[the_logos]

Yeah, this is going to take some time to work out in terms of what the arrangements would be. I totally understand that MUDs being run as hobbys are not likely to have owners willing to contribute a lot (or any) money. The trick here is that I really do want to show the outside gaming world that text MUDs generally can offer a lot of great things, but I don't want to do it enough to essentially pay a lot to promote other people's MUDs. Lemme work this through in my mind some more and talk to some more people.

--matt

[tehScarecrow]

Someone might have brought this up in the previous pages, but I think the term "MUD" itself needs to go.

Mud is dirt and water. Hardly exciting. You could play WoW or you could play MuD. Hmmm...

[Tezcatlipoca]

Something I haven't seen in this thread yet, which I think is something everyone either can or has thought of, is maybe a bit of statistical work. I'm not a marketing professional or even a student of one, but economics and marketing usually go hand in hand, and a lot of it is comprised of good old logic and common sense.
Statistically, we need to find out what our current audience is; who plays these games already? Then find out where they are and what the best way to contact them.
Without a real statistical study, my initial guess (from the years I've played and seeing who else is playing, granted on small "local" muds only) would be that the large majority of players are students, mostly collage age students, but with a good dose of high-school students (I think we can chauck up a large percentage of the "problem players" to being high-schoolers).
IF that non-scientific observation is true, then it's reasonable to assume that most of the players that any campaign would target, would be more students. So, it would be best to target them directly.
So, IF the students are the best people to target, then I'm not sure newspaper ads are your best means of communication. As mentioned previously by Matt I believe, online advertising *does* work, but unmentioned is you need to find the right places online. His techTV add worked as he mentioned, but I think probably because it tends to be targeted at younger inquisitive minds.
So, we need to find locations that students frequent in order to maximize our return on that target audience, which is our maxium usage group. So find the locations they frequent the most. Most students end up living/learning/playing at Universities scattered around the county. Fairly cheap flier campaigns at your local University (check the University rules before going at it though) probably can be fairly effective. Again, the majority of mudders may very well be students, so if each posts at their university of choice, we've covered a lot of ground.

There's a lot of assumptions in here, I know. That's why it calls for a fairly decent statistical investigation. I get the impression that most of the people that frequent this board, and even TMC arn't these common-student-players, but instead are more along the lines of the administrative folk, which tend to be post-student hard core gamers that play/run muds as a sideline hobby, and then the few minority that run it as their full time job. So doing a survay on the boards won't tell you much. Doing them on our individual MUDs can. Once we find out who the current target % is, we can start marketing to their peers. Once we've covered that ground, start on the next highest minority group, or start to explore (a more risky venture I think any good marketer will tell you) those that we can't difinitivly say are a good target group, but one we *think* could be. The most obvious here are "gammers" (of all ages) that might not know about MUDs. That in itself will take a larger more expensive statistical campaign to find those more... financially dangerous target groups; ones we arn't too sure of. Then probably another campaign to find out how sure we can be of them.

I applogize for the length.. I tend not to write in short  bursts, but try to explore all aspects that I can at the time.

Note: the "gammer" targeting audience might not yield as much as one might expect. Many of these people have heard/tried MUDs, but are just frankly not interested, since they either don't like to have to work off a computer, or don't like the restricted world they find themselves in (table top is *much* more flexible in terms of what can be done, and always will be until we can interface direectly with human brains. Yes, there are some things a MUD can do that table top games can't--in depth player kill for example--and that in-itself should be a marketing ploy; find the differences and exploit the benifits that can't be executed in table top games.

Note 2: I've made a lot of generalities. I know I have. These are not definitive facts or professional survays. They're "guesses" as to what the outcome might be like, and guesses that disreguard a lot of possibilities. But that's why you do survaying; to generalize the playing field *properly*.

[the_logos]

Hi. Haven't forgotten about this, incidentally. Just looking around at various marketing options. Say, could those of you who were interested email me at:

matt (-at-) ironrealms (-dot-) com?

Thanks!
--matt

[Aloysius]

I think there are three main target audiences for text-based games that are quite large:

1) Fantasy and science-fiction fans/readers/moviegoers
2) Players of traditional "offline" RPGs (AD&D etc.)
3) Existing online gamers (MUD, MMORPG or otherwise)

A large segment of (at least) the first category may be virtually untapped.  And this base is growing all the time with the massive successes that movie series like Lord of the Rings or the Matrix have brought to the general public.  Let's face it:  people who find it interesting to watch a movie or read a book on the theme would probably like to experience "being in" such a world, as it were.  Many of these people are unaware of text-based games or even RPGs in general, and that is perhaps where marketing efforts would be most successful.

I'm willing to contribute my research/design/marketing skills (such as they are) to a group effort.  I don't think this would take a whole lot of money, but perhaps a lot of time from the people willing to promote it (as with MUDs themselves).

-Aloysius
Dark Tower
http://www.farseek.com/dtmud/
telnet://68.5.136.63:4550/

[the_logos]

I've just finished speaking to a couple of marketing firms about text promotion and unfortunately, doing this as a group effort doesn't seem like it'll work, at least as regards our involvement with said marketing firm.

However, that doesn't mean we can't try to work together in more guerilla ways to promote text. The group of us that pledged to Child's Play is the first act in that direction, I think. Other opportunities will crop up I'm sure.

In any case, thanks for all the interest in this on the forum and via emails but pooling our money together to advertise text generally is probably not the way to go for now.

--matt

[Sinuhe]

Figures.

Can’t say the outcome of this surprises me, I never really could picture the_logos as someone who gives a hoot about the mudding community in general.
To those of you that could, all I can say is:

Oops! He did it again…

Another of his little publicity stunt successfully accomplished.

Some of you must have really short memories. As for me, I clearly recall that thread where he urged everybody on the list to chip in with some cash, so he could sue Medievia for breaking the Diku licence.

Of course that was just before that other thread where he urged everybody on the list to go ahead and break the Diku licence, since according to the gospel of st_logos the wording of the licence wouldn’t stand up in a lawsuit, and to #### with the intent of it.

This guy is obviously interested in one thing only: To get as much space and promotion as possible for his own games. The rest of the mud community is just means to that end to him.

[Dulan]

Sinuhe, that's all well-known to the older posters of the board.

I'd say a good chunk of the older posters just consider him a troll at this point, and handle him as such.

Just a piece of advice there, at least. Handle Achaea as a troll, and he becomes a lot easier to stomach.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Sinuhe @ Nov. 24 2004,10:24) Figures. Can’t say the outcome of this surprises me, I never really could picture the_logos as someone who gives a hoot about the mudding community in general.

*gasp* Oh my god! I'm so evil for deciding that I'm not going to essentially single-handedly fund promotion of other muds as given the amounts of money involved, that's what it would have involved.

*gasp* I'm so evil for tossing an idea around that turned out not to be workable.

I guess the contributions you and Dulan have made to the MUDs can't be argued with though. Paragons of hope for MUDs, the two of you are. I have little doubt that soon all the world will know of the beauty of text MUDs due to your ceaseless efforts to expand the appeal of text. Way to go guys!

--matt

[the_logos]

On a more serious note, the only people that have any right to complain are the people who pledged to help, like Traithe (Shadows of Isildur), Threshold, Sanvean (Armaggedon), Lanthum, and a few others. However, there is a strong correlation between being willing to engage in a cooperative effort and maintaining an adult attitude about it. I'm willing to bet none of the people who voluntereed to help are going to be flaming me for just seeing if it was feasible or not, because the people who did want to help are, to a man/woman, intelligent, reasonable, and mature.

Funny how neither of you two flamers were among those offering to help, even in non-financial ways.

--matt

[Dulan]

Making a statement of fact a troll doth make, eh Achaea?

[Hardestadt]

No. Taking any excuse to flame doth a troll make.

[Dulan]

Harde, if you really think that was flaming...

Oy vey. Now, a flame would involve actually attacking someone rather then making an offhand statement that is factually correct.

If I called you a "sorry sack of sh!t", that would be a flame. Saying that "Hey, some people think you troll!" is not.

The former is -attacking- someone, while the latter isn't. Comprende?

[Brody]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Nov. 24 2004,16:02) On a more serious note, the only people that have any right to complain are the people who pledged to help, like Traithe (Shadows of Isildur), Threshold, Sanvean (Armaggedon), Lanthum, and a few others. However, there is a strong correlation between being willing to engage in a cooperative effort and maintaining an adult attitude about it. I'm willing to bet none of the people who voluntereed to help are going to be flaming me for just seeing if it was feasible or not, because the people who did want to help are, to a man/woman, intelligent, reasonable, and mature. Funny how neither of you two flamers were among those offering to help, even in non-financial ways. --matt

It should also be noted that the_logos is the one who took the time to coordinate the partnerships between several games and game-related companies (not just his own) and the Child's Play charity.

I'm also pleased to report that I've seen a bit of traffic coming my way thanks to the time he took to involve me and set up our presence on the charity's website.

Even if we don't end up doing a full-blown marketing effort, projects like this are a huge help.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Dulan @ Nov. 24 2004,19:39) Harde, if you really think that was flaming... Oy vey. Now, a flame would involve actually attacking someone rather then making an offhand statement that is factually correct. If I called you a "sorry sack of sh!t", that would be a flame. Saying that "Hey, some people think you troll!" is not. The former is -attacking- someone, while the latter isn't. Comprende?

Everyone with more than half a brain thinks you're an idiot who has never actually done anything of worth in MUDs, preferring instead to spend what little creative energy you apparently possess flaming and trolling on various MUD-related boards.

Not a flame, apparently. Interesting. I didn't realize that simply adding "Other people think" or some equivalent on the front of a flame changes it into not a flame. Sure seems juvenile to me, but then, I clearly don't possess your level of general sophistication so maybe I'm just missing something as I wallow around in a morass of my own ignorance and stupidity.

--matt

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Brody @ Nov. 24 2004,19:44) Even if we don't end up doing a full-blown marketing effort, projects like this are a huge help.

Hopefully you'll see more too after I put out a press release about the 6 text MUD companies donating to Child's Play. I'll do it next week after people are back from Thanksgiving.

--matt

[Dulan]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Nov. 24 2004,19:45) Everyone with more than half a brain thinks you're an idiot who has never actually done anything of worth in MUDs, preferring instead to spend what little creative energy you apparently possess flaming and trolling on various MUD-related boards. Not a flame, apparently. Interesting. I didn't realize that simply adding "Other people think" or some equivalent on the front of a flame changes it into not a flame. Sure seems juvenile to me, but then, I clearly don't possess your level of general sophistication so maybe I'm just missing something as I wallow around in a morass of my own ignorance and stupidity. --matt

See, Harde?

-That's- a flame.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Dulan @ Nov. 24 2004,21:12) See, Harde? -That's- a flame.

Yes, of course. It's a flame when I do it. It's not a flame when you do it. My mistake, sorry.