[Aeran]

On the frontpage of TMS there's 3 links in the bottom left corner to power leveling services for World of Warcraft.

Imagine if those links instead were "Achaea Powerleveling" or "Aardwolf Powerleveling" or any other 'respectable' MUD powerleveling service. I can imagine that such a service would be frowned at by most MUDs.

Does TMS support power levelling services?

[scandum]

Like most commercial ventures TMS probably supports earning $$$. Hence your opinion doesn't matter, unless of course you give TMS lots of $$$.

This is a basic example of the laws of relativistic morality; $$$ equals might, and might equals right.

[Aeran]

Originally Posted by scandum Like most commercial ventures TMS probably supports earning $$$. Hence your opinion doesn't matter, unless of course you give TMS lots of $$$. This is a basic example of the laws of relativistic morality; $$$ equals might, and might equals right.

But my opinion does matter and so does yours. The website is here because it targets a specific user group. We can decide at any time that it is over for TMS by leaving for another website. The website exists because we have registered our MUDs on the list which is its primary function. There are other websites we could use instead - or create a new one.

Besides can TMS really be taken serious by mmrpg players when one of the first things they see is advertisements for gold sellers - something many of them likely have had a horrible experiences with? Atleast I am ashamed to see such spam on one of the websites supposed to represent the community .

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by Aeran On the frontpage of TMS there's 3 links in the bottom left corner to power leveling services for World of Warcraft. Imagine if those links instead were "Achaea Powerleveling" or "Aardwolf Powerleveling" or any other 'respectable' MUD powerleveling service. I can imagine that such a service would be frowned at by most MUDs. Does TMS support power levelling services?

While I would be doing my best to ban any players violating our rules against multi-playing by allowing someone else to level up their characters does it really matter if TMS takes advertising from these services?

They've been there for quite awhile and nobody objected at all that I'm aware of until today. Can't be too big of a deal can it?

--matt

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by Aeran Besides can TMS really be taken serious by mmrpg players when one of the first things they see is advertisements for gold sellers - something many of them likely have had a horrible experiences with? Atleast I am ashamed to see such spam on one of the websites supposed to represent the community .

Let's not forget that the reason gold sellers exist is because many MMO players want their services.

--matt

[Brody]

I have a difficult time getting bent out of shape about that sort of advertising. This is a free site for us, generally speaking, but it's not free to *run it*. Were it not for that advertising and the banner ads purchased by games, we probably wouldn't have TMS at all.

His service. He has the right to subsidize it the way he wants. If a WoW goldbuyer inadvertently discovers text-based games that don't require a monthly fee or rep grinding or the institution of expansion packs that nullify the hours and hours and hours you spend building a character ... well, I'd count us lucky to get that new player among our numbers.

[Aeran]

Originally Posted by the_logos Let's not forget that the reason gold sellers exist is because many MMO players want their services.

Then we would have to accept that a MUD levelling service could be advertised on this website as well. After thinking some about it it might perhaps not be too bad.

[Lasher]

Originally Posted by Aeran Besides can TMS really be taken serious by mmrpg players when one of the first things they see is advertisements for gold sellers - something many of them likely have had a horrible experiences with?

If people had bad experiences with them it means they tried them. If they tried them, it means there is a demand for the service. It is not my role to judge "quality of service" on them any more than it is my role to judge "quality of game" when placing banner ads for MUDs.

With that being said, I have never played WoW and while ignorance is no excuse was not aware that gold sellers are such a big deal to them until a couple of weeks ago when I read an article on them going after a gold selling company in China. The ads are not being renewed - 2 of them have already been dropped (there were 6). In fact, our "advertise" page has stated that we no longer accept text links for a while now. I also would not accept ads in TMS for a "multiplaying service" in a game where multiplaying is against the T&Cs.

Sure, TMS is run to make a profit, but it's never going to be anyone's living. If 100 MUDs place banner ads tomorrow it still isn't going to be anyone's living. I know where the traffic comes from and if the traffic stops tomorrow I'll move onto something else with a 99% certainty it will be "something else" more profitable.

I took over this site because I believe in it - the chances of ever recovering the value of the time already spent on it is already pretty much zero. Why am I saying this? Because every other thread seems to have a gentle, or in this case not so gentle, "reminder" of "where the traffic comes from". Anyway, back to working on the database rewrite

[Aeran]

Originally Posted by Lasher I took over this site because I believe in it - the chances of ever recovering the value of the time already spent on it is already pretty much zero. Why am I saying this? Because every other thread seems to have a gentle, or in this case not so gentle, "reminder" of "where the traffic comes from". Anyway, back to working on the database rewrite

Sorry if you felt disrespected which was not my intention. I think you are doing a very good job with TMS.

The answer to scandum was to show him that companies are customer driven and that people can make a difference. It is often not so hopeless as people make things appear. In some free games I have played you often get the "this game is free so you can't complain". One of them went from 80 players down to 0. Appearently what the players thought did matter after all .

[Lasher]

Originally Posted by Aeran Sorry if you felt disrespected which was not my intention. I think you are doing a very good job with TMS.

Nah, not taken that way at all.

You are of course correct. - "It's a free service" only really carries any weight when all other "competing" services are not free.

[Threshold]

Getting revenue from WoW gold sellers seems like free money to me.

I wish PC Gamer would rethink their Blizzard butt kiss and take ads from gold sellers again. That just helps keep subscription costs down. Of course, I have always suspected the only reason they implemented that policy was either at Blizzard's direct behest or as an attempt to curry favor with Blizzard for more exclusive previews and screenshots. Because we all know that previews and screenshots are the most important and useful things in the universe... right?

[Lasher]

Originally Posted by Threshold Getting revenue from WoW gold sellers seems like free money to me. I wish PC Gamer would rethink their Blizzard butt kiss and take ads from gold sellers again. That just helps keep subscription costs down. Of course, I have always suspected the only reason they implemented that policy was either at Blizzard's direct behest or as an attempt to curry favor with Blizzard for more exclusive previews and screenshots. Because we all know that previews and screenshots are the most important and useful things in the universe... right?

You might be right, but the ads do look pretty spammy too, they just lower the overall look of the site imho.

[Rufton]

Originally Posted by Aeran Atleast I am ashamed to see such spam on one of the websites supposed to represent the community .

Let's not get too carried away. You might not like these ads but that doesn't make them spam. Spam is a serious problem caused by total scumbags who have no respect for anyone else. Let's not throw words like spam around lightly, because that actually just helps the real spammers. Just because you would rather not see a particular advert does not make it spam.

[Threshold]

Originally Posted by Lasher You might be right, but the ads do look pretty spammy too, they just lower the overall look of the site imho.

Don't get me wrong... I wasn't taking the opposite route and insisting you should have gold seller ads. My point is only that if you want to have them, and they help make the site profitable, I am 100% for it. I could care less about people buying or selling gold, powerlevelling, or netsex on WoW. If their ads help this site, its a bonus.

But if you don't like them or think they look bad, then certainly be rid of them.

[Milawe]

They do have quite an ugly ad. Everyone else's ad at least has some effort in it.

[scandum]

Originally Posted by Lasher I took over this site because I believe in it - the chances of ever recovering the value of the time already spent on it is already pretty much zero. Why am I saying this? Because every other thread seems to have a gentle, or in this case not so gentle, "reminder" of "where the traffic comes from". Anyway, back to working on the database rewrite

All things considered I find TMS as it currently works respectful toward the user base and I'm sure that'll eventually pay off. Especially considering the road TIC (The IRE Connector) has taken.

[cratylus]

TIC (The IRE Connector)

laff

-Crat
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