[Mabus]

Originally Posted by (Andris @ May 07 2006) If stuck on windows though, either dgd or mudsouls are pretty nice. Think you can also use some old ROM mud as well, but I only really know the lpc syntax well so haven't bothered with other cbases.

Bo Zimmerman's CoffeeMud is Java-based and usable on Windows/*nux or any system with Java installed.

[Lark]

All right, on some earlier advice in this thread, I checked out the Dead Souls mudlib, an LP codebase that uses MudOS as its driver.

The only other codebase I've worked with is Lima, so you'll have to bear with what isn't exactly a codebase authority's review.

I liked it very much, it was easy to grasp from starting and you can see it's been designed that way. Nonetheless, it seems fairly flexible, and it's my understanding that LP code is also very pliable in itself (for good or for worse), so it seems that it's very powerful for something so easy to start with.

The Quick Creation System is a godsend for administrators with severely left-brained staff; it eases and quickens the creation of items, NPCs, and rooms so that a number of rooms and objects can be laid down quickly without working the code out by hand in a third-party editor. If it's your thing to do it by hand that's always an option.

Cratylus has labored on this library clearly out of love, and it's been said that people have complained because it's updated too often, rather than too little.

All in all the system seems very forgiving to the virgin admin, and as I've learned through the I3 network connecting Dead Souls muds to another, it's versatile for the old pro as well.

It comes in both Windows and Unix, the former very convenient for, again, the inexperienced would-be admin (can you tell I'm talking from experience?) I definitely recommend it for people who'd like to learn LPC and make a mud at their own pace without signing on to a team with its own deadlines and agenda.

I've never had any crashes or bugs in the few weeks I've worked with it, and Cratylus is striving for his next release as we speak.

Here's the link again:

http://dead-souls.sourceforge.net/index.html

I'm as good as home with Dead Souls, and I'm sure it'll only get better as time goes on.

[zombiedepot]

Originally Posted by (Mabus @ May 08 2006,07:44) Bo Zimmerman's CoffeeMud is Java-based and usable on Windows/*nux or any system with Java installed.

I second CoffeeMUD.

It's good for many reasons: It's stable, it runs on Windows, has a web-based room/area editor right in it, and has a lot of features I've never seen elsewhere. Like a complete mundane crafting system for one (don't see that too often), and the important systematic stuff like PK, death, etc is configurable through an .ini file. Its got a growing community full of helpful people.

The only cons I can think of is that not all MUD hosts allow it, mostly because of the fact it is java and uses a lot of memory. I've never personally noticed any problems really, but I host my own.

[Alexander Tau]

Nice Thread.

I have seen requests for a 'simple comparision of codebases' since I got in involved in Mudding so many years ago. The problem is that unlike most software there is so much that goes into making a codebase workable that any really useful 'list' ends up being rather large.

A useful addition to your format might be something along the lines of: % Complete Mud bult-in.

For Dead Souls it would be 100%, for ColdC and ColdCore at least it would be more like 10%.

This is a huge factor and deserves special attention.

Since I just spent a fair amount of time with ColdC I would like to add some comments about the documentation. I understand what the poster meant about 'spotty' but I had a different reaction. Most everything is documented. just not in english exactly. What you have is a very technical description of the functions and commands and an almost complete lack of examples. (I should mention that I first learned to program in oh 1973 or so, I am no stranger to technical descriptions but jeeze did'nt one of the Authors have a girlfriend of someone who could have written a little english for them?)


After a whole lot of dedicated web searches by two people we were only able to come up with a half-dozen pages with any useful information, and only a couple of those were really helpful. So few people use ColdC there there just is not the sort of support system that is so important when working with a huge piece of software like a codebase.

Dead Souls has my attention now, not for the commercial project I wanted to do, but for a project that will set the stage, and gather the people necessary for the next game.


A.T
(-)

[KevinT]

I have a question. Why not just write your own engine? I am not asking this out of arrogance, just wondered why rely on someone else?

Also, why is a graphical front end usually not considered a MUD, even tho it is multi-user and a dungeon?

Thanks

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by (KevinT @ May 30 2006,01:32) Why not just write your own engine?

While I'm all in favour of writing muds from scratch, there's no "just" about it - it's a lot of extra work, and for many people it's simply not worth reinventing the wheel.

Originally Posted by Also, why is a graphical front end usually not considered a MUD, even tho it is multi-user and a dungeon?

It generally is, although it depends who you ask. And it doesn't have to be a "dungeon" - that's just a reference to a single player game (called Dungeon).

[tehScarecrow]

Has anyone mentioned www.mudmaker.com yet? I am really looking forward to running a MUD off of this service. It appears to be at just above the core ROM/Smaug level, nowhere near as flexibile as LPC but probably takes 1/10th as much time as LPC does. Considering how you don't need to know any programming at all to make MUDs with it, it probably has the potential to blow up.

I was writing my own engine at one point, and that was good times, but time constraints and being able to get support (almost impossible if you're making your own thing after all) are unfortunate realities.

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by (tehScarecrow @ May 30 2006,15:06) Has anyone mentioned www.mudmaker.com yet? I am really looking forward to running a MUD off of this service. It appears to be at just above the core ROM/Smaug level, nowhere near as flexibile as LPC but probably takes 1/10th as much time as LPC does.

I was under the impression you couldn't change the code at all - in fact, I'm fairly certain you can't even get hold of the binaries, meaning you're totally reliant on their services for the continuation of your mud. If they shut down, your mud is dead. If they raise their prices, you have to pay more, or your mud is dead. If you have a disagreement with them and they ban you, your mud is dead. And so on.

There's also the issue of changes to the mud. If you're running a Smaug, ROM, LPmud, etc, and you want to implement a specific feature, you can do so (or get someone else to do it for you). But with mudmaker, the changes are outside of your control - the best you can do is try to convince them to add what you want.

[tehScarecrow]

Those are indeed some serious potential problems, but it'd still be so much faster and easier than using LPC. Now that you mention it though I probably will start saving everything I make in word pad in case they go under in the interests of saving time.

The flexibility can be a problem, but sometimes less is more if you know what I mean. They do their best to leave things open ended and I like what they've got going so far.

[HJFudge]

I'd just to quip in on Mudmaker real fast. Ive been using it for a bit, and the staff there is extremely helpful, kind and willing to sit down and go through the veeery basics with people. While it is true, they dont have many features as of yet, they are planning on implementing a ton of customizability and options. They recently released a quest system because most people requested it, and its very admin-customizable...well, at least when it comes to non-coders.

You retain all rights to whatever you create with mudmaker, so if you want to take your stuff and use another service, you can take all the design concepts (areas, items, etc) and go code it yourself or find a coder that would like to help.

While right now its not very flexible, if yer creative you can do more with it then you would think. As they implement new features and support, I am confident it'll be a quality project that will allow creative, innovative and dedicated non-coders to make a product that is both unique and fun. Everything theyve implemented so far has been very high quality...every time Ive had a bug or problem it has been dealt with in a timely fashion, and if they continue doing so I have NO problem with shelling out x amount of dollars a month for them to host my MUD. The best part? You dont have to pay a cent until YOU feel your MUD is ready. Oh and plus the community right now consits of maybe 10 people who regularly post on the forums, so getting what you want implemented isnt real hard.

Just chiming in Dead Souls is another option Im seriously considering, but Coding just isnt coming easy to me I fear. Either way, I'll have the design elements 90% done since Im using MudMaker.

[tehScarecrow]

I downloaded Deadsoul's recently too. I learned LPC on the Merentha mudlib which had its ups and downs... the way things are done within the code is different from most other LPC mudlibs, and it is very bare bones, but the fact that it was so simple made it easy to dissect  

[Shane]

Yep, MudMaker was mentioned.  The next post will be the list again, with a little addition to ColdC's info, giving you the place to go to actually get human beings to talk to about it.  Sorry to be out of pocket so long.  Work, you know...

Feel free, anyone interested, to update this. Just try to keep a consistent format, but by all means cut and paste the whole list and edit it.

[Shane]

Name: AMC
Function: MUDCore based attempt at refreshing space MUDs. Aimed and providing a highly realistic, detailed yet balanced gameplay. A Team project open to the entire MUDing community's input.
Pros: Professional Games Design, Realistic Space Engine, Advanced AI and logical scripting, Inherits and maintains MUDcore's ease of extension and good Software Engineering.
Cons: Still in developmnet, May not be used commercially without Gary's written consent, Windows only. Editors Note: Seems to be a problem with GPL and the original author's intent to keep it not for profit.
License: GPL
Website: www.sw-erp.org [Click the AMC link]
Comments: I can't evaluate my own work, but i will provide you with some of the goals of the project:
+ Highly dynamic and maintainable MUD codebase
+ Represent a True3D Spatial Environment
+ Provide advanced AI handling
+ Implement a rich, detailed and balanced Player System
+ Utilising an advanced combat system
+ Highly dynamic and maintainable MUD codebase
The website provides more details, its basically using MUDCore to produce a Space based engine.

Name: ColdC
Pros: Makes no assumptions about the type of game you want to make (it doesn't even assume you necessarily want to make a game). No restrictive licensing. Lends itself well to the creation of persistent virtual worlds. Disk-based memory. Objects can be reprogrammed on the fly without having to reboot and without having to destroy and reload the objects.
Cons: Spotty documentation. Be prepared to do a lot of low-level work with the core (lib) before you have anything resembling a game to work with.
License: GPL

ColdC most closely resembles the MOO programming language, but is probably just as accessible to anyone familiar with LPC. There are a couple of minimal cores available for anyone wanting to essentially build a core from scratch.
The driver handles incoming and outgoing network connections, but leaves just about everything else to the code in the core. This leaves a mud developer with a lot more work than would be required with most of the more popular LP libs, but nowhere near the level of work that would be required to develop a mud from scratch in C/C++.

Here's a handy place to find humans to talk to about it.
http://www.coldc.com/epoch/

Name: Dead Souls
Function:
Pros: Ease of installation, cross platformer.
Cons: *shrugs*
License:
Comments: Take a look at the intall FAQ: http://dead-souls.sourceforge.net/ds-inst-faq.html

Name: Inferno
Function: Handles all networking issues and offers a powerful object-oriented interpreter layered on top of the server. Install, log in and start coding.
Pros: Ridiculously stable. The language is simple, sort of a cross between Python and JAVA, and was built for the sole purpose of creating virtual text worlds. Contains a huge, rich set of predefined script functions for handling object location, dynamic string substitution, and just about everything else. Object specification is built in.
Cons: Largely undocumented. Runs in RAM.
License:
Comments: The Inferno platform is a highly modified version of Lamda MOO. Shadowfall.

Name: LpMud
Function: Server software for telnet with included interpreted language based on C.
Pros: Free to use, widespread support.
Cons: Older codebase, may not be used commercially.
License:
Comments: Here I would attempt to break down anything and everything anyone had to say about their experience with the software being discussed, including perhaps for LpMud the difference between the driver and the mudlib, for example.

Name: MUDCore
Function: Scratch built C++ MUD engine by Tarmon's Gary McNickle. Provides socket handling, account system, player system and basic area structure. Aimed at providing a starting point for new MUD developers.
Pros: Extremely well written, documented and commented, Easy to extend and work with.
Cons: May not be used commercially without permission of the author, Not actively supported (trying to change this), Windows environment (needs porting). Editor's Note: seems to be a conflict between the GPL and the author's intent to keep it non-profit.
License: GPL
Website: www.mudcore.com (down)
Comments: MUDCore is IMHO one of the best starting points for MUD development available. I have yet to see another codebase that provides such a great example of good Software Engineering practices (Commenting, Structure, Documentation, Programming Standards). The codebase is highly dynamic which makes it easy to carry out additions such as adding races, skills, etc. The Codebase was withdrawn from the world due to a lack of Interest, however, I am trying to speak to Gary about getting it re-released and supported.

Name: Rapture
Function: Handles all networking things required to run a mud, allowing you to concentrate on the actual world development.
Pros: IRE gives really good support, thanks a lot for that Matt and Chris. Relatively simple(yet powerful) language that is designed specifically for muds. Stable. Can be used for commercial games.
Cons: Expensive.
License:
Comments: We use this for Ilyrias and it has sped up development quite a bit.