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This is a discussion on "Muds with similar names" in the Top Mud Sites Legal Issues forum : Lasher recently drew my attention to an uncoming game called "Gods War", which obviously sounds rather similar to "God Wars". I was a little concerned about God of War and God of War II when they came out, but at least those were console games. Gods War, on the other hand, is graphical mud (MMORPG). While I don't really mind other games using similar names, my major concern is that they might try to force me to change the name of my game - although I imagine they'd have serious trouble trying to erase the ... |
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#1 |
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Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Location: München
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 1,935
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Lasher recently drew my attention to an uncoming game called "Gods War", which obviously sounds rather similar to "God Wars". I was a little concerned about God of War and God of War II when they came out, but at least those were console games. Gods War, on the other hand, is graphical mud (MMORPG).
While I don't really mind other games using similar names, my major concern is that they might try to force me to change the name of my game - although I imagine they'd have serious trouble trying to erase the last 12 years of God Wars history, not to mention the fact that there are around a hundred muds based on the GodWars codebase. I'm sure I'm not the first person to run into this issue, but I don't recall seeing any other muds deal with it (other than a few one-week-wonder muds, or two muds that split from the same game). Anyone have any thoughts on this matter? |
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#2 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Carrion Fields
Posts: 643
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I think the immediate problem you'd run into is that the name isn't very 'unusual', for lack of a better term. If anyone had a complaint, it would be Sony, as their product is roughly as similar in name, and much more widely known. (They also have additional legal steps in place, such as registered trademarks and such.)
Could you make the case that the MMORPG gameplay is based off of your work? I think with the name alone, you can't do anything about. I don't think changing your name is a good plan, since you'll lose branding, but you might want to adopt a second, more unique word as a subtitle, like: "Godwars, ____". At the very least, so people looking for you can rapidly find you by searching. |
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#3 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,160
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Quote:
A quick US trademark search shows that God of War is a registered trademark (by Sony) but God War and God Wars is not. I bet there's a decent chance that trying to trademark "Gods War" or "God Wars" as a game-related trademark would be rejected, in which case you've got nothing to worry about since if Sony was going to come after you for GodWars I'd imagine they'd have done it by now. --matt |
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#4 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 292
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You seem to worry an awful lot kavir.
I don't think any company would bother getting negative publicity by suing some underdog. They'd just spend a fraction of the money a lawsuit would cost to kick your google rating for those keywords below the first five pages, next forget about your existence just like anyone else. |
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#5 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Location: München
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 1,935
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#6 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 292
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#7 | ||
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,160
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Quote:
--matt |
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#8 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,160
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Do you really think the law expects people to look into the future and not use a trademark that someone else might, sometime in the future, decide to use? --matt |
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#9 | |||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 292
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Regarding Godwars, if anyone makes a trademark claim Kavir can state he's been using Godwars for over a decade without the one claiming to own the trademark complaining. |
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#10 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Name: Lamont
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 436
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Quote:
Of course, they've been different than this case though. Most of the one's I've heard of were based on a world that was already copyrighted, such as Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. It just doesn't happen that often. |
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#11 | |||
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,160
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Second, as Kavir isn't using "Godwars" in a commercial context, he doesn't have a trademark on "Godwars". If someone were to register "Godwars" (after having used it in a commercial context) tomorrow and the USPTO accepted the registration, and the new trademark owner decided to be an a-hole about things, it seems possible (to this non-lawyer at least) that he could go after Kavir and force him to stop using Godwars. It just seems unlikely to me, as I bet Sony would object to anyone trying to register "Gods War" in a video game context, and Sony hasn't come after Kavir. --matt |
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#12 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 292
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Quote:
--Scandum <span style='font-family:1'></span> |
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#13 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prague
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 131
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Didn't Fallout MUD have some problems with Interplay after they released Fallout I? I vaguely remember they were able to keep their name due to the fact that they had existed well before the CRPG.
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#14 | |
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Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Location: München
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 1,935
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#15 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 292
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#16 | ||
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Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Location: München
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 1,935
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#17 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 292
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From Wikipedia:
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Anyway, Angie addressed Fallout MUD which seems to indicate that prior existence might have some legal or social bearing. |
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#18 | |||
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Legend
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Location: München
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 1,935
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Quote:
Many of the game changes were simply renaming ICE names, such as changing the world name from Kulthea to Elanthia, and renaming the deities while keeping their previous characteristics. Renaming would be due to trademark infringement, which is also a type of intellectual property, rights to which can be granted by licence (for example the d20 System licence, which allows you to use various WotC trademarks). Quote:
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#19 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,160
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#20 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 213
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You do not have to be a commercial organization to apply for a trademark. Registering with the IRS as a not-for-profit organization would allow trademarking of the name. Non-profit organizations, which the God Wars community should qualify for (as they are both artisitic and for the public benefit), can apply for and receive trademarks. As an example of a non-profit winning a trademark case over a for-profit (commercial) enterprise see the WWF. You can also check your state to see if they allow trade name registration. I know I use a fictitious name for myself with my music, and it is registered in my state (and is listed on all my copyright forms as a pseudonym). Trade name registration would provide legal basis to show that the name is in use, especially if you choose to object to a company's trademark application. |
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#21 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,160
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Quote:
Also, I was incorrect earlier in saying that you had to register a trademark. In fact, you don't, in the US at least. It's just helpful in proving that you were there "first." As far as trade name registration goes, it'll differ greatly from state to state. In California, for instance, it goes by county, not state. Federal trademark law is just going to look at when the mark was first registered (which, again, require use in commerce or demonstrated intended use in commerce in some future time frame that I'm not sure of) or first used in commerce. --matt |
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#22 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 213
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"COMMERCE - The exchange of commodities for commodities. Considered in a legal point of view, it consists in the various agreements which have for their object to facilitate the exchange of the products of the earth or industry of man, with an intent to realize a profit. In a narrower sense, commerce signifies any reciprocal agreements between two persons by which one delivers to the other a thing, which the latter accepts and for which he pays a consideration. If the consideration be money, it is called a sale; if any other thing than money, it is called exchange or barter." There is a commerce exception for non-profits, and they may obtain trademarks. The WikiMedia Foundation for example is a non-profit with trademarks. As MUD codebases can be educational tools (both in learning programming and in promoting literacy) I see no reason why a codebase creater could not both form a non-profit and be declared a "small entity" for trademark purposes. But again, I am not a lawyer. Standard disclaimers still apply. |
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#23 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: DartMUD
Posts: 86
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At DartMUD, we had a help file called 'Allocations For Dummies" and we received a Cease and Desist Letter from IDG's sharks. Apparently they found the helpfile in some kind of google trawl.
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#24 | ||
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,160
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Quote:
Pulling definitions from dictionaries is not helpful, incidentally, for arguments rooted in specific disciplines, since the specific meaning of words that are bound up in that discipline usually differs, often significantly, from usage outside of that discipline. Quote:
Can you cite? In any case, one isn't needed since non-profits are free to engage in commerce. Here's the relevant section of the USPTO rules on its own website. Of course, plain language on a website is no substitute for a lawyer's advice on a specific issue, so don't don't take this as gospel: --------------------------------- "What is "use in commerce"? For the purpose of obtaining federal registration, "commerce" means all commerce that the U.S. Congress may lawfully regulate; for example, interstate commerce or commerce between the U.S. and another country. "Use in commerce" must be a bona fide use of the mark in the ordinary course of trade, and not use simply made to reserve rights in the mark. Generally, acceptable use is as follows: For goods: the mark must appear on the goods, the container for the goods, or displays associated with the goods, and the goods must be sold or transported in commerce. For services: the mark must be used or displayed in the sale or advertising of the services, and the services must be rendered in commerce." ------------------------------ --matt |
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#25 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
Home MUD: Tears of Polaris
Posts: 218
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Key word there being service, a MUD is an entertainment service(though some could also be called educational services).
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#26 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,160
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Quote:
--matt |
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#27 | ||
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 213
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Quote:
I misunderstood the "small entity" provision for lower cost when I thread read it. After rereading the source I retract the non-commerce exception that I posted. I was incorrect. The key (in the USA) to any small, not-for-profit organization (and I would gather MUD codebase development groups and other "hobbyist" organizations as well) to be able to get a trademark would be to apply for and receive non-profit status within their own state. Again, I am not a lawyer. Post only for purposes of discussion. Blah, blah...standard disclaimer. |
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