doing it. That's why I put it last. Your post is all flame and destruction. There is no constructive purpose to it. You didn't offer ideas on _how_ to raise money for it, or why you didn't like my ideas (or my webpage), you're just a bitter little turd.

I've also found that MUDs which are run by people who don't know how to build, but only how to code, get nowhere fast. Even a MUD with incredibly innovative ideas is nothing without the ability for the environment to put a player in it. I don't code. That’s right. Neither do a lot of people. Is that any way to measure the ability for a person to manage a MUD, though?

[Hephos]

Originally Posted by I don't code.  That’s right. Neither do a lot of people. Is that any way to measure the ability for a person to manage a MUD, though?

No, but it might be a good measure on how much progress your game will get, or if it is even going to get off the grounds and become playable.

From my experience, you will need one of the actual founders of the game, that will spend hours,days,years to be an extremely proficient coder/programmer, or you will fail.

Posting "looking for coder" blabla will not get you ANYWHERE, thats a fact You could get a bunch of really crappy builders this way, that will probably not be able to produce anything worthwhile for your game.

Posting that you are "looking for builders" will get you some people that might be interested. But then, of 500 applying for the position, maybe 1 will actually be something worth having, the rest of them will be completely wasted time on your own part (teaching them, learning them and whatever).

Now, as you seem to want to make a pay2play mud you will not be using an already existing codebase. That means you will have to create your own game engine from scratch. If you have no RL buddies to draft into the project that knows how to program proffessionally your project is doomed to fail. You will not get that kind of coder from a "looking for coder" post on any mud community site.

Suggestion:
Look around your own base of real life friends. Can anyone help you with this project? Do you know anyone that knows how to program, and in a level of proffessionalism that he/she could create a complete game engine from scratch? And does this person want to spend several hours every day for the next few years programming your game?

If not. Try make a smaller project. Work from a diku derivate or similar. Try make a small game with your theme. Even then, IMO you are doomed to fail as most other muds that are not started by a close band of RL friends which all have the appropriate skills to make a successful game. (Sorry...)

Good luck though!

Egleon, I did not mean to come off as flaming you, if thats the way it seemed. I apologize if you took it that way and indeed I could have softened my words much.

My advice to you is to pick up a beginner level book on programming. These can often be obtained for under $1 from library booksales. Also there are a plethora of online tutorials. Make sure it is a decent language, C and Java are good. You can look at open source codebases to get an idea where to start, an excellent one to see just the very basics in very well commented form is Kavir's Gladiator Pits.

Start by making small changes (but real changes-- not just making colours flashy) to a codebase you know well, move up to doing bigger changes. This all as practice. Then you will be ready to begin writing your own MUD from scratch. 2 years ago I didn't know the first thing about C but I started making small mods to the SMAUG codebase which gradually got bigger and now I can do massive original code projects at the drop of a hat. You, too, can do this with a little practice.

I recommend reading everything you can get your hands on about communication protocols. You will realize that everything on the internet-- ICQ, http, Counterstrike, FTP, e-mail, Everquest-- is all the exact same as a MUD, but with very fancy MUD clients. When you send a message on ICQ, you are really using the ICQ program as a MUDclient to send a "tell" command-- except instead of a simple "tell" its a rather convoluted binary code, but essentially the same thing. You can connect to the ICQ or AIM servers through a simple telnet window, and in theory if you knew the protocol well enough you could log on and chat with just that.

[Eagleon]

I suppose I was a little hasty in posting this already. One thing after another has kept me from learning to program, from a crappy Gateway computer, to no compiler, to an out-of-date compiler, to an idiot brother deleting everything I'm working on, to sometimes (I admit) just laziness. Now that I have a job, however, I think I'll get my own computer and spend some money on getting something that isn't second rate.

Sorry for wasting everyone's time. I'm sure you can understand how it is, though, when you have all these incredible ideas, and then somehow, the crypt libraries get deleted, and you can no longer compile your codebase. Then, the bloody setup program for Cygwin decides it's a good time to refuse to install or download any files. >.< Heh

You're absolutely right that a MUD won't get so far without one of the head Immies, if not the owner, being a coder. I was hoping for some obscure success story to clear me out. All's fair in love and war, even calling people turds.