[locke]

Originally Posted by Mabus And at that point he violated the DIKU license, removing any permission to modify the DIKU source. Every modification, including additions, to the source from that point on was in violation of the license.

No, it is a transformative work with significant changes in meaning. If what you said was true, there would be no derivative nor transformative works.

[Mabus]

Originally Posted by locke No, it is a transformative work with significant changes in meaning. If what you said was true, there would be no derivative nor transformative works.

Let me break this down for you again, as you cannot seem to understand it.

From the DIKU license:

You may not remove any copyright notices from any of the documents or sources given to you.

You did that, which violated the rule stated in the license.

You are allowed to alter DikuMud, source and documentation as long as you do not violate any of the above stated rules.

Since you violated the license, from that point you were no longer allowed to alter the source.

Even you are smart enough to understand that.

[locke]

Originally Posted by Mabus Let me break this down for you again, as you cannot seem to understand it. You did that, which violated the rule stated in the license. Since you violated the license, from that point you were no longer allowed to alter the source.

No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

[Mabus]

Originally Posted by locke No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone.

I didn't write the DIKU license.

Are you stating I incorrectly quoted the license? Please clarify.

Originally Posted by locke Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

First, you are not a moderator of this board. If the staff of this board has an issue with any of my posts I am sure they will address the issue.

Second, I have not stated "I created YouTube" as you have (Steve Chen, Chad Hurley and Jawed Karim created it). I have not stated "Yes, my cousin is a COL POLAD who helped shut down Gitmo." as you have (GITMO is very much still open). I also did not violate the DIKU license as you have.

Those issues have "already been established".

[locke]

No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by locke No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

They are not his opinions and his alone. You're the only one with an opinion unsupported by anything or anyone. The only thing you've proven is that you're a liar and a delusional one at that.

[locke]

No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

[Wik]

I do believe we broke him.

[prof1515]

He's probably curled up in a corner rocking back and forth while saying, "I invented OLC. I invented YouTube. I invented the internet. I invented English."

[locke]

As a transformative work, it does not have to follow the license. A transformative work is one that is significantly different than what it was based on. For this reason, I do not have to follow the license.

Line length of files in nimud package:

1903 admin.c 792 admin_edit.c 1929 admin_info.c 181 alias.c 44 ascii.c 1016 bit.c 864 board.c 104 castles.c 52 client.c 3554 combat.c 970 config.c 55 convert.c 145 crypt.c 1163 def.c 210 disease.c 732 door.c 5999 edit.c 284 events.c 5284 functions.c 154 furn.c 429 grammar.c 775 graphics.c 1745 handler.c 209 html.c 4610 info.c 2348 interpreter.c 138 language.c 137 lists.c 3866 load.c 852 magic.c 1570 map.c 1166 map2.c 2347 mem.c 541 money.c 42 mood.c 252 mount.c 1595 move.c 71 mssp.c 86 mssp_client.c 301 mssp_tables.c 1511 nanny.c 2429 net.c 1094 parser.c 3178 props.c 1352 save.c 1270 shop.c 147 sigsegv.c 1052 skills.c 1697 social.c 52 spells.c 2022 string.c 764 telopt.c 56 tips.c 413 track.c 120 translate.c 2151 update.c 102 warmth.c 498 worldgen.c 199 xrand.c 39 board.h 2 client.h 85 defaults.h 63 edit.h 15 fight.h 523 functions.h 36 graphics.h 105 magic.h 29 mem.h 16 mood.h 198 mssp.h 86 net.h 238 network.h 3959 nimud.h 487 script.h 27 shop.h 10 sigsegv.h 63 skills.h 470 spells.h 61 telnet.h 9 worldgen.h 186 horror.c 1994 net_macfix.c 3 Charlatan-attack_script.txt 1 Confession_script.txt 7 Foglad_script.txt 3 Ghorlad_script.txt 1 Scroll_script.txt 87 adventurer_script.txt 85 aelmon-shipmate_script.txt 30 army_of_darkness_script.txt 11 assistant_script.txt 3 assister_script.txt 15 asynthia-dishwasher_script.txt 3 auto-mount_script.txt 2 avoider_script.txt 5 baillion-born_script.txt 6 baillion-enter_script.txt 42 baillion-hirelings_script.txt 5 bains-greeting_script.txt 12 basler-sentence_script.txt 3 begger-ask_script.txt 3 begger-gives_script.txt 4 black_hole_script.txt 4 bombing_script.txt 7 captain-say_script.txt 8 captain-snore_script.txt 3 charlatan-assist_script.txt 2 charlatan-bounty_script.txt 3 charlie_script.txt 3 chicken_script.txt 7 cigarette_script.txt 12 cit-weather_script.txt 2 citizen-killed_script.txt 10 cooshee-follow_script.txt 20 dishwasher_script.txt 6 disposer_script.txt 11 dockmaster-zalufin-kess_script.txt 6 dog_script.txt 19 dragon-staff_script.txt 3 enter-bite_script.txt 3 exec-each_script.txt 15 faernkad_script.txt 6 fast-mover_script.txt 40 ferryman-delivers_script.txt 11 ferryman-gets_script.txt 3 ferryman-greet_script.txt 9 ferryman-vlaz_script.txt 4 fight-bite_script.txt 10 fisherman_script.txt 7 frallad-quest_script.txt 5 galleybot_script.txt 16 gate-knock_script.txt 3 giant-history_script.txt 9 giant-throw_script.txt 4 goat_script.txt 6 grin-bounce-hop-flip_script.txt 3 guard-citizen-assist_script.txt 3 gurgle_script.txt 3 hallway-sound_script.txt 51 hovelcovel-dreams_script.txt 3 innkeeper-greet_script.txt 42 ithian-caravan_script.txt 12 jester_script.txt 5 keeper-trace_script.txt 29 kess-zalufin-route_script.txt 23 king-pay_script.txt 5 kltara-aggro_script.txt 3 kltaran-archer_script.txt 5 kltaran-cleric_script.txt 11 konith_script.txt 5 librarian-hush_script.txt 9 librarian_script.txt 5 long_disposer_script.txt 25 lormos-shipwrecked_script.txt 7 marauder_script.txt 16 marine-script_script.txt 7 max-greet_script.txt 9 merc-born_script.txt 2 merc-dies_script.txt 9 merc-eage_script.txt 5 merda-greet_script.txt 31 mine_script.txt 5 missus-frallad_script.txt 20 missus-gets_script.txt 9 move-four-west_script.txt 19 mudman_script.txt 4 necro-attack_script.txt 22 necro_ethereal_aid_script.txt 1 new script_script.txt 2 nogive_script.txt 5 nosod-enter_script.txt 9 oliphant_script.txt 7 panel_script.txt 3 peasant-tribunal_script.txt 11 pet-dog_script.txt 15 pilot_script.txt 8 proc-citizen_script.txt 6 put-all-backpack_script.txt 5 put-money-in-pouch_script.txt 4 quick_disposer_script.txt 20 radio_script.txt 3 random-static_script.txt 2 recruit-follow-born_script.txt 7 recruit-taunt_script.txt 3 ressat-greeting_script.txt 7 rose-bow_script.txt 16 royal-guard-1_script.txt 9 savage-bandit_script.txt 5 scallywag-bartender_script.txt 6 scrambler_script.txt 125 seacaptain-list_script.txt 11 sheriff_script.txt 102 shipmate-intrepid_script.txt 5 shipmate-shipwrecked_script.txt 103 shipmate_script.txt 17 singe_script.txt 2 sit-born_script.txt 3 sit-when-born_script.txt 3 sit_script.txt 2 sleep_script.txt 2 sniff-snuff_script.txt 23 snipe-360_script.txt 3 snipe-enter_script.txt 8 songbird_script.txt 3 spasm_script.txt 2 speak-mudaki_script.txt 1 spell-animate-dead_script.txt 19 spell-firestream_script.txt 18 spell_brimstone_script.txt 4 spell_find_familiar_script.txt 17 spell_iceblast_script.txt 16 spell_icesword_script.txt 16 spell_singe_script.txt 18 spell_smartstorm_script.txt 4 spell_water_heal_script.txt 16 spell_waterspirit_script.txt 17 spell_waterwall_script.txt 5 stablehand-enter_script.txt 147 stablehand-sell_script.txt 32 tanzer-choice_script.txt 7 tanzer-greet_script.txt 16 taug_portal_script.txt 7 tersa-greet_script.txt 7 testing_script.txt 33 tetrazon-summon_script.txt 9 thilonenne-druid_script.txt 20 thilonenne-quarterstaff_script.txt 8 tiktuan-aggro_script.txt 5 town-crier-2_script.txt 111 town-crier_script.txt 38 trynt-to-arena_script.txt 1 unused_script.txt 2 vagabond-bounty_script.txt 3 vagabond-steal_script.txt 5 vassal-spar_script.txt 23 vlazgad-to-trynt_script.txt 7 wailing-savant_script.txt 16 waterspirit_script.txt 3 wife-assist_script.txt 13 winery-worker_script.txt 10 wolf-pet_script.txt 30 zalufin-kess-route_script.txt 371 README 49 cleanup 3 go 444 manifest.txt 88 package 8 perlstart 56 recompile 29 refresh 0 src 4 start 46 startup 1 stop 82037 total

Original Merc 2

1598 act_comm.c 1454 act_info.c 984 act_move.c 2058 act_obj.c 2274 act_wiz.c 1736 comm.c 1081 const.c 2266 db.c 1501 fight.c 1376 handler.c 1623 interp.c 2194 magic.c 342 save.c 706 special.c 801 update.c 1602 merc.h 26 startup 23622 total

82037
-------- = 0.28794324512110389214622670258542
26322

Considering only the source code and related scripts:
Even without comparing content of individual lines, we can see that if I had just inserted "Merc" into the NiMUD package and then wrote stuff around it, Merc would only constitute 28.79432...% of the content that is included in NiMUD 5. If you compare the lines of code, you would determine that the actual content that is still Merc/Diku is an even smaller percentage, probably around 10% though I don't really know and do not plan on doing a case study involving a diff. Since a majority is >50%, you can easily say the majority of the content in NiMUD is original and therefore not Merc/Diku MUD. Because of this, you can say it is a transformative work. Since it is a transformative work, it is NOT a derivative but instead a "transformation" of the original Merc/Diku MUD into something totally new. Therefore, NiMUD is mine and does not need to follow any licenses by Diku or Merc or anyone else.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by locke As a transformative work, it does not have to follow the license. A transformative work is one that is significantly different than what it was based on. For this reason, I do not have to follow the license. ...Even without comparing content of individual lines, we can see that if I had just inserted "Merc" into the NiMUD package and then wrote stuff around it, Merc would only constitute 28.79432...% of the content that is included in NiMUD 5. If you compare the lines of code, you would determine that the actual content that is still Merc/Diku is an even smaller percentage, probably around 10% though I don't really know and do not plan on doing a case study involving a diff. Since a majority is >50%, you can easily say the majority of the content in NiMUD is original and therefore not Merc/Diku MUD. Because of this, you can say it is a transformative work. Since it is a transformative work, it is NOT a derivative but instead a "transformation" of the original Merc/Diku MUD into something totally new. Therefore, NiMUD is mine and does not need to follow any licenses by Diku or Merc or anyone else.

Even if 0.00000001% of it is Diku or Merc it's not your property and you have no right to claim someone else's work. Your code, and by that I mean the code of the person who likely wrote it and from whom you simply leeched off, is still a derivitive and and thus subject to the terms of the Diku license.

Posting long segments of code doesn't change anything. The original work wasn't your's and thus you're a thief if you don't provide the proper credit. All you're proving by your repeated denials is that you're an egotistical moron, a fool with a sub-par IQ who is so much less than he thinks he is.

Why not save some face and just acknowledge that you're wrong? Everyone here knows it and can see that. Repeating the same tired disproven opinions won't change that fact.

[locke]

Originally Posted by prof1515 Even if 0.00000001% of it is Diku or Merc it's not your property and you have no right to claim someone else's work. Your code, and by that I mean the code of the person who likely wrote it and from whom you simply leeched off, is still a derivitive and and thus subject to the terms of the Diku license.

No, that's just not how the law works. I suggest reviewing the information at Stanford posted earlier about transformative works. Also, your claims that I "leeched work" are unfounded and wouldn't hold weight without evidence. You can make all the outlandish claims you want but without any real hard evidence (of topics in which I have quite thoroughly proven the opposite) it won't be considered as fact.

Originally Posted by prof1515 Posting long segments of code doesn't change anything. The original work wasn't your's and thus you're a thief if you don't provide the proper credit. All you're proving by your repeated denials is that you're an egotistical moron, a fool with a sub-par IQ who is so much less than he thinks he is.

I have to say, "Mr Grammar Cop", that "your's" is not a word or valid contraction. I think you meant "yours" -- well obviously you're a child or at least an immature person because other people don't seem to take pot shots at my ego while delivering their retorts. You also don't apparently know what code is, considering I haven't posted any. I posted the output of the linux command "wc"

Originally Posted by prof1515 Why not save some face and just acknowledge that you're wrong? Everyone here knows it and can see that. Repeating the same tired disproven opinions won't change that fact.

Because I'm not wrong, not "everybody" sees it your way and frankly I'm tired of changing your diaper.

[Mabus]

Originally Posted by locke transformative works.

A few problems:
1) You have no "compelling public interest" for the transformative work to exist.
2) Your usage is not a parody, nor for purely informative or educational purposes.
3) Amount and Substantiality of the original work is extensive.
4) A modified DIKU is still available for sale. Your usage could cause harm.
5) The main body of DIKU is "a multi-user online text game", as is your derived work.
6) You lost any "fair use" when you violated the software license.

You're grasping at straws when you are trying to claim it as a "transformative work".

Also remember that software is not art and music. Courts have given more leeway to artists then to software developers, as deriving a work in art deals with impressions while using another coder's code (and claiming it as your own) is usually considered theft and/or piracy.

And then there is that whole sticky issue that US Copyright Law does not apply with DIKU. You might want to check into "Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 May 2001 on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society " and "Copyright law of the European Union" (as well as treaties between the US and the European Union dealing with intellectual property).

I will leave you with this:
There are places that offer free mental health screening and aid. There is nothing wrong with having issues. You may want to seek help.

[Samson]

This whole issue of "transformative works" does not even seem to be set in law yet?
FindLaw's Writ - Hilden: The Organization for Transformative Works and Its Bid to Protect Fan Fiction Are Its Proposed Changes to Copyright Law, Creating Immunity for Suits Against FanFic, a Good Idea?
I mean, they're still debating it in terms of proposed changes as far as I can find through Google.

[locke]

Thanks for all of your unsubstantiated claims (and some boldfaced lies). See ya in the game!

[Baram]

Your code is NOT "transformative work" it is a DERIVATIVE and always will be, and therefore subject to the DIKU license.

[gth]

Originally Posted by locke Therefore, OLC is not mine and does not need to follow any licenses by me or anyone else

There, fixed it for you.

[locke]

No, it's not a derivative because it is transformative and falls under "fair use".

1. The Transformative Factor: The Purpose and Character of Your Use In a 1994 case, the Supreme Court emphasized this first factor as being a primary indicator of fair use. At issue is whether the material has been used to help create something new, or merely copied verbatim into another work. When taking portions of copyrighted work, ask yourself the following questions: Has the material you have taken from the original work been transformed by adding new expression or meaning? Was value added to the original by creating new information, new aesthetics, new insights and understandings?

o.o
D

-.o
o

For NiMUD, the answer to both of these questions is a resounding and obvious "yes"; I have provided substantial evidence for this in previous posts. Anyway, I'm done here. It's obvious to me there is no way to settle this argument with you, so unless you are going to file some sort of court action against me, which you can't, I suggest dropping it. As a show of good faith, I am not going to post on this thread again. Feel free to lie yourselves into whatever you would like to convince yourselves of. Cheers.

[Samson]

Except for the part where Mabus already explained why this is not the case.

And for the part that "transformative work" isn't something that seems to be valid law as all the links I can find point to it being proposed changes to the law that the US Congress has not taken up yet. The copyright.gov website has only one link directly dealing with the subject, which is the PDF document those wackos from the fanfic site submitted to them. You're behaving just like them in that your argument sounds like you wish to deprive Diku of their rights in the same manner they want to allow fanfic writers to deprive the original authors of their rights.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by Locke I am a code thief.

Originally Posted by gth There, fixed it for you.

There. Fixed it for both of you.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by locke No, that's just not how the law works. I suggest reviewing the information at Stanford posted earlier about transformative works. Also, your claims that I "leeched work" are unfounded and wouldn't hold weight without evidence. You can make all the outlandish claims you want but without any real hard evidence (of topics in which I have quite thoroughly proven the opposite) it won't be considered as fact.

The post on transformative works has already been proven not to apply to your theft.

Your claims of authorship and thus ownership are not proven by any evidence and in light of your similar claims regarding YouTube are highly subject to doubt.

Just as a prosecutor must prove guilt, copyright requires evidence to prove that one has legitimate claim of ownership. You have not established any evidence to that effect that wasn't created by you after the fact and in denial of the facts, namely the fact that you used Diku in violation of the license.

...other people don't seem to take pot shots at my ego while delivering their retorts.

I must admit to a certain perverse pleasure at deflating the egos of narcissists. Watching a person with a hyper-inflated opinion of themself flail against reality is slightly enjoyable, even more so when that person is an ass. Thus in your case it's very enjoyable. It's with a grin that I know you will seeth and that your egomaniacal need to maintain your delusional view of the world will result in your compulsion to respond.

Because I'm not wrong, not "everybody" sees it your way....

So far I haven't seen anyone agree with your claims. If someone does agree (any of your possible multiple personalities are disqualified) then, by all means, name them.


*listens to the crickets chirping*

[Threshold]

This thread is made out of win.

[Delerak]

Locke reminds me of those guys on Judge Judy who keep trying to talk and she just says, "Shut up, I'm talking!".

Haha. And then the verdict is rendered by law and he still refuses to accept it.

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by locke As a transformative work, it does not have to follow the license. A transformative work is one that is significantly different than what it was based on. For this reason, I do not have to follow the license.

Here's an article you may find of interest: Digital Law Online: New Software from Old

In particular, the first and last paragraphs of the Piecewise Reimplementation section:

"Many people have reimplemented computer programs by rewriting them to replace the source code with code of their own writing. There is no reason to believe that this would not be a copyright infringement, particularly if the reimplementer had access to the source code of the original program, even if none of the original source code remains."

"Even if you completely replace the program with new code, nonliteral elements also protected by the original program’s copyright are likely to remain and infringe – elements like the overall program structure or architecture and data structures that are not dictated by external or efficiency considerations. Although there is no case law on this point, it would seem that the only way to break the chain of infringing works is by some extraordinary act, such as a clean room implementation."

[dentin]

Locke,

I've done copyright research and analysis for a very large company with the team of lawyers collectively known as the Nazgul, and they were VERY explicit about this matter. Your work is clearly derivative, and claims otherwise would fall flat immediately in an american court of law.

It's problems like this that make me thankful over and over that I actually wrote AA from scratch. It was worth the extra effort.

-dentin
Alter Aeon MUD - An Online RPG

[Parnassus]

Originally Posted by KaVir You copied the Diku-derived source code into another file, leaving out only the copyright notice. That is the same as removing the copyright notices.

But doesn't this mean he removed the code from the copyright rather than the copyright from the code? Of course though, this is probably the same thing to any REASONABLE...um, no, sorry...

Moving on, I hadn't heard of this transformative vs derivative thing before so I find this discussion very interesting. I admit that I can see what fanfic writers are getting at but using it in different context confuses me.

Does this mean that if I removed an engine from a parked car, removed the car and left the engine there, then bought an engine and placed it in the car, it becomes a transformative car? Or would I need to keep the engine, take it apart and replace most of the parts before putting it back in the car?

[WarHound]

Originally Posted by Threshold This thread is made out of win.

Agreed. I don't understand half the legalese here, but I get the jist of it which boils down to "Uh huh!" followed by "Nuh uh!" and then in a big circle.

Good stuff, guys.

I also invented fire. Prometheus is just a thief and a LIAR. He owes me billions by now.

[Zivilyn]

This does actually bring up a question to me, if I create a new source file in my game, do I then go and put Diku/Merc credits at the top of it? (I mean an honestly NEW source, not just chopping up parts of act_wiz.c and putting them into new files ;p).
IE. Say I write behavioral code for a mob AI and put it in behave.c, should I then put the Diku/Merc/Rom credits at the top of that file as well?

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by Zivilyn This does actually bring up a question to me, if I create a new source file in my game, do I then go and put Diku/Merc credits at the top of it? (I mean an honestly NEW source, not just chopping up parts of act_wiz.c and putting them into new files ;p).

Creating a new file doesn't guarantee that it won't be a derivative (as it might include code copied in whole or part from elsewhere), but if you've written it from scratch without conscious copying then IMO you shouldn't add the Diku copyright notice to that file.

[Baram]

That file wouldn't need it, but if ANY piece (even one line) of the whole game was taken from DIKU then it is a derivative and must follow the license (put them in the credits, etc). I look at it in the same way that the USG does security classification, if I have a 100 page document and 1 sentance is SECRET then the whole document is SECRET (and I just mark which one is, ie put the DIKU license on that page of the source).