I am brand new to the MUD world and my first try ever was with Iron Realm's Achaea. First of all, you can not advance your charachter or gain levels without purchasing credits. They imply that it is free but in order to advance you will likely have to shellout at a minnimum $200.

Secondly, after I spent my money, I was effectivley blocked by the administration from accessing my charachter.

Thirdly, even though you purchase credits, other people in the game have the power to take them away from you if they do not like you. This results in you spending a lot of your time kissing peoples butts and doing things like writing essays about respect, not exploring.

Fourthly, your advancement is largely dependant on what a small group of elder players think. They are not welcomming towards new people and are very power hungry and eltetist.

Fifthly, once you dont fit in with one guild, or if you make the wrong guild choice, you will not be able to join another guild. This kind of behavior (guild switching) is totally prevented by the other players.

And lastly, after spending 200$ + here and haveing 50% + of that "taken away" by elder players who wanted me to write essays about respect, the admin refused to reinstate my charachter or refund my lessons. To qoute Mr. Mihlay, the CEO .. "You are not getting your money back, I will ban and delete you, you can go...****...yoursefl."

A warning to all those out there who are considering spending money with Iron Realms Entertainment...DO NOT DO IT. They are highly unethical people who will scam you. You buy credits, you switch guilds and loose 50%...forcing you to buy more. BEWARE OF UNETHICAL COMPANIES PREYING ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT EXPERIENCED MUDDERS!!!

[Enola_Phoenix]

Kimberly, I sympathise with you and now how stupid people can be, but don't be like them, the only thing you're going to do by spamming the forums is have all your post deleted, don't do that, if you feel people should know this post one forum and keep it alive. I'm sorry if you were screwed over by Achea, live and learn, and seek legal action , possibly call anyone of the Woccha internet help groups and they will do their very best to help you in anyway.

Thanks for the tip, I will contact them. Right now I just want to spread the wrod. When a company is run by bad people and encourages illegal and unethical behavior...word will get around. If I have to spam this baord every day so that every enw mudder goes in with a heads up I will. I will also contact, the BBB and various other consumer rights organizations. My goal is to do everything I can to put the word out there about my experience and hopefully loose Iron Realms a lot of buisness. Maybe they will learn that no matter what your field...customer service should always be a top priority.

[the_logos]

Chuckle. Of course, what you leave out is that you spent your time in Achaea demanding that the world conform to your expectations rather than playing the game as it is, threatening me repeatedly over the space of a dozen emails, complaining of OOC harrassment anytime another player did anything you didn't like, and so on.

And, of course, you were refunded your money, just to get you to go away.

Anyway, your psychotic behavior is underlined by your need to make so many different forum posts. Being "Kimberly'd" is now our code word for dealing with an insanely irrational player.

I'm not going to waste any more time replying to you.
--matt

[Angie]

By spamming the forum you are certainly not making yourself many friends around here - and you are putting yourself and your complaint into a bad light. Excessive spam is a banishable offence on all decent muds, so if it was this kind of attitude that got you banned, no wonder.

I expected no less of a reply from these people. Dont be concerned about their response, they just want people to pay and go to the site so they wills say whatever they need to. Truth of the matter is I am a hardworking educated and produtive member of society with many firends and a large family. As a consumer, I just want others who may be in shoes similar to mine: new to MUDS, have some cahs to spare and considering investing etc... to be aware that there is the potential here for you to be robbed.

[Hephos]

Sounds like you were refunded. Whats the fuss about... Most games don't refund you after buying their box and finding out you didnt like the game.

[imported_Synozeer]

Goodbye Kimberly.

Duplicate posts deleted, member deleted.

-Synozeer

[Amnon]

Don't go so Kimberly on her... she was just trying to get a point across (Had to find a reason to use that expression)

[Hardestadt]

I'm going to rebutt these points, as I expect sooner or later if someone doesn't some troll will dredge them up and quote them.

Preamble: I'm not an Achaean anymore, but I play Imperian quite a bit.

Originally Posted by First of all, you can not advance your charachter or gain levels without purchasing credits. They imply that it is free but in order to advance you will likely have to shellout at a minnimum $200.

This is a direct lie. You can gain levels quite merrily without buying a single credit and subsisting off the lessons you gain as you level. This is a rather elementary facet of the game. Achaea is free, and its pay-for-perks if you so desire.

Originally Posted by Secondly, after I spent my money, I was effectivley blocked by the administration from accessing my charachter.

I'm not familiar with the case in question, but I suspect this was due to you breaking the rules of the game. I'm sure the person in question knows precisely what happened. As their money was refunded, I don't believe they have grounds for complaint.

Originally Posted by Thirdly, even though you purchase credits, other people in the game have the power to take them away from you if they do not like you. This results in you spending a lot of your time kissing peoples butts and doing things like writing essays about respect, not exploring.

Noone other than Sarapis and Clementius have the power to take credits away from you. If you invest those credits in lessons, learn skills and then be an arse and get kicked out of the guild you are subject to lesson loss when you forget the guildskills in question.

Given that you were made to write an essay about respect, I'd assume you were extremely insulting to a guildhead or similar figure. And then you went and got kicked out? Go figure.

Originally Posted by Fourthly, your advancement is largely dependant on what a small group of elder players think. They are not welcomming towards new people and are very power hungry and eltetist.

Such is politics. If you want to be in an organisation, you have to follow their rules. You aren't required to join a guild in Achaea.

Originally Posted by Fifthly, once you dont fit in with one guild, or if you make the wrong guild choice, you will not be able to join another guild. This kind of behavior (guild switching) is totally prevented by the other players.

Another direct lie. Players can switch guilds whenever they choose. If they have passed novicehood they are subject to some lessons loss when they forget their skills, but everyone is 100% able to quit their current guild and join another.

Being a murdering Infernal and switching straight to being a saintly priest might be a bit out of role. Its hard to do, but its still very possible. Not everything in life is a walk in the park.

Originally Posted by And lastly, after spending 200$ + here and haveing 50% + of that "taken away" by elder players who wanted me to write essays about respect, the admin refused to reinstate my charachter or refund my lessons.

You are responsible for the consequences of your actions.

Originally Posted by To qoute Mr. Mihlay, the CEO .. "You are not getting your money back, I will ban and delete you, you can go...****...yoursefl."

I speak to Matt quite a bit, and that doesn't sound like him. He doesn't typo and is rather grammatically correct.

Originally Posted by A warning to all those out there who are considering spending money with Iron Realms Entertainment...DO NOT DO IT. They are highly unethical people who will scam you. You buy credits, you switch guilds and loose 50%...forcing you to buy more. BEWARE OF UNETHICAL COMPANIES PREYING ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT EXPERIENCED MUDDERS!!!

As a counterpoint, I've been an IRE customer for 5 years without a single unresolved problem in all that time. I'd consider that to be a good record for any game, especially one in a niche market.

Leigh
CTO
Persistent Realms LLC

[Dask]

I have been a player of IRE muds for 5 years (or more, it gets blurry when your oldest (existing) char is pushing 150 and you know there's another 20 years hidden hidden in other chars before him.

I didn't spend money for quite afew years and was quite happy. I have since spent money on not only Achaea, but also on Aetolia. I have been watching this Kimberly person from afar, seeing her first rant on the Achaea Forums, trying to gain sympathy, seen another long time player and well respected IG leader almost go crazy dealing with this person. Kimberly's first post basically went something to the effect of "I'm an Accountant, I'm better then you, bend over backwards and do as I commandeth, for I'm a graduate from college who paid you money" - if I were Matt, I wouldn't of even refunded her, considering that under the EULA they don't have to. She broke the rules. She HARASSED the Admin and other players. She acted like a spoiled brat and got a proverbial spanking for it, i.e., loss of character.

Kimberly'd....I like that one.

-Chris, one of those guys who loves IRE

[Kalt]

I have to echo the sentiments of Hardestadt and Dask. After more than a year of playing all three IRE games, I've never encountered anything at all like what Kimberly describes.

Her comments are so off base that I felt compelled to post just in case some new mudder passed by one of those excellent games based on the misguided rantings of one person.

[Kenjar]

I find it difficult to think this is anything more than a joke post, or simply someone who hates Achaea and made a bunch of things up to slander it. So, I won't bother doing any Rebutting, no matter how gratifying it would be, for the same reason that you shouldn't attack the Mist Dragon in Final Fantasy II until he solidifies. But this guy- he'll never solidify.

[Jaewyn]

I think Kalt has hit the nail on the head, this looks like "the misguided rantings of one person". You'll notice IRE staff are not concerned by the post, this is no doubt because they are confident the type of player that can't see this as a rant is the type of player they don't want. So in fact, the post is probably doing them a favour by "pre qualifying" their new players in a fashion. If things are as bad as they are described in the post, IRE would have gone out of business a long time ago due to lack of players.

Just for the record, I have never played an IRE mud or have anything to do with their admin.

[Brody]

Heh. Earlier today, this "misguided ranting" was being spammed on every single forum available on TMS - repeatedly, even after being removed, until Synozeer dealt with the spammer.

So, it's understandable to see some defensive posting going on, I think.

[Jazuela]

I'm just waiting for Molly O'Hara to chime in and claim that this Kimberly is actually an alt of IRE admin, intentionally spamming and getting the alt booted just to get a bunch of people to defend IRE and tell everyone how great the game is.

C'mon Molly - don't disappoint us - you KNOW you wanna!


Caveat: Whatever Achaea is doing, charging, not charging, charging double, stealing peoples' credit cards, sending their cousin Guido to their house making them an offer they can't refuse..whatever.. it's working. So good for them and STFU about it for everyone else.

[Yui Unifex]

Originally Posted by (Hardestadt @ Aug. 17 2004,20:17) Given that you were made to write an essay about respect, I'd assume you were extremely insulting to a guildhead or similar figure.

What I find the most amusing is 'guildheads or similar figures' making people write essays about respect. Do they also have to type their names on a board 200 times without triggers, or stand still outside the recall point holding buckets of water?

<span style='color:black'>I bet this is just a publicity stunt like that Aardwolf chat room, and this so-called 'Kimberly' is really an alt of an Achaea admin!</span>

<!--QuoteBegin--Hardestadt]
Given that you were made to write an essay about respect+I'd assume you were extremely insulting to a guildhead or similar figure.
[/quote-->[quote= (Hardestadt]
Given that you were made to write an essay about respect @ I'd assume you were extremely insulting to a guildhead or similar figure.
[/quote)]

Originally Posted by Yui Unifex   What I find the most amusing is 'guildheads or similar figures' making people write essays about respect.  Do they also have to type their names on a board 200 times without triggers, or stand still outside the recall point holding buckets of water?

I thought she made that up.  That's bizarre.  Writing essays?!!  Is this IC or OOC stuff?

[Valaria]

[quote= (Tyche @ Aug. 18 2004,02:40)]<!--QuoteBegin--Hardestadt]
Given that you were made to write an essay about respect+I'd assume you were extremely insulting to a guildhead or similar figure.
[/quote-->

Originally Posted by (Hardestadt Given that you were made to write an essay about respect @ I'd assume you were extremely insulting to a guildhead or similar figure. [/quote)] Originally Posted by Yui Unifex What I find the most amusing is 'guildheads or similar figures' making people write essays about respect. Do they also have to type their names on a board 200 times without triggers, or stand still outside the recall point holding buckets of water? I thought she made that up. That's bizarre. Writing essays?!! Is this IC or OOC stuff?

indeed. if i recall correctly, in few guild in achaea require essay. *shudder*

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Tyche @ Aug. 18 2004,02:40) I thought she made that up.  That's bizarre.  Writing essays?!!  Is this IC or OOC stuff?

I wish she was kidding. I'm going to talk about Achaea here, as of our games, it's the one I am by far the most familiar with (being lead designer on it).

One of the upsides of our game systems that in some areas of the game, most notably actually being able to learn skills, player organizations are extremely powerful. They serve to weed out twinks in that they enforce certain basic roleplay standards and simply deny a class to players who aren't fit to play that class. For example, the Druids guild may decide that a particular novice player doesn't have an understanding of what it means to serve and protect nature in Achaea, and so may require that said player go learn and then write a paper on the topic. Being kicked out of the guild before you've progressed to a certain point means you will simply lose your Druid skills entirely. This kind of real, tangible influence in the game is fantastic for immersion because it really does give players significant control, and I believe that the more control you can give players, the more tied into your world they're going to be. City of Heroes, for instance, is the antithesis of this idea. It's a great game, but a poor world. One feels no responsibility towards it in-game, because there's nothing you can actually affect.

On the other hand, this kind of real, tangible influence sucks sometimes. Once you hand significant control to a playerbase it's hard to take it back. They will resent it immensely. So, we've ended up with a situation where some of our guilds (guilds control access to classes) are extremely restrictive, requiring quite a lot of time and effort to get admitted. It does legitimately serve to cull out the people who want a standard hack & slash mud, but there's no doubt it drives away a significant number of players as well. Although 10 years ago when I was in college I would have eaten it up, now, with less free time on my hands, there's no way I'd be writing essays to play a mud, whether that's to create a character or to please a guild leader.

Anyway, we're just very reluctant to mess with the structures players have created and empowered. They're important parts of the world and it's hard to know how radical changes to their level of power will cascade down to the rest of the world. We did reduce the loss you can suffer from being kicked out of a guild at the apprentice stage (Kimberly's situation) from 50% to 10%, but that was because her situation was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, not because of her specifically.

Really, the fear is that by making life too easy and reducing the consequences for your actions vis a vis other players we might end up robbing Achaea of its soul. You can lose your niche by trying to appeal to too broad an audience outside that niche.
--matt
P.S. I only mention this because it's a potentially very interesting discussion that I'd like to participate in. I (and a good portion of the Achaea team) will be in Vegas the next few days on a team vacation. So, can't reply until I'm back on Sunday or Monday!

[Threshold]

Originally Posted by (Jazuela @ Aug. 17 2004,22:09) I'm just waiting for Molly O'Hara to chime in and claim that this Kimberly is actually an alt of IRE admin, intentionally spamming and getting the alt booted just to get a bunch of people to defend IRE and tell everyone how great the game is. C'mon Molly - don't disappoint us - you KNOW you wanna!

*chuckle*

[aardfrith]

I think this thread is quite amusing, though probably not for The_Logos and the rest of Achaea's admin. Personally, I have very little experience of Achaea itself but far too much experience of the attitude displayed here.

What I find amusing is that the player shelled out $200 on a game without questioning her actions or experiences. Throwing money at something you don't like is only likely to make you more resentful.

There are TONS of muds out there, offering quite different environments and player-bases. Most of them are completely free and don't even accept donations. To my mind, a true newbie should take their time sampling what's on offer before committing any money to mudding.

I am now a regular donator to my chosen mud, having played there for several years and found the experience wholly enjoyable. I can understand why people do the same thing for Achaea.

[Enola_Phoenix]

This is just another case of free-to-play, pay-to-win syndrome. She felt as though she payed so she whould somehow have standing above those who didn't or maybe even did. I agree with the earlier post, play a free mud, mudding is not for everyone, that is why it is concerned a niche game. Now I doubt that here entire post was incorrect, as I said in a previous post, reviews are based on ones perception of the game and interaction within the game, basically all she did was write a review, on the wrong board.

Since I have never played Achea and neither have some of the other posters, I have some questions, maybe The_Logos or even Achea players can answer, that will help everyone understand the Kimberly. These are serious questions, not meant to be taken in anyway except I have never played and I'm not trying to find flaws, so lets not start a flame war over wanting to know a few things, and to lazy to look on the webpage :-P.

1) You did a good job by rectifying her guild response. In most muds guilds are ran by NPC since they are normally class or race limited, and that is where one can only go to practice your spells and skills. Is this true for Achea, does a Druid have to be accepted into the Druid guild to learn his/her skills or train them?

2) I did visit the webpage concerning credits and saw values of up to $500+ for an item. I did see where it said you will not lose any of the credits you buy. Kimberly swore she had credits "taken away". Was she somehow misconstrued and believed one of the Immortals you listed were mortals with the ability take credits.

3) When did Matthew change his last name to Mihlay, or could it be a conspiracy of another Achaea world, ran by a Mr. Mihlay out to extuingish the mud monopoly created by Iron Realms, Inc. and mr. Mihaly.

Enquiring minds want to know, or well maybe just me, because I can't see that her entire rant was based on nothing, she felt as though she had something important to say, and possbily in this way you can shed some light onto the world of Achaea because like I said the credits remark is what interested me most, and there are no links or information concnering credits, and the ability to lose them other than the one small text box.

With no discontent (Not even for you Logos )

Enola_Phoenix

[Jazuela]

I'm guessing English isn't your first language Enola - if it is, then my second guess is a serious deficiency in language skills, or maybe even an attention problem. Here's the answers to your question, which were already posted on this thread and easy to read on page 2.

1) In ordered to learn certain skills that are only offered by certain guilds, you must be a member of that guild. If you leave that guild, you lost those guild-specific skills.

2) What was clear in reading Matt's response, was that no credits were taken away from Kimberly. She spent her credits on things - and those things were taken away because she abused the privilege of getting those things. She chose to spend her credits unwisely, in other words.

3) The_logos IS Matthew Mihaly. He didn't have to change his name to be that.

Finally - that sentence - your closing "With no discontent" - did you mean "With no disrespect?" I'm just curious about that..heh.

[Enola_Phoenix]

Originally Posted by (Jazuela @ Aug. 18 2004,11:26) 1) In ordered to learn certain skills that are only offered by certain guilds, you must be a member of that guild. If you leave that guild, you lost those guild-specific skills.

I'm guessing english is not your native language as well. In ordered good one. I'm not an english major I'm a law major. Yes Logos did a good job of explaining himself, but I still was not sure about the guild system, so therefore I asked.

Also, the credit question, was she was complaining about PEOPLE not Matt taking her credits, I wanted to clarify that only certain people had the right or power to take those, and not just for everyone else but for Kimberly to also see that people didn't take her credits, an immortal did.

and as far as Discontent, me and the_logos have went round and round on issues before, and It would be easy to view this post as negative, which it isnt, thats why I jokingly put that.

And as far as Mihaly name, it was a joke, because in Kimberly's original post, she mis-spelled his name and his quote.

Jazuela, quit trying to find fault in peoples post, you're only providing me with plenty of responses to critique of yours. I was trying to constructively add to the conversation, and what did you do, try to critique it instead of add to it.

If ANY of Achaea's member or management, could help me actually Clarify those things that I could not on the webpage, it would be great to hear your responses. Thank you.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Enola_Phoenix @ Aug. 18 2004,11:36) [Also, the credit question, was she was complaining about PEOPLE not Matt taking her credits, I wanted to clarify that only certain people had the right or power to take those, and not just for everyone else but for Kimberly to also see that people didn't take her credits, an immortal did.

Quick response here as I have a flight to catch:

Nobody -ever- takes credits away from a player unless it is a result of credit card fraud, and players, or even normal Gods, cannot take them away. On Achaea, only 4 of us (all paid, full-time employees) can do so. What Kimberly lost was lessons. You can spend credits on lessons, and also get lessons by rising in level through questing, hunting, etc. You can get credits by buying them from us or getting them as rewards or buying them from other players, in-game. You use lessons, incidentally, to raise skills.

Once you've spent credits, as the disclaimer says, the value of what you've spent them on may increase or decrease as a result of your actions or the actions of other players. Kimberly was unable to accept this, apparently feeling that anything another player did to her as part of the game system was, in fact, "us" (the administration) doing it to her.

Everything she lost (and I'll point out we completely refunded her money to get her to just go away, so she lost nothing in the end) she lost as a result of the game functioning normally and in accordance with help files on the subject. She just didn't like the way the game functions, which is kind of just tough luck. I was jokingly wondering if she thought she was playing a single-player game in which the other players were actually cleverly-scripted NPCs (as that would explain her apparent feeling that the game world should revolve around her view of how to play). Perhaps she thought the whole game experience was set up to screw her over. I have no idea, and am just glad she will not be playing our games anymore.

--matt

[Molly]

Originally Posted by Jazuela: Aug. 17 2004,229     -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm just waiting for Molly O'Hara to chime in and claim that this Kimberly is actually an alt of IRE admin, intentionally spamming and getting the alt booted just to get a bunch of people to defend IRE and tell everyone how great the game is. C'mon Molly - don't disappoint us - you KNOW you wanna!

Now why on earth would I do that, Jazuela, when you already have obliged?

Also, if you forgive me for pointing it out, it would be an extremely stupid conspiracy theory. This is one thread I believe the Achea Admin would prefer NOT to stay on top of the discussion board any longer than necessary.

So maybe you should think a bit longer before you hit the send button next time.

On a side-note to Jazuela:
It is very obvious by now that you have a strong personal dislike for me. I am not really sure what I did to deserve it, since to my knowledge I have never attacked either you or Armageddon in the past – in fact I have always regarded Armageddon as one of the best Muds on the net.

But no doubt you have some valid reason.

So, feel free to take your potshots at me any time you like, I can live with that. But please don’t insult me by assuming that I am stupid.

I am not.

[Jazuela]

Uh, I don't know you. You're just text on a website. I've never had a conversation with you, I've never met you..I've never even exchanged instant messages with you via AIM or whatever.

I might think you're a bit obtuse at times, and seem to enjoy taking shots at Matt (who I also don't know), and I might state that on occasion, but no, I have no particular dislike - or like - for you.

[Reyas]

Originally Posted by (Enola_Phoenix @ Aug. 18 2004,09:58) 1) You did a good job by rectifying her guild response. In most muds guilds are ran by NPC since they are normally class or race limited, and that is where one can only go to practice your spells and skills. Is this true for Achea, does a Druid have to be accepted into the Druid guild to learn his/her skills or train them? 2) I did visit the webpage concerning credits and saw values of up to $500+ for an item.  I did see where it said you will not lose any of the credits you buy. Kimberly swore she had credits "taken away". Was she somehow misconstrued and believed one of the Immortals you listed were mortals with the ability take credits. 3) When did Matthew change his last name to Mihlay, or could it be a conspiracy of another Achaea world, ran by a Mr. Mihlay out to extuingish the mud monopoly created by Iron Realms, Inc. and mr. Mihaly. Enquiring minds want to know, or well maybe just me, because I can't see that her entire rant was based on nothing, she felt as though she had something important to say, and possbily in this way you can shed some light onto the world of Achaea because like I said the credits remark is what interested me most, and there are no links or information concnering credits, and the ability to lose them other than the one small text box. With no discontent (Not even for you Logos ) Enola_Phoenix

I am a player on Achaea, and will try to answer these for you.

1> Guilds on Achaea are player-run. There ARE generally guild NPCs you can learn skills from if a guild member is unavailable to teach them. (Yes, you can use your lessons to learn from a fellow guild member). Generally speaking, you DO need to be accepted into a guild to learn guild skills.

2> Hmm. How to respond to this. Kimberly may have sworn that she had credits taken away, but this does not make it so. I can write the word "candy" on a box of matches and swear up and down the box contains candy, but that doesn't change the fact there are matches in there. She also, technically speaking, did not lose lessons either. She spent her credits on lessons, then spent her lessons on guild skills, then due to her own actions, was booted out of the guild. When leaving a guild, you lose your guild skills. She could just as well have spent the lessons on general skills and not have 'lost' anything.

3> She's an idiot. Each time she opens her mouth, she loses a little more credibility. Were she a tenth as educated as she claims to be, she would accept the fact the she is unwanted, has been given a full refund, and go on with her life. Instead she keeps trying desperate actions to win people over to her side, losing people who may have been sympathetic to her before with each post she makes, here and elsewhere.

I understand where you might say her rant couldn't be based entirely on nothing...but it is. You are right in that she feels she has something important to say, but that is as far as it goes. She may feel that way, fine...but I may feel the sky is purple with yellow clouds, and you're all morons for thinking it is blue. If I go around calling everyone a moron for thinking the sky is blue, how popular do you think I'm going to be? Everyone will rightly classify me as a moron myself, and crazy to boot.

[Brody]

Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Aug. 18 2004,13:28) This is one thread I believe the Achea Admin would prefer NOT to stay on top of the discussion board any longer than necessary.

I dunno, Molly - this thread, started by someone who comes off like a ranting loon and followed by quite a few supportive posts and rebuttals ... if I were the_logos, I'd want this thread to stay up as long as possible . Free publicity is great publicity.