[Kyndig]

Is MudCompanion Magazine issue #4 out yet? Anyone receive it? I've sent 3 emails now to their addresses, and have not received a reply. Their site shows that the issue was mailed out in August.

Thanks for any info,
Kyndig

[Ntanel]

As I said before, due to certain time restraints, it just has not been sent out yet.

[Lotius]

I, for one, was unaware of this as well until just a couple days ago. This information should be updated on the website as to not confuse people. I know that everyone gets busy, but a quick email out to the list of the subscribers would ensure they know why their issue isn't there. :)

Lotius

[Robbert]

Agreed. I've seen nothing 'said before', and would reasonably assume that this information would be reflected on the official webpage somewhere. In fact, the webpage specifically states that:

Originally Posted by Update: 08/28/02: Issue #4 has returned from the printers, and mailing begins this week. If you are still waiting for a previous subscription order, your back issues will be mailed this week.

I for one am not very satisfied with the level of service provided by Mud Companion. It is certainly a worthy publication, but it could use one helluva boost in the customer relations department.

I am a subscriber and contributing author to Mud Companion, but would not know myself as either from the amount of response received. I do not intend to renew my subscription without seeing a significant improvement in this area, both in official correspondence and the quasi-official responses such as the one given by you, Ntanel.

[Samson]

I for one won't be renewing regardless. If they're willing to delay this long ( and I had actually forgotten it was overdue until Orion mentioned it ) and not say anything, what's to stop them from deciding to take 6 months per issue from now on? It's a quarterly magazine. That means deadlines. If you can't meet them, you don't deserve to get paid.

[Ike]

oo diss

[Astin]

I have yet to receive my issue either but I emailed the subscriptions department and the information department at least twice if not more times each inquiring about the fourth issue. I waited for a while and still I got no response even letting me know that my email was received. When I do get the magazine I enjoy reading it and as for the delay I mean it’s only in it’s first year and as with anything “shi- happens”. I think I’ll give it another year and see if thing get better. The waiting wouldn’t be so aggravating if you could get a response from customer relations departments or a quicker status update. The latest status update was on the 28th of august saying that it’s back from the printer and will be mailed that week…that was over 6 weeks ago and I’ve received nothing or heard anything. Which leads me to a question if it hasn’t been sent out when is someone going to update that notice on the Website?

-- Astin

[Iluvatar]

In their defense, I will say I've thoroughly enjoyed the first three issues and a teeny inside bit of knowledge tells me that a large part of it is quantity of articles and high standards for each issue that delays mailing. I think my money was well spent though but I'm waiting for issue #4 before I resubscribe.

Hmm, this new one should be around 32 pages? Perhaps Sir Thoric should offer a freebie advertisement for your pet Mu* in the issue you get a story published in, even a short text one. Even I might get off my butt as Neranz has requested and submit an article for that kind of motivation. Quarterly is a royally nasty thing when you depend on volunteer submissions and I certainly don't envy him.

[Neranz Laverani]

You can get a free advertisement for you MU* by including it in your bio when you write an article. People generally read the bios to see why the author feels they are knowledgable enough to be writing the article.

I will admit I am partially to blame for the lateness of the issue as once again my submission was late.

(On a bit of a side note, I have been thinking about the decreasing amount of time I spend doing anything mud related and have decided to take a sabbatical of sorts from mudding until the children are at least teenagers.)

As far as the comment about not getting paid. No one is getting paid for this. Knowing at least US Postal Rates, I would not be surprised at all if Thoric is loosing money.

I still think The Mud Companion is a great idea. I will continue to subscribe. If you have liked it in the past, help keep it going by submitting articles. That is what it needs to be successful.

Neranz Laverani, Seeker of Knowledge

[Robbert]

The point is, Mud Companion has entered into a contractual obligation with its subscribers, which it has failed to meet. Furthermore, the information on its website is misleading at best, or deliberately falsified at worst. How that information is taken is up to theindividual reader and has, in my opinion, been handled well by the subscribers.

Nevertheless, I reiterate: Mud Companion has contracted to provide a service in exchange for a medium (read: money). It has failed to do so.

History can show you many occasions wherein the content was worthy, yet the provider failed to adequately satiate his or her customer base.

I do not believe Mud Companion is at the point of self-defeat - YET. But I do think they are very close to achieving that goal.

I purchased a quarterly subscription, and I want what I purchased.

Failing that, I would like to see the webpage updated with information, and not find it second hand on a seperate discussion forum.

Failing THAT, I would appreciate feedback as a subscriber from the company to which I have subscribed, updating me as to the status of their product.

Failing that, I will not renew my subscription.

[Samson]

You're far too patient Robbert.

If this had been a major publication, like, say.... Time Magazine, and they failed to provide your monthly issue in a timely manner, would you not be on the phone with them in a heartbeat to demand a reason for why you only got 11 of 12 issues? I sure would. MC may only be a small publication, but as you pointed out they are under an obligation to provide what they've promised. They've failed to provide this, and the website is sadly lacking in any justified reason for it. To this day, nearly 2 months later, the site STILL says issued were being mailed at the end of August. I know the US postal system is slow, but this is simply not acceptable. It would also take maybe 5 minutes to log in, edit the page, and keep some people happy. For me, it's just too late. Nothing they could do short of giving me a free 5th issue would get me to renew at this point.

[Loremaster]

Just out of curiosity, how much is a subscription?

[Lotius]

http://www.mudcompanion.com/subscriptions.php

A yearly subscription is $10 US. This includes 4 quarterly issues and the shipping & handling cost. Individual issue orders cost more per issue and you have to pay shipping and handling on it as well.

Lot

[Skorpian]

IMO, TMC is advertising a service they can't provide.

I signed up for TMC in March this year, and have yet to receive a single issue (I asked to be sent the most recent one).

TMC could get in big trouble - accepting money from people, then giving them nothing for it.

[Robbert]

Now it's November, and still no change to the www.mudcompanion.com page.

I've demanded return of $7.50 through Paypal - $2.50 for the failure to provide my fourth issue for the year, plus $5.00 for the effort. At this point, Mud Companion has failed to meet its obligation to me. I'm also going to mail them a letter asking for my free issue for being published in them.

[Samson]

Here here. I've sent my refund request in as well, though I didn't feel it necessary to ask for an additional $5.00 out of it. $2.50 may not be a whole lot, but it's the principle of it.

[Robbert]

I added the $5.00 out of spite. I've sent no fewer than four emails to the company, and have gotten nary a single response. I don't think that, given the fact I have paid for a service, it is unreasonable to expect at least a hither-you-go response, saying anything from "This is your autobot...." to "We're a little busy right now trying to fix the damn mailing of Issue #4, will respond within 7 years to your email..."

I paid for something. I am entitled to either the product or the money. At this point, at -least- three months after it was due (August, which was LATE), I am no longer satisfied with just the product. I want either the product, AND my $2.50 returned, or I want the $2.50 price intrinsic to the goods which have failed to be delivered, plus recompense of $5.00.

I also want my free issue for being published in the magazine. This part is non negotiable, independent of whether I get the above satisfaction or not.

--Robespierre, who has sent mails to people from the middle of the desert, in the shade of a camel, so will accept no excuse

[Ike]

I never recieved my free issue of "The Mud Companion" for purchasing Zmud!

Zugg told me that is is their responsibility to send it to me, and I have not recieved it. (It has been 8 months now)

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Ike @ Nov. 03 2002,11:33 pm) I never recieved my free issue of "The Mud Companion" for purchasing Zmud! Zugg told me that is is their responsibility to send it to me, and I have not recieved it. (It has been 8 months now)

If Zugg sold you Zmud under the explicit assumption that you'd be receiving an issue of The Mud Companion in exchange for purchasing Zmud, then it is his responsibility to provide it to you. He made money off his promise to you.

--matt

[Ike]

I HAVE CONTACTED BOTH PARTIES AND THEY BOTH BLAME THE OTHER!


whatever. i want my free issue.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Nov. 03 2002,9:35 pm) Originally Posted by If Zugg sold you Zmud under the explicit assumption that you'd be receiving an issue of The Mud Companion in exchange for purchasing Zmud, then it is his responsibility to provide it to you. He made money off his promise to you. --matt

Yes, and if Zugg can't get his free issue for him, then it lies with Mud Companion to take the blame for that. If they can't even fulfil what amounts to a corporate request, the company is already doomed. Could be time to start filing complaints with the Canadian equivalent of the Better Business Buerau. Then file appropriate claims with Paypal to have their account frozen since they seem to be unwilling to provide refunds for undelivered issues.

[Dre]

Heya all,

I just received mud companion issue #3. I actually thought I would receive the newest mud companion with the zmud offer, but I don't mind, it's here and it was fun to read.

So Ike if you are still waiting, it might be coming soon.

[Thoric]

I am extremely sorry for all the mailing delays.

There have been some serious problems with mailing, and most of them have been monitary.

If you investigate the costs of operating a magazine, you will quickly find that to offer both printing and mailing of glossy cover magazine costs a hell of a lot more than $2.50US.

The costs behind this have to be carried by the advertisers.

If you take at look at the advertising rates (and also keep in mind that many of the current advertisers got large discounts or free ads in exchange for web-based advertising), compared to the number of actual ads printed in the magazine issues you have received, it should be quite clear that things didn't work out as planned.

The MCM incurred thousands of dollars of debt through production and mailing costs, all of which are my personal obligation.

Before I could send out the last batch of magazines, I had to pay down my account with the postal company.

Now before you start ranting about my contractal obligations to provide you with your magazine or refund your partial payment, nowhere on the website or through the signup process were you promised you would receive your issues within a particular timeframe.

All promised issues will be sent, and where back issues are unavailable to complete your promised number of issues in the case that no future issues are published, you will receive a partial refund.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Samson @ Nov. 04 2002,06:06 am) Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Nov. 03 2002,9:35 pm) Originally Posted by If Zugg sold you Zmud under the explicit assumption that you'd be receiving an issue of The Mud Companion in exchange for purchasing Zmud, then it is his responsibility to provide it to you. He made money off his promise to you. --matt Yes, and if Zugg can't get his free issue for him, then it lies with Mud Companion to take the blame for that. If they can't even fulfil what amounts to a corporate request, the company is already doomed. Could be time to start filing complaints with the Canadian equivalent of the Better Business Buerau. Then file appropriate claims with Paypal to have their account frozen since they seem to be unwilling to provide refunds for undelivered issues.

Actually no, it lies entirely with Zugg. Someone who bought Zmud with the expectation (as created by an announcement on Zugg's site) that he would receive something free must be provided with that free something, or Zugg is engaged in fraud. If I purchase a cell phone plan that includes a free cell phone, and don't get that cell phone, it isn't the cell phone manufacturer that I have any legal right to go after. I go after whoever got me to fork over cash in exchange for goods they didn't deliver.

In the end, if Zugg refuses to make good on his obligation (for whatever reason. It's not your problem if his suppliers are having problems. Remember: He sold you something that he hasn't delivered. You paid him money, not The Mud Companion.) then he's obligated to either refund your money or make some other arrangement with you. The MUD Companion didn't promise you anything. It promised Zugg something, and Zugg promised you something.

--matt

[Neranz Laverani]

This thread has been bothering me for quite some time.

Let me start by saying, these are solely my opinions. If you must attack anyone because of them, I am the person you should attack.

I have always known that The Mud Companion costs more to make that my subscription covered. I could have received free copies because I had an article in every issue. I didn't though, because I felt bad because I knew that Thoric sunk a very large amount of money into the magazine to get it started. I also very strongly suspected that he never made that money back. I never realized the full extent of his losses. To be honest, I never asked, because I didn't really want to know.

Personally, I am very happy when I get something for less than I know its worth. I am ashamed when I get it at a great expense to someone else though. I think the manner in which Thoric and the magazine has been attacked is dispicable.

Everyone seems to want things for free, but they aren't willing to help in any way. All of the mud magazines are dying because people want to read them, but don't want to contribute to them. I can count on one hand the number of unsolicated articles that I received for The Art of Building in its five years of existance. That works out to one article per year. I never received any unsoliciated articles for the Builder's Bazaar section of The Mud Journal. I bet Mish is still having the same problem. I would not be surprised if Imaginary Realities died for similar reasons.

The community seems to be full of people who are willing to criticize, but very few who are willing to do anything constructive. Usually those who are willing get torn to shread by the rest. Calling the mud community an actual community is a stretch. For the most part, it is a bunch of arguing, bickering individuals who put self gratification above the community. Those who do care are eventually driven out by the packs of wolves that now exist.

Stop bickering and blaming. Do something to help rebuild the community. Contribute.

Thank you,
Neranz Laverani, Usually mild-mannered, but irrate as of late

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Neranz Laverani @ Nov. 04 2002,1:33 pm) I have always known that The Mud Companion costs more to make that my subscription covered.

That is the case with many if not most magazines, you know. It's hardly unique to the Mud Companion. It's also the case for mainstream newspapers.

Nearly all publications have to endure being in the red for awhile until they can garner a sufficient readership to attract enough advertising to support it. The ownership of The Mud Companion's "crime" was not in any ill-intention, but simple naivete about the costs of starting a magazine. It sounds to me like he wasn't prepared for the almost guaranteed period of unprofitability.

Regardless however, he did take people's money and hasn't so far delivered on what he took the money for. Whatever his intentions were in putting out the magazine, he did take money in return for a service he hasn't so far provided. It's not really incumbent on the consumer to care what the financial difficulties of the content provider are once the consumer has paid for the content.

Still, it sounds to me like most people are only out a couple bucks, which is not a big deal by any stretch.

--matt

[Neranz Laverani]

No one is even out any money if you read Thoric's last statement.

There is still the issue that people want good magazines and websites, but don't want to help create them by contributing, then rag on the sites or magazines creators because the sites or magazines aren't timely or don't succeed. Many more people seem willing to take than to give. If everyone takes, nothing can be created. The "community" is devouring itself.

[Orion Elder]

Originally Posted by Now before you start ranting about my contractal obligations to provide you with your magazine or refund your partial payment, nowhere on the website or through the signup process were you promised you would receive your issues within a particular timeframe.

I didn't want to get involved, but this simply isn't true. The notice has now been changed, but, as many people pointed out, it was previously stated on the main page that their issues of The Mud Companion would be mailed out in August. I believe the date was August 28 (I may be wrong on that), and it had 'will be mailed this week,' with the 'will be mailed' in bold text.

I am not taking sides in this, but I think both sides have a valid point. The Mud Companion isn't cheap to make, I have no doubt. People want what they paid for, again, I have no doubt.

From what I saw, most of these people have been highly understanding, mainly just wanting to be kept informed as to what is going on. Failing that, they wanted their money back. I'm sorry, but I don't see what is so bad with that.

Also, I seem to remember seeing somewhere that MCM was a quarterly magazine. Can't remember where though. I seem to remember it was in a post from Thoric, but I can't seem to find the post. Ah well.

Added:
Found some of the sites that had it.
http://www.mudconnect.com/affiliates.html

Originally Posted by The Mud Companion - A printed quarterly magazine for MUD advocates, catering to both the people who play, and the people who administrate, build and code for MUDs. Each issue will feature a full color cover, with high quality artwork, and a wealth of valuable infomation on how to get the most out of playing MUDs, and also detailed articles on various aspects of running MUDs.

http://www.maxgaming.net/~hne/ - under the 'divisions' section, under the 'mud' section.

Originally Posted by Mud Companion Magazine First Paper MUD Magazine. Quarterly - Over 40 Pages!

http://www.onlineroleplay.com/Text-Based_MUDs/e-Zines/

Originally Posted by The MUD Companion - The Mud Companion is a quarterly magazine for MUD advocates, catering to both the people who play, and the people who administrate, build and code for MUDs. Each issue will feature a full color cover, with high quality artwork, and a wealth of valuable infomation on how to get the most out of playing MUDs, and also detailed articles on various aspects of running MUDs.

http://www.chainsmokingdryad.com/resource.htm

Originally Posted by MUD Companion Magazine - The MUD Companion is a printed magazine dedicated to articles about building, coding, administration, role-playing ... everything about MUDs. It is very well-priced, and is published quarterly.

A post by Derek Snider to the SML

Originally Posted by Brought to you by members of the SMAUG team, the MUD community and MudWorld, The Mud Companion is a quarterly magazine for MUD advocates, catering to both the people who play, and the people who administrate, build and code for MUDs.

There are tons of others at Google.

Also, Neranz, I sent you one article that I mentioned I would do, for the Builder's Bazaar thing, that you didn't solicit. I mentioned I would do it, and you had to remind me... but I offered to do it without being asked. So, it wasn't solicited.

I'm going to slink back into the shadows now.

[Orion Elder]

Also, I forgot to add this one:
The Mud Companion Website from July 21, 2001 (courtesy of the WayBack Machine)
Click the subscriptions link.

Originally Posted by We are having an introductory special of a yearly, (four issue) subscription for $10 US! ($15 CDN for Canadian orders, and $15 US for International orders)

A yearly subscription are issues that will be received in one year. While you don't have to stick to a quarterly schedule with that, you DO have to make sure they get four issues in one year.

Click the Information Link.

Originally Posted by The Mud Companion is a quarterly magazine for MUD advocates, catering to both the people who play, and the people who administrate, build and code for MUDs.

This, however, cements you into producing a quarterly magazine.

Also just to make sure, I checked this one. It was the same.

The Mud Companion Website from October 25, 2001 (courtesy of the WayBack Machine)

Anyway, I meant to go back into the shadows, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my mind. *wave*

Now that everyone knows what is going on, if it is in your heart to do so... try to give Thoric a little slack.

Take care, all.

[Neranz Laverani]

You were casually talking about doing an article for another section of TMJ, administrative or roleplaying. I kidnapped you for the Bazaar. (I even tried to get you to write a series of rants for the magazine.) You were solicitated, but I won't tell your wife.

Obviously, you are someone who is willing to contribute to the community. Your websites alone prove this. Going outside of The Mud Companion discussion. Most people are not willing to contribute. They take and criticize but offer nothing valid in return. There are a few good people left, but the community is rotten at the core. Perhaps it always has been. Perhaps I have just been slow to notice it. This thread was the straw for me.