[Delerak]

I'm posting this thread to find some feedback on what actual builders might look for in a MUD, and their building habits.

My initial questions would be.

1.) Type?
Do you look for a certain type of mud to build at, like roleplay enforced, PK only, etc. Why do you want this type of mud.

2.) Style?
What style do you try to adhere to when you build. Do you prefer to do only certain types of areas, like geography only. Or perhaps cities only. Do you lean towards building a vile, sinister area, full of crime, sex, and drugs, or would you rather build a bright shining city of light, the bastion of good and purity.

3.) Room length?
What room length do you like to build to? 4 lines? 5? 6? 1? What is a good room length in your opinion. And why?

4.) NPCs?
What types of NPCs do you like to build. Good? Evil? Certain types of races? Why?

5.) OLC?
Do you prefer a huge, intricate OLC system with all sorts of features or a more simple offline building program.

6.) Mud setting?
What mud setting do you look for? General medieval fantasy? Sword and sorcery? Hack n slash? Or are you more stringent and seek out muds based on books like Wheel of Time, Dragonlance, etc.

7.) MUD rules?
Do you look for a mud with lots of building rules, strict guidelines etc. Or a more laid back style where you're allowed almost free reign of an area.

8.) Color?
Do you require color on a mud to build at it?

9.) Established mud?
Do you look for a MUD that has forums, website, and a player community, with a deep rooted base to build at? Or are you more of a creator that wants to find a mud that is up and coming and help the needy.


10.) Anything else you can think of mentioning here!

Thanks.
-D

[Jazuela]

Originally Posted by Delerak 1.) Type?

RPI or at the very least, RP-enforced. Because I wouldn't play anything else; therefore I won't build for anything else.

2.) Style?

I like gorey stuff, blood and guts and congealed fat and coagulated blood and leg-bones sticking out through torn flesh.

3.) Room length?

Anywhere between 4 minimum and 15 maximum. Most people skim over anything more than 6 lines, and the people who -do- read the full paragraph will only do it once. So I try to say what needs to be said within 6-8 lines for -most- rooms, and certain "special" rooms would get extra detail.

4.) NPCs?

I'm really bad at building NPCs, but I've created a few non-mob types, such as avatars used to promote plotlines - little lost/kidnapped girls, orphan kids, oracle witches, etc. etc. Those are pretty fun to do.

5.) OLC?

I'm accustomed to the DIKU-style building system, and the MOO building system. I like them both and would probably go nuts if there was a way to combine the two into a single system.

6.) Mud setting?

General though I got a kick out of doing some building for a steampunk once and would love to see more of those.

7.) MUD rules?

I like it when *I* have free reign, but I also like being the one to make the rules when it comes to building. I've seen some pretty ridiculous guidelines in the past, and I've seen games with no guidelines at all. There needs to be someone setting limits, and the limits have to be reasonable, and have to address a *reader's* perspective.

8.) Color?

No.

9.) Established mud?

Either or.

10.) Anything else you can think of mentioning here!

Not at the moment

[shadowfyr]

5) OLC?

Seriously ugh! Now, I do agree that they get two things right. There is a) a consistent "base" system for things like combat, shops, NPC code, etc. This is a good thing, but still something someone "could have" done for the older style full-mod capable muds. Its main feature might be described as, "security through not letting you change anything in the core library". Ok, not a horrible idea, as long as you have some sane way to change that code. Recompiling the entire engine to either change how something works, or add new protocols, is ***not*** sane imho, especially if you are running something like Windows, and you don't necessarilly have direct access to the box its on. I really think we need an alternative. One with a clear, uncomplicated, non-obfuscated library, which you can access ***on a different security level and port*** than the coders for rooms, etc. In other words, make the library and things like protocols "plugins", so you can still change them via telnet, but only through **their** port and security. And make sure they operate in a way that is a) clear and concise, as well as b) in a way that can easilly be modded to do other stuff not currently supported. Let the normal coding of rooms, NPCs, etc. from this library still happen in the other security layer, where you can limit what is done, without preventing someone who wants to from suggesting alternate code for something. Heck, for that matter, if they want to change stuff in the library, to do something different, have some way to limit "those" changes so they can "only" effect the code, NPCs, rooms, etc. in "their" area, or something. But don't tie some creative persons hands with, "No, you can't do that, because while it sounds really cool, the library doesn't support it." I would hate to code on some place like that myself, but heh, to each their own.


8) In what sense, no?

Seriously, if there are reasonable rules to limit its use to where it makes sense, and you where only allowed to use it in room objects. I.e., you *have to*, "look object" to see it, I don't think its so bad. I do agree that the ones which bury it in the main room, and then only support straight ANSI as well, are ugly. I don't see anything wrong with someone a) supporting MXP style colors, so that when someone is *specifically* describing a flower or the like, they can give a visual of the color (or for a puzzle that relies on it and uses more than red, green and blue, or something), but I just wants to slap the idiot that uses ANSI red to hilight their "violet" flowers with a magenta fish (being as they couldn't even pick a color *close* to the one they intended, never mine the exact color, and this happened ***on*** a mud that supported MXP...), b) having a sign that is a particular color, because its that color. If the goblin's inn, which sells bog swill tea, has a sign that is putred green (because they, yuck, actually like that color) it would be funny to actually have the sign object in the room, or at least its title, i.e., "A sign that reads, "Muglop's Innn'", actually *be* a sickly green color.

Point is, its not color that is the problem, its that people are stupid about how to use it properly, and they figure that if they can use it, they should use it often and in the most idiot ways possible. Though, the ones that take the cake are the RL cases where some religious wacko uses Comic Sans, random bold text and 15 different colors to babble some incoherent rant against your support of toothpaste, or some similarly insane nonsense. Don't believe me? Then you probably haven't recieved one. And they **always** seem to be in Comic Sans, even on their websites. lol If I ever wanted to write a supposed text, holding some tiny clue to some puzzle, in the middle of the incoherent babble from a fanatic who once lived in a cave and raised bats, on the theory that his god wanted them to destroy the world for its use of toe nail clippers, I know precisely the color scheme, font and layout needed to make it believable on a mud. Sadly, most of them would never allow me to do it justice. lol

But seriously, as I said. Color isn't bad, bad use of color is. Why the only reaction anyone that recognizes bad use of color ever has is to run away and avoid it...

[Delerak]

I totally agreed with your whole post shadow. Wtf, are you my twin.

[crate]

First off, great thread. I like this immensely.

Originally Posted by Delerak 1.) Type? Do you look for a certain type of mud to build at, like roleplay enforced, PK only, etc. Why do you want this type of mud.

Definitely roleplay encouraged, if not greater. IC in public rooms at the least.. PK is alright, but I don't like open PK games. I would want to build in a MUD that I could play in, and so I would want something with roleplaying that wasn't just hack and slash. Unfortunately, these are vague and I'm rather picky. So something in the style of Iron Realms' smaller games that have more RP would be nice.

2.) Style? What style do you try to adhere to when you build. Do you prefer to do only certain types of areas, like geography only. Or perhaps cities only. Do you lean towards building a vile, sinister area, full of crime, sex, and drugs, or would you rather build a bright shining city of light, the bastion of good and purity.

I like a variety of styles to keep me interested. Building the same thing over and over again is obnoxious.

3.) Room length? What room length do you like to build to? 4 lines? 5? 6? 1? What is a good room length in your opinion. And why?

4-6 lines. Maybe less on areas like a swamp or a path. I don't like room descriptions to repeat, but variety becomes more difficult if you have to write 6 lines for each desert room.

4.) NPCs? What types of NPCs do you like to build. Good? Evil? Certain types of races? Why?

Personally, I like good or evil, humanoid races. They're easier for me to describe.

5.) OLC? Do you prefer a huge, intricate OLC system with all sorts of features or a more simple offline building program.

I've had limited experience with OLC, and I like building online, but at the same time, too many features causes people to want to utilize every single one of them whether a place needs it or not.

6.) Mud setting? What mud setting do you look for? General medieval fantasy? Sword and sorcery? Hack n slash? Or are you more stringent and seek out muds based on books like Wheel of Time, Dragonlance, etc.

Original setting. No stock rooms. Not based on books or movies. The only exception might be Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials series. That I could work with because I know the subject matter. But even then, original is best!

7.) MUD rules? Do you look for a mud with lots of building rules, strict guidelines etc. Or a more laid back style where you're allowed almost free reign of an area.

There should definitely be set guidelines and a standard of quality that is maintained. Some rules I love are:

1. The room description should NOT tell you how you are feeling when in the room. (i.e., You scream in horror as you look at the mural on the wall.)
2. Actions shouldn't occur in the room description. (i.e., A bat flies overhead, swooping down at a mouse. Really? Does this happen EVERY TIME you enter the room?)
3. Hell, just leave "you" out of room descriptions altogether.

8.) Color? Do you require color on a mud to build at it?

I like color, but only if it is used sparingly. Room exits. Seperate chat channels. Iron Realms utilizes color well.

9.) Established mud? Do you look for a MUD that has forums, website, and a player community, with a deep rooted base to build at? Or are you more of a creator that wants to find a mud that is up and coming and help the needy.

Ideally, I'd love to start with a MUD from the ground up. However, I don't want to waste my time on a game that will never get off the ground. I was about to apply as a builder for Ilyrias when that game fell through. (I am still terribly sad about that.) So to start from a new MUD, I'd love the opportunity to start on a new IRE game, or something similar, where the player base would be guaranteed. Logging into a MUD that will have less than ten players on at any given time would make me sad.

Working with an established MUD can be fun, but seriously, I would absolutely love a new MUD that had real promise.

10.) Anything else you can think of mentioning here!

Stock rooms make me sad. Areas with purpose are the best. I would never just write for a MUD that didn't have an overall theme and quality standards. The admin should have a vision for what he or she wants to see.

[Delerak]

Yeah I pretty much agree with you Crate. I've found it very hard to keep a presence of builders and or coders when I'm not around at my mud. It can be frusterating as the admin as well as flattering. In the sense that if you're gone everything crumbles, which sucks.

[Molly]

Originally Posted by Delerak I'm posting this thread to find some feedback on what actual builders might look for in a MUD, and their building habits.

1.) Type?

I obviously prefer a Mud type where zones and descriptions are important, as well as depth in the zones, since that is where Builder skills are required. This probably rules out pure PK and pure hack'n'slash. Roleplay Muds usually look for depth and quality, but my favourite Mud would be focused on exploring and questing, like the one that one I build for presently. Designing quests is one of the more fun tasks you can do as a Builder.

2.) Style?

I like change, so I do all kinds of zones, anything else would soon bore me to death. I prefer working on pretty dense surroundings with lots of extra descs and secrets embedded in the rooms, but the building style obviously needs to adapt to the type of area you work on. For instance the room descs in travel areas would be much shorter than the ones inside a house or a castle, where you would put a lot of depth and extra descs. I am not saying that extra descs would not bee good in a forest or grassland too, only that somewhere you have to make a choice between quality and quantity. If every room in the Mud would have lots of extra descs, you'd probably end up with a very small world.

3.) Room length?

I think 4-8 lines are ideal, too short looks puny, too long gets spammy and just makes players turn on brief mode. It's better to put everything above 8 lines into extra descs. (Although I must confess I sometimes break my own rules here. I often get carried away while writing, and my descs become too long). Pure travel areas can have shorter descs, but not less than 2 lines.

4.) NPCs?

Race, alignment and such details don't matter to me. What does matter is if I can make the mob interesting in some way, give it some sort of background history, or make it an integrated part of a quest or the overall plot of the zone.

5.) OLC?

One thing that is essential to me is that the Mud has DG_scripts, or the equivalent, and that the scripting code is kept updated. Scripts is what makes a zone come to life.
Generally I'd say the more tools us builders can get, the better. We don't HAVE to use them all, but they should be available when we do.
And I want access to ALL the tools. I hate the system some muds have, where you first only get access to room edit, then possibly to mobs, and finally objects and scripts. Some muds even only let a small set of trusted builders work with the mobs and objects, while the main part are supposed to just fork out room descs. To me that is slave labour, and I'd never build in a place like that. All parts of a zone need to work together, rooms, mobs, objects and scripts, and you have to work with them as a whole to get good results.
Whether you like to work in OLC, with an off-line building program or directly in the files, like I do myself is a matter of personal preference, but it's nice if the Mud can offer alternatives.

6.) Mud setting?

Personally I wouldn't like building for a Mud that is based on a book or a series of books, it would put way too much restraint on my creativity. I am also growing increasingly tired of medieval fantasy, even though that was my first preference when I started building many years ago. I like to have SOME sort of consistent theme though, since having a sort of platform to start out from makes building easier. Nowadays I love to indulge in Ancient Greece and Egypt - the combination of historical facts and myths give enough foundation for my fantasy to spin off.

7.) MUD rules?

I think the Mud must have some building rules, as long as they are sensible ones. Consistency is important; ideally the player should not even notice when they pass from one zone to another. If every Builder gets to follow their own taste, you'll end up with a total patchwork. You also need to have rules about the balancing of mobs and objects, or you'll end up with a steadily escalating set of addaffects and other stats on objects, since that is the easiest way for Builders to attract players to their zone. And finally there needs to be rules about the use of colour, unless you want the Mud to end up looking like a badly decorated christmas tree. (see below)

8.) Color?

Personally I like colour in a mud, when used tastefully, consequently and not to the excess. I think colours in general should not be left to the builders to choose however, with the exception of small highlights here and there. The colour scheme should be part of the Mud design and built into the code. Rightly used colours help with the readability, and consequently with the playability of the Mud. For instance different colour on room names, room descs, exits, mobs and objects all make it easier to get a quick grasp of the room you enter, and different colours on channel makes it easier to single out important messages from the rest. Above that, colour should be used sparsely.

9.) Established mud?

I can see how it would be more fun to build for a new and upcoming mud, where you have a real chance to put your mark on the game. However, for me stability and consistency is everything. I would absolutely hate to put months of my work into a mud, only to see it fold before it even opened. So if I ever went on the lookout for a new Mud to build on - (which seems unlikely) - I'd probably go for an established Mud, unless the new Mud was run by people I knew well enough to trust that they'd carry out their project.

10.) Anything else you can think of mentioning here!

Most important of all to me is an environment where Builders' rights and skills are acknowledged and respected.
Also it is important that the coders in the mud really listen to the builders and provide them with all the tools they need to do a good job.

[Vanth]

Originally Posted by Delerak I'm posting this thread to find some feedback on what actual builders might look for in a MUD, and their building habits. My initial questions would be. 1.) Type? Do you look for a certain type of mud to build at, like roleplay enforced, PK only, etc. Why do you want this type of mud.

I'd only build at a MUD I'd want to play (or preferably, currently play). I prefer RPIs. As a builder, that preference is still there because I want people to actually read my descriptions and interact with my writing, rather than my writing just being background noise while they interact with the code.

2.) Style? What style do you try to adhere to when you build. Do you prefer to do only certain types of areas, like geography only. Or perhaps cities only. Do you lean towards building a vile, sinister area, full of crime, sex, and drugs, or would you rather build a bright shining city of light, the bastion of good and purity.

I prefer areas that are neither black nor white, but gray. I do prefer writing city areas to wilderness ones, in great part because cities have lots of people, and (to me) it's more interesting to write about people than animals.

3.) Room length? What room length do you like to build to? 4 lines? 5? 6? 1? What is a good room length in your opinion. And why?

4 lines minimum, 8-9 max. Anything less than 4 and I don't think enough is said about the area. If you can engage at least 3 of the 5 senses in less than 4 lines, my hat's off to you. But too long a description and my own eyes glaze over, nevermind the players'.

4.) NPCs? What types of NPCs do you like to build. Good? Evil? Certain types of races? Why?

As stated above, I prefer humanoids or those who have human characteristics. And again with the gray rather than black or white. Every otherwise nice character should have a flaw, every otherwise odious character should have a redeeming or endearing quality.

5.) OLC? Do you prefer a huge, intricate OLC system with all sorts of features or a more simple offline building program.

How the system is handled is less important to me than the following 3 qualities: 1) Intuitiveness of use--commands or procedures should be consistent and easily understandable. 2) Ease of quick building--if I'm on a roll, I don't want to have a lot of extraneous typing or need to create a macro to make my life easier. 3) Idiot proof--I don't want to have to worry that rolling back a mistake will be a laborious process.

6.) Mud setting? What mud setting do you look for? General medieval fantasy? Sword and sorcery? Hack n slash? Or are you more stringent and seek out muds based on books like Wheel of Time, Dragonlance, etc.

I don't like high fantasy. I like a setting with some 'grit' to it. I guess my taste is the same as my taste in TV shows: gritty realistic drama like Deadwood, BSG, or Rome.

7.) MUD rules? Do you look for a mud with lots of building rules, strict guidelines etc. Or a more laid back style where you're allowed almost free reign of an area.

There has to be an overarching vision and a system of oversight that makes sure individual builders are all working toward that vision. But I don't need to be micro-managed. It helps a lot if I can come up with my concept, spell it out to whoever's providing oversight, then be left to my own devices to implement it once I'm given the go-ahead.

8.) Color? Do you require color on a mud to build at it?

The less color, the better. But that's also my preference as a player.

9.) Established mud? Do you look for a MUD that has forums, website, and a player community, with a deep rooted base to build at? Or are you more of a creator that wants to find a mud that is up and coming and help the needy.

I'm currently building for an established MUD, which has certain benefits:
The style of the MUD is already well-established, so I'm reasonably certain that what I build will fit in.
I know and trust that what others build will also be of good quality.
I know the rest of the staff and am sure that interpersonal drama will be minimal.

I don't know if I could build at an up-and-coming MUD unless I was sure that the head admin(s) could ensure those kinds of things. Most can't get that kind of positive momentum early on. If I did build at a starter MUD I'd want a lot of creative control/license. As someone else mentioned in this thread, I don't want to be just a writing slave.

10.) Anything else you can think of mentioning here! Thanks. -D

As I touched on in #9, interpersonal relations are a big deal. If you want people to stick around they need to feel like they're part of a team, not an isolated cog in some impersonal machine. Oh, and there's little a builder hates more than being made to feel like they're a second-class citizen and not as important as coders.

[Muirdach]

Originally Posted by Delerak 1.) Type? Do you look for a certain type of mud to build at, like roleplay enforced, PK only, etc. Why do you want this type of mud.

I generally like roleplay encouraged at least, and little-to-no PK because those are the kinds of games I would play. Especially the PK one. These are the first basic things I'd want to know before playing any game.

Originally Posted by Delerak 2.) Style? What style do you try to adhere to when you build. Do you prefer to do only certain types of areas, like geography only. Or perhaps cities only. Do you lean towards building a vile, sinister area, full of crime, sex, and drugs, or would you rather build a bright shining city of light, the bastion of good and purity.

I really just build what needs to be built or what I think would be appreciated. I am not an artistic person, I do a job because I get my satisfaction from helping. I honestly have no idea what I personally lean towards. If building wasn't needed, I wouldn't do it - I don't gain any pleasure from the act itself.

Originally Posted by Delerak 3.) Room length? What room length do you like to build to? 4 lines? 5? 6? 1? What is a good room length in your opinion. And why?

I hate writing descriptions. Rooms, mobiles, objects, whatever. I try to do 4 lines. More than 6 is like squeezing blood from a stone. I would much rather bring my areas to life through quests, neat programs, something unusual and fun to do, rather than beautiful writing. I do put a lot of time and effort into all my areas, I just prefer action rather than reading.

Originally Posted by Delerak 4.) NPCs? What types of NPCs do you like to build. Good? Evil? Certain types of races? Why?

Generally not very creative ones. Did I mention I'm not a writer? I'd much rather build a fairly standard wizard with a marvellous quest or some special feature, than describe some weird fantastical creature from the depths of my imagination. I'm an accountant, give me a break man!

Originally Posted by Delerak 5.) OLC? Do you prefer a huge, intricate OLC system with all sorts of features or a more simple offline building program.

Both! I like having an offline program that I can work on totally away from the game. I would get a lot more work done that way and would get less distracted. Sometimes though, you really need to be in there to get inspiration or to tweak something as play is going on. I like that flexibility that OLC brings.

Originally Posted by Delerak 6.) Mud setting? What mud setting do you look for? General medieval fantasy? Sword and sorcery? Hack n slash? Or are you more stringent and seek out muds based on books like Wheel of Time, Dragonlance, etc.

General. I don't mind whether it's fantasy or historical or whatever, but no books or TV series please, because I don't read or watch series. I honestly have read like 2 fantasy books ever in my life, and none as part of a series. I don't want to be on a mud swarmed by fanboys.

Originally Posted by Delerak 7.) MUD rules? Do you look for a mud with lots of building rules, strict guidelines etc. Or a more laid back style where you're allowed almost free reign of an area.

A mixture of both. I want some flexibility, but I need there to be some rules as assurance that someone cares and is watching. I wouldn't build for one of those "build whatever, whenever you feel like it" muds. I need some kind of professional feel to be present. I would be fine working on a game with deadlines.

Originally Posted by Delerak 8.) Color? Do you require color on a mud to build at it?

Gyah, no. Some colour is nice, but almost everyone overdoes it. Plus, everyone has a different taste in colour, both builders and players. I don't mind if people build with it, but I hardly ever do, I prefer quiet neutrality.

Originally Posted by Delerak 9.) Established mud? Do you look for a MUD that has forums, website, and a player community, with a deep rooted base to build at? Or are you more of a creator that wants to find a mud that is up and coming and help the needy.

Really torn here. Honestly for me, the community makes the mud. I'd most like to build for one that's up and coming and needs help - as long as it's really up and coming, not just another admin who's excited and then loses their enthusiasm once they don't get 100 players online during the first month.

Originally Posted by Delerak 10.) Anything else you can think of mentioning here!

I think it's important to remember that not every builder is an artist. Some people, like me, are just doing a job and trying to make a difference. I don't particularly enjoy building as a technical or artistic activity, and that's a very different target from a real area writer.

[Delerak]

Thanks for all the replies people.

[Milawe]

Originally Posted by Delerak 1.) Type? Do you look for a certain type of mud to build at, like roleplay enforced, PK only, etc. Why do you want this type of mud.

I don't have a real preference in TYPE of mud since muds will call themselves all sorts of stuff whether or not they really fit that genre. What I do prefer is a consistent world story and a consistent writing style. Also, I prefer a limited number of builders with one builder in charge of determining the style of writing, the rules for writing, and double checks most entries before writing is accepted and implemented for the world. The reason I require this is because I believe in a seamless world rather than a world where you can point out, "This area has bad writing" or "Build B built areas A, C, and F while Builder X definitely built areas E, G, and K." I require a consistent world story because I believe that the world really shouldn't be as believable as possible rather than chopped up in distinct areas.

Originally Posted by Delerak 2.) Style? What style do you try to adhere to when you build. Do you prefer to do only certain types of areas, like geography only. Or perhaps cities only. Do you lean towards building a vile, sinister area, full of crime, sex, and drugs, or would you rather build a bright shining city of light, the bastion of good and purity.

I'll build it all. I honestly have no preference. Sometimes I like to do something that's very nature-ish, and other times I want to build a polluting, nasty, encroaching city. I keep multiple building projects open at once in order to take advantage of whatever mood I'm in. This sometimes causes delays in some areas, though, so it's not always the best way to work, especially if you have deadlines.

Originally Posted by Delerak 3.) Room length? What room length do you like to build to? 4 lines? 5? 6? 1? What is a good room length in your opinion. And why?

The total room description (including exits) is never any more than 23 lines for me.

Originally Posted by Delerak 4.) NPCs? What types of NPCs do you like to build. Good? Evil? Certain types of races? Why?

I prefer to build exotic, non-sentient NPCs, usually magical or mutated in construct. I usually base them off creatures that really exist and then decide how they got from their original form to their current form. I'm a biology major with an emphasis in ecology and genetics. This is a chance to actually use that degree.

Originally Posted by Delerak