[macdaddy7]

I am looking to become an administrator for a MUD, or I would also like to become a builder if someone is willing to teach me. I have played on over 100 MUDs over a 3 year period which I have been Mudding. I am currently playing a MUD (Elysium RPG, check it out). But I have been playing for about 1 1/2 years now and Im looking for something different. If you're interested, please post a reply and I'll get back to you.

[Sarolite]

What code bases and themes have you played? I will train you in building if you wish to come work with us. We are a medieval fantasy RP mud based on Dawn of Time, a Rom-derivative. Just a tip, however: olc building can be taught, the English language (including proper spelling, grammar, punctuation, and even creativity), on the other hand, you must bring to the table, where ever you go.   (Edit: Don't want anyone to think that was directed at you due to anything in the post above, I'm just letting you know what you have to have to build for me. )

Anyway, email me if you want more information.

Sarolite@theguildwr.com

[Ogma]

You're unlikely to get an administrators position as a cold hire right off the street. At Dartmud, we recruit our creators from people who have been playing (recently) at least six months and have an intimate familiarity with the world.

My suggestion is to find a mud you like and play it for some time until you have something useful to contribute to the world, then apply for a builder position.

Being an administrator on a mud is not something one does lightly for something different to do. It can often be a huge headache.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Ogma @ July 24 2003,17:46) You're unlikely to get an administrators position as a cold hire right off the street.      At Dartmud, we recruit our creators from people who have been playing (recently) at least six months and have an intimate familiarity with the world.

And if you do find a mud willing to let you be an admin off the bat, it's a crap mud, I guarantee you.

We require our admins to have at least 1500 hours of playing time, and they have to do a minimum of 500 hours of apprentice time before they become a full admin. That's a full year of 40 hours a week.

--matt

[welcor]

Originally Posted by We require our admins to have at least 1500 hours of playing time, and they have to do a minimum of 500 hours of apprentice time before they become a full admin. That's a full year of 40 hours a week.

In other words, you don't want people with a life ?

As far as I see it, you can only put in 40 hours/week if you :
a) don't have anything else to do (ie. is unemployed).
b) are studying, and keep the mud running in the background.
c) aren't involved with a person of the other sex (or is involved with another mudder).
d) don't have kids. And finally,
e) don't have other people in the house who might like to use the computer once in a while.

The above is only a short list of things that prevents me from putting in such an amount of time - I refuse to idle to get the 'time played' up.

[Terloch]

Don't even try to argue with him, or prove a point welcom, it's not worth the effort...

[Wik]

Normal posters don't talk your ear off when they lose. The logos is known to do that. For 30 pages.

Let the logos win.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (welcor @ July 26 2003,15:26) [In other words, you don't want people with a life ? As far as I see it, you can only put in 40 hours/week if you : a) don't have anything else to do (ie. is unemployed). b) are studying, and keep the mud running in the background. c) aren't involved with a person of the other sex (or is involved with another mudder). d) don't have kids. And finally, e) don't have other people in the house who might like to use the computer once in a while. The above is only a short list of things that prevents me from putting in such an amount of time - I refuse to idle to get the 'time played' up.

No, we want long-time players who known the game inside and out, and then we want admins willing to sacrifice a lot of time in order to gain the privilege of playing an in-role God. Few, if any, put in 40 hours a week and it'd be essentially impossible to go from newbie to God in a year. It's a mult-year process really, though presumably most mortals don't seriously start playing realistically thinking they are aiming to be a God.

I think this high barrier to entry is probably why we've never had an admin on any of our games go psycho and try to mess with the game intentionally (course, there have been accidents).

Incidentally, time idle wouldn't do much for you. Those numbers are largely guidelines, as there's little chance of someone acquiring a level of proficiency first as a mortal and second as an immortal in less time, unless you had previous experience in one of our other games.

--matt

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Wik @ July 26 2003,22:59) Normal posters don't talk your ear off when they lose. The logos is known to do that. For 30 pages. Let the logos win.

"Lose" implies there's something to "win" and I don't think there is in the sense you're using the terms. Newsgroups aren't battles. They're attempts (or should be in my opinion. You're welcome to your own.) to arrive closer to some sort of truth about the subject at hand via a somewhat dialectic process. Everybody with sense "wins" when they gain knowledge or a better perspective on some issue even marginally relevant to his or her life.

--matt

[malaclypse]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ July 26 2003,23:27) "Lose" implies there's something to "win" and I don't think there is in the sense you're using the terms. Newsgroups aren't battles. They're attempts (or should be in my opinion. You're welcome to your own.) to arrive closer to some sort of truth about the subject at hand via a somewhat dialectic process. Everybody with sense "wins" when they gain knowledge or a better perspective on some issue even marginally relevant to his or her life.

No use arguing with them, Matt. They've been conditioned to believe that open discussion is a bad thing.

Originally Posted by (welcor @ July 26 2003,15:26) Originally Posted by We require our admins to have at least 1500 hours of playing time, and they have to do a minimum of 500 hours of apprentice time before they become a full admin. That's a full year of 40 hours a week. In other words, you don't want people with a life ?

I think this is one of the big things which has changes in the MUD community over the decades, a major change which people have taken for granted.

Originally a MUD was just a hobby. Gods were pretty much selected by virtue of being collegemates with the other Gods. Muds were run by people with lives.

Hmm, when someone with a life undertakes a massive endeavor such as running their own mud, rather than spend a few weeks setting up a stock system and then spending 40 hours a week babysitting it, theyll instead devote some time and effort to making something new and innovative which runs itself. "If you build it they will come..... If you download it from the nearest stock codebase archive they will come but only if you give up the rest of your life to babysit them"

This has to do with the fact that people with lives want to make a product enjoyable to the general public, something they can show an arbitrary friend who's never heard of MUDs before and the friend will like it. Whereas, the majority of people who set out to start their own MUD, pretty much market it to geeks and nerds who are already established in the MUDs.

A standard mud might be described as "20000 rooms, triple tier remort, OLC, IMC, optional PK, Builders accepted". Try running that past a random person on the street. They won't be the least bit interested, in fact they won't even understand what you're talking about.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by Originally a MUD was just a hobby. Gods were pretty much selected by virtue of being collegemates with the other Gods. Muds were run by people with lives.

No, originally, muds were almost entirely commercial. It wasn't until about half-way through their lifetime so far (90 or 91 or so) that there began to be a lot of hobbyist muds. And those commercial muds were run by people quite devoted to them.

Originally Posted by Hmm, when someone with a life undertakes a massive endeavor such as running their own mud, rather than spend a few weeks setting up a stock system and then spending 40 hours a week babysitting it, theyll instead devote some time and effort to making something new and innovative which runs itself. "If you build it they will come..... If you download it from the nearest stock codebase archive they will come but only if you give up the rest of your life to babysit them"

I'm not sure what your point is exactly. Setting up a stock mud is either simple curiosity or a perceived inability or real unwillingness to do the work involved in creating your own system. I don't see what it has to do with having a life or not. I can tell you that as someone who did create his own, successful system, keeping what I've created going dominates my life. That's no different from any other entrepreneur though. *shrug*

Originally Posted by A standard mud might be described as "20000 rooms, triple tier remort, OLC, IMC, optional PK, Builders accepted". Try running that past a random person on the street. They won't be the least bit interested, in fact they won't even understand what you're talking about.

How is that different from saying, "I run a virtual world, but there's no graphics." The most common reponse I get when I tell random people what our company makes is a blank stare. Most people have never heard of Everquest, much less text muds.

--matt

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by No, originally, muds were almost entirely commercial. It wasn't until about half-way through their lifetime so far (90 or 91 or so) that there began to be a lot of hobbyist muds.

The first MUD (which started in 1978) was hobbyist, although several years later (in 1984) it also became the first commercial MUD. This seems to be the trend which quite a few of the more successful free/hobbyist muds have (and are) following.

But as far as Welcor's post goes, I'd have to agree. Unless you're paying your staff full salaries, you're only going to be able to pick up those who can't get jobs in the real world. Look around in the free mud community and you'll find that almost all of the best mud coders are those who also make a living from software development - I'd much rather have someone like that who could put in 4 hours a week than someone without the skills to get a real paid job who was able to put in 40 hours a week.

[Wik]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ July 26 2003,23:27) "Lose" implies there's something to "win" and I don't think there is in the sense you're using the terms. Newsgroups aren't battles. They're attempts (or should be in my opinion. You're welcome to your own.) to arrive closer to some sort of truth about the subject at hand via a somewhat dialectic process. Everybody with sense "wins" when they gain knowledge or a better perspective on some issue even marginally relevant to his or her life. --matt

I'm sorry that you can't tell a bad Star Wars quote when you see it.

And bottom line, when you go into a discussion with an open mind, you learn more. I have never seen you budge or change your opinion on anything. Thus, it's not terribly useful to talk to you, except if I want a recitation of what the_logos thinks.

[Fifi]

Originally Posted by (welcor @ July 26 2003,15:26) As far as I see it, you can only put in 40 hours/week if you : c) aren't involved with a person of the other sex (or is involved with another mudder).

Yesterday on the radio the DJ said the show Queer eye for the straight guy was useful because straightmen are unable to dress themselves or decorate. Now, we find out that not only do gays and lesbians have better color coordination, but they also better coordinate their time!

I

I'm very bad to tease you, but I can't resist!

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ July 27 2003,03:20) Originally Posted by A standard mud might be described as "20000 rooms, triple tier remort, OLC, IMC, optional PK, Builders accepted".  Try running that past a random person on the street.  They won't be the least bit interested, in fact they won't even understand what you're talking about. How is that different from saying, "I run a virtual world, but there's no graphics." The most common reponse I get when I tell random people what our company makes is a blank stare.

Concepts of virtual reality are well known. They are dealt with in depth in metaphysics and epistomology, a very serious academic branch. I believe that a MUD which boasts simply "a virtual world with no graphics", rather than "15000 rooms, RP encouraged, 32 customized races, custom locker code", is much more likely to spark the interest of Joe RandomWebsurferWho'sNeverMUDded.
That said, if your MUD is just a cheap stock, Joe will inevitably discover that you did NOT, in fact, really make it from scratch and that, indeed, the people who DID make it from scratch are offering him a far superior product.
Imagine for a moment that you run the best, most successful stock MUD in the whole world. You are invited to a big real life dinner solely for successful MUD owners. Once there, while eating some fancy food, someone asks you if you had trouble setting up the non-blocking sockets. Your face turning a shade of red, you admit "Oh well, I just downloaded SMAUG.... I don't know what sockets are"

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by Concepts of virtual reality are well known. They are dealt with in depth in metaphysics and epistomology, a very serious academic branch.

I'm not sure where you live, but the average person on the street has not even heard the word epistemology before. I'm willing to bet most people reading this don't know that branch of philosophy studies without looking it up.

I was just trying to point out that saying "20000 rooms, remort, etc etc" to the average person on the street is no less confusing than saying, "I run a text mud."

--matt

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (KaVir @ July 27 2003,07:01) But as far as Welcor's post goes, I'd have to agree.  Unless you're paying your staff full salaries, you're only going to be able to pick up those who can't get jobs in the real world.  Look around in the free mud community and you'll find that almost all of the best mud coders are those who also make a living from software development - I'd much rather have someone like that who could put in 4 hours a week than someone without the skills to get a real paid job who was able to put in 40 hours a week.

Well, I'm unsure why you're equating coder to admin/staff. A coder is one type of an admin or staff member. The majority of our code is written by professional, full-time developers.

As for our excellent volunteer staff, the idea that they cannot put in a lot of time and have a real world job is erroneous. Many full-time jobs are only 40 hours a week. We have had a huge range of people volunteer to help the community, spending significant amounts of time. Some of them have been:
- Software developer for Ubisoft
- Runs her own porn busines.
- Was one of the Army's youngest Captains.
- Runs two martial arts dojos and fights in extreme fighting
events
- Student (of course)
- Legal clerk
- Chef in australia
- Hotel manager

I'm sure we're not alone here in having a diverse group of admins. The stereotypes that even some mudders have about other mudders are a bit off sometimes I think.
--matt