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citywisdom 05-01-2011 03:04 AM

Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
Hey, guys. I'm looking to get back into mudding/mushing/acronyming and I'm getting kind of overwhelmed digging through the ginormous list of games. I've read through the threads on finding a MUD, and I've gone through the search engine every way I can think, but some of this stuff is pretty hard to pin down unless I spend a week figuring out a game's theme and mechanics, go through character creation, get approved, wander around the game environment for a while, and then figure out the hard way that it isn't what I wanted.

Here's what I'm looking for, and I would be grateful for any advice.


1.) Mandatory roleplay.

Fantasy MUD, sci-fi RPI, whatever - I'm looking for a game where the focus is on engaging RP.


2.) No/avoidable PK.

I'm fine with the risk of permadeath if I RP a poorly planned coup against the queen or whatever, or if there's a PK aspect to the game which I can completely opt out of, but PK is just genuinely not my thing.


3.) Allows for a flexible schedule.

I'm a full-time student, so I won't always have time to play. Games where my character will die/lose all their equipment/be exiled/whatever if I don't log in every day are probably not a good idea for me.


4.) Friendly to queer/female players.

If the in-game world is full of harsh injustice, no worries, but I've learned that I get pretty miserable playing a game where the admins allow their female/gay/whatever players to get harassed on OOC channels/forums.


5.) No pay-for-play.

Sorry, I'm broke.


I'm not super concerned how large the playerbase is so long as there are enough people around that I won't be logging into an empty landscape, and I'm flexible in terms of genre and codebase. Mostly I'm looking for a game with a friendly admin staff and playerbase and interesting avenues for RP.

I'd appreciate whatever recommendations you can make!

silvarilon 05-01-2011 07:56 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I usually avoid recommending my own mud. Since it's a bit of a fringe case. But it might be worth checking out for you.

(I'm happier to recommend it now that I've handed over the lead position. So I guess I'm recommending someone else's mud) :)

It might be worth checking out Ironclaw Online -
Please forgive the dated looking introductory webpages.

It IS pay-to-play, but you get a free month trial play. Plans are also underfoot (and hopefully will be completed before a month is past) to make it free to play indefinitely.

It also is an anthropomorphic game. The characters are all walking, talking, clothes-wearing animals. That said, the playerbase isn't made up of "furries" - they welcome a few amongst them, but the vast majority wouldn't consider themselves to be "furries".

It's also a very different game engine, you won't necessarily be able to use the same commands you are used to from other games. That's both good and bad, bad because you have to learn the system, good because the game mechanics are built up specifically to support the game, rather than put in place because "that's how it's done" - which means every command has had thought put into it.

Heh. So I've just made a huge explanation of excuses and hedging. See why I don't usually recommend it? I suck at this whole promotion thing :)
On to your specific points!

The focus is very much on RP and "telling stories"
The game has political factions, including rival noble houses, the church, and the city law enforcement. Players can also create their own factions. When I say "factions" or "guilds" I mean roleplayed organizations, not an NPC that sets a flag on your character that gives specific skills.

Then there are plotter staff specifically there to support player stories about these factions. For example, one of the player-leaders of a noble house has decided to bring military forces into the city - which is basically an act of war. The staff are getting their ducks in a row to support that and run it as a game-changing storyline. Instigated by a player. I think that's awesome, he's roleplaying, and it changes the outcome of the game.
Staff genuinely don't know what's going to happen - he may decide to back off from bringing military into the city, other nobles might bring their own military in to oppose him, they might all talk it over while having coffee. It'll be up to their roleplay to see what happens.

That's pretty spot-on for how we handle it. We have player-vs-player combat, and that can lead to death - but the church has magic to bring people back from the dead.
There are cases that result in permanent death (if you are excommunicated from the church they won't resurrect you, for example. A criminal executed won't be brought back. If your body is never found, or if it's too tainted with black magic... and so on)

In a standard combat, you can choose "when to stop fighting" and if you stop fighting, that means you roleplay loosing the fight - but you don't die. If your opponent chooses to kill your character, the system explicitly asks for your permission.
If you decide to "fight to the end" then your character might die in the combat without giving permission (but it explicitly warns you that you're giving permission by continuing to fight past that point)

Staff also enforce that characters can be killed if they bring the action upon themselves through actions that could reasonably lead to their character being killed.
If you mess with the local mafia boss, the boss warns you to back off, and you mess with him again, then staff will enforce that, if the boss wants to send assassins after you, those assassins might be successful. You can't just say "Nope, I don't want my character to die" - since you clearly brought that outcome on yourself. (And it would have to be more than the mafia boss doing it on a whim or just because you had one argument) - that's just a random example, but the point is "you can die if you bring it upon yourself, but there are always clear ways to avoid the outcome"

Log on, log off, whenever you want.
Obviously, you have advantages to playing more regularly - more time online gives more chance to learn skills, more chance to roleplay with other characters and make allies, more chance to get involved in plots.

But if you don't play, your character won't loose anything they currently have. Won't get exiled, imprisoned, or anything of the sort. Their items won't vanish. Their money won't be spent. So when you return you'll have a similar level of resources to when you left.

There are, of course, individual exceptions. One halloween there were spiders wandering the game that could be caught and kept as pets. About eight months later there was a plot where those spiders died from a disease (and anyone foolish enough to poke, hug, kiss etc. the dead spiders caught the disease) - so in a case like that, your spider would be dead whether you were playing the game or not. But that's more because it was a "time-limited item" and not because of any penalty for not playing.

I'd find it absolutely unacceptable to be overtly unfriendly due to sexuality/race/gender.
Most of the playerbase would share my opinion. All of the staff do.
We have a player who is quite open about transitioning to another gender, and I'm not aware of her ever having issues from other players.

This is one of the big advantages of having a paid game. Players tend to be more mature about issues like this, since they have something more tangible to loose, and they've invested money into the game. It doesn't apply to every player (and there are some very mature playerbases on some free games) but it does seem to be one of the contributing factors to a mature playerbase.

That said, the game-world IS full of harsh injustice. It has slavery, duels to the death, a feudal society... and discrimination against homosexuality. The church is a strong influence in the world, and the church is a proponent of the family structure. This is very much an IN CHARACTER thing, and while setting that up, staff were VERY careful to make it not discriminate against any homosexual PLAYERS, and in fact they were careful not to stop homosexual CHARACTERS from roleplaying that. (And many characters in the game, of both gender, are homosexual) - what it requires is that the homosexual characters, as part of their roleplay, keep things "behind closed doors" and don't do something like publicly introduce their same-sex partner and tell people that they are lovers. They can still hint, and make it clear, but they need to leave the church enough leeway that they can look the other way.

silvarilon 05-01-2011 07:57 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
Yah. A deal-breaker for you. And we are pay-for-play.
But as I said before, try it out with the free 1 month trial. I'm very serious about us trying to organize for the game to go free. We finished our proposal for going free today(!) and are ready to send it to the parent company. They requested that we make the proposal, so it's pretty lightly that it'll be accepted.

So unofficially, yeah, it should be free for you.

We don't have a huge playerbase, but we tend to have 10 to 25 people online at most times. Less (down to 3 to 5) during weird hours, like 4am US time.
There's usually at least a few people to roleplay with.

As I mentioned, custom codebase - so flexibility there is good :)

The genre is a renaissance setting in a magic-light world, a political game where noble houses fight over the future of a trading city, while the commoners try to push for rights and power.
Think Florence in the 1500s. If you like history.
If you don't, you can just jump in, see it as a "medieval fantasy" setting with muskets, and ignore the rest.

That's exactly what I was intending to build when I started. I wanted a game where the first priority was the roleplaying, not the game mechanics. But where game mechanics would support the roleplay.
And I wanted roleplay to mean something. Having a conversation with another character should lead to a different outcome for my character. Not a game like WoW where the roleplay doesn't matter as much as "playing the game mechanics" matters.

So... I'd love to know your opinion on how well I succeeded at that goal.

And apologies for shilling my game. If it's not what you're after, let me know why, and I'll try to come up with another recommendation.
;)

SnowTroll 05-01-2011 10:00 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I'd probably recommend New Worlds (). It's pretty close to your criteria.

It's roleplay-enforced, but not one of those super strict RPIs. But unlike a lot of the casual RPE muds out there, everyone RPs. There's also a certain friendly, social quality you can find there that you don't find in serious RPIs that lack channels or any hack and slash gaming elements.

There's no way to opt out of the PK system, but PK is a pretty rare thing with a lot of rules surrounding it. Pretty much, people only PK if there's significant and very deserving RP leading up to it. It's also a really simple system, though, so there aren't any complex tricks or strategies to learn. If PK elsewhere hasn't been your thing, you don't have to worry about being at a disadvantage if you decide to RP a route that leads to a PvP conflict in New Worlds. Once you've played for a little bit, you know everything necessary to escape, survive, or kill someone that a long time player knows, though you'll probably never use it. PK is rare. The roleplayed disadvantages to being on someone's crap list far outweigh getting killed.

#3 is probably the farthest from what you're looking for. While you won't get into trouble or lose equipment (there's no rent system or mandatory active time or anything stupid like that), you will tend to miss out on a lot of ongoing RP if you don't play with regularity. It's fine to log in and out whever you feel like it, and the game will be there when you get back, but you may have missed some events and not know what's going on until someone catches you up. That could get pretty frustrating if you only played once a week.

I've never seen gay or female players treated badly there. Is this really a problem in the mudding community? Even in character, the game is fairly egalitarian, with a lot of women in important positions, and even a few homosexual characters who generally get shrugged off rather than harassed.

It's a pay for perks system. You can play all you want and never spend any money, but there are some neat features available by payment. If you're the type who feels left out or second class when someone else has something neat you can't get without paying, this might be a deal breaker for you.

Orrin 05-01-2011 12:29 PM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I didn't realise it was a commercial game (I'd always thought it was an LP). Also, doesn't he promote his mud as completely free?

What kinds of perks can you pay for and what are the prices like?

SnowTroll 05-01-2011 02:38 PM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
Don't want to derail the thread. I'll send you a PM.

Isles of Aedin is getting good buzz, too. ()

It's an RPE, though a little more loose in that requirement than New Worlds, and a smaller playerbase. Same deal with the PK system: No opting out, but killing someone needs to be an RP based thing. The playerbase is pretty cool and friendly and likes to foster interesting RP, so you're more likely to get into a verbal fight than a PK. It has a nifty skill-based system where you get better at various abilities by using them, so there's less of a hack and slash component, and more of a "what do I want to spam today" element. While some people find that type of gameplay tedious, it lets you specialize your character a little bit. Maybe your wizard or rouge does something well that other wizards and rogues don't, rather than everyone just going up levels.

Being somewhat light and casual in the RP department (still required, but not heavily enforced if someone exhibits an immature, gameish or unrealistic number crunching type persona) means your playing time can be a bit more irregular and you won't miss as much. And there's no payment system. The mud takes donations, and appreciates them, but no money is required nor does it get you anything in the game.

Darren Brimhall 05-01-2011 03:29 PM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I recomend Ironclaw; its very straightfoirward and easy to grasp, and the people there are very welcoming towards new players.

I suggest looking up Lord Ardian (I hope I spelled the name right), he's exstreamly helpful towards new players.


Darren Brimhall

KaVir 05-01-2011 04:04 PM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
Hrm interesting, I always thought it was completely free too, but apparently it's pay-for-perks. You buy "tokens" for $1 each, and they can be converted into gold or exp (10K per token), or used to buy various items or bonuses for up to $1000. At a glance the bonuses don't appear to be balance-breaking though, certainly not compared to a couple of other pay-for-perks muds I've seen (both beginning with "M").

Suicide Boy 05-05-2011 05:21 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
The word "free" has been abused throughout recent Western history — in television and radio commercials, magazine ads, junk mail, and other forms of advertisement; at automobile dealerships; and of course in the public relations aspect of MUDs and other forms of online gaming.

In my opinion, "completely free" should mean that there's no option to receive a perk of any kind by paying money to the developer. Otherwise, you're lying — or, at the very least, being disingenuous. If you're not being entirely up-front about your business model, you're not being completely honest. That's simple fact.

Personally, I consider it an insult to my intelligence when companies or individuals try to obfuscate their full business model "until I'm addicted" or "until I'm sucked in." I don't like being treated like a ruminant herd animal.

Threshold (is it any secret that New Worlds and Threshold are direct competitors at this point?) handles this particular issue much better, in my opinion. Frogdice doesn't blatantly advertise their registration system, but neither do they claim that Threshold is any flavor of "free." Also, registration is mentioned to new players early on, and the costs and rewards are fully documented and explained.

If players can trade their real-life wealth for IC wealth (and/or perks and XP), your game ain't "completely free" — end of story. It's free to play, a term I personally hate but which everyone recognizes and understands these days. It means you don't have to pay a dime to play, but if you don't ever want to pay, it will take you a lot longer to make money and get certain powerful/helpful items (if you're able to get them at all).

Many, many pay-for-perks MUDs are guilty of hiding the magnitude of their pay-for-perks systems, by which I mean letting players know just exactly what they can get for their donations and how "screwed" they'll be if they won't/can't donate. Kudos to those that aren't like that.

SnowTroll 05-05-2011 10:18 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
You're taking New Worlds' new pay for perks system awfully personally. It's a brand new thing. Honestly, I don't think the game staff is trying to hide anything. They're just still in the process of coming around on exactly how to explain it when they advertise. If they try to stick with something misleading like "We're completely free and just have some optional things you can buy if you want to donate," I'll be right behind you badmouthing the mud, but once the dust settles, I'll bet they'll be pretty clear about their pay for perks model. As you noted, New Worlds is a lot like Threshold, with regard to its system and the style of its playerbase, and it's probably going through a lot of the same steps. There was probably a time long ago when Theshold switched from a free mud to a payment system and sparks flew until things got situated again.

Suicide Boy 05-05-2011 10:44 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
Well, for starters, this is the first time I've heard that New Worlds' pay-for-perks system is only just now being implemented. If you read the thread above our two posts, nowhere is it mentioned that the pay-for-perks system is new. I assumed (wrongly, but not foolishly, I think; it was a natural assumption) that the system had been in place for some time, and that I was just now hearing about it.

In light of that heretofore unmentioned curve ball, sure, I'm inclined to cut New Worlds some slack.

But I stand by what I said in that it applies generally to the marketing strategy of any MUD, even if we disregard New Worlds. There are some MUDs that have been around for ages that are pay-for-perks, but you wouldn't know it to read their website or from the information available to new players at the beginning of the game. I don't mind pay-for-perks at all (and I'm at a point in my life where I can afford a fair number of perks), as long as they're up-front about it.

I will say that I dislike pay-to-win MUDs, but some people seem to enjoy them. I'm not taking any of it truly personally, however, though I do resent it when I feel that someone's marketing strategy insults my intelligence as a potential customer. I know my posts read as being rather passionate, but it's not like I'm hopping up and down in front of my computer with steam coming from my ears.

Remmy 05-05-2011 11:09 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
You should check out Genesis, mud.genesismud.org Port: 3011




We are a fantasy MUD where roleplaying is a huge part of the game, being around as long as we have there are plenty of older characters with over 10-15+ years of experience who always make the game fun and exciting.


Our PvP system allows you to attack anyone for any reason, though we do have some unwritten rules that are followed to prevent harassment. And it's quite possible to avoid it completely, there is no permadeath in the game as you are reincarnated by our very own Lars Pensjö who was the original author of the LPMud engine and LPC programming language and our founder of the game.


You don't die, become exiled or receive any punishment other then if you don't log in for a month or two you can lose your herbs or potions. You do however lose your equipment upon logging out, However all guilds have a rack system where such things can be stored and shared between members.

In my 10 years of playing I have seen males with other males and females with females even Humans with Goblins! I'm pretty sure I can speak for the Admin on this one in saying that any discrimination will be dealt with efficiently.

Amen. Genesis doesn't charge a thing, I believe once or twice throughout the existence of the game they have had a fund raiser sort of thing where you could donate if you wished to upgrade hardware but nothing was, has or ever will be forced when it comes to paying to play.

jackal59mo2 05-07-2011 03:59 PM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
Good job of finding that. I just looked at their TMC listing, their listing here, and their Web site (at least to the main page after their splash page), and I can find no mention of any "play for perks" system. You'd think that implementing such a system would be something you'd update your listings and your own site to reflect, wouldn't you?

Dionae 05-08-2011 10:07 PM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I'd recommend .

1.) Mandatory roleplay.

Yep.

2.) No/avoidable PK.

You can generally avoid pk if you wish to. I've only been attacked twice, both times by deathpriests (who are, well... priests of the god of death... not nice people ;)). The first time they just stunned me since I was a newbie, and the second time I got away. It's probably easier to avoid pk if you are not a member of an occupational guild, since most strife tends to come between them, but some guilds are less combative than others. And there are a number of non-combative or minimally-combative characters around.

3.) Allows for a flexible schedule.

Yep.

4.) Friendly to queer/female players.

Haven't ever noticed any bad behavior in this regard, and harassment of other players is generally frowned upon.

5.) No pay-for-play.

Free, huzzah!

Fifi 05-09-2011 07:35 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I say Armageddon, of course, I'm partial. I've played Arm for nine years and I'm still enjoying it.

It's not everything you're looking for. You have far less input than you seem to want into whether your pc lives or dies, but you can better your odds by playing safe.

Friendly is a relative sort of thing. We want rpers to come, to play, to contribute, but we tend not to be bright shiny and smiley. (We are however patient, and glad to get new blood.)

Still, (and I know I'm going to get **** for coming out and saying this straight up) we have the best rp on the web. There's a dedication to world consistency, realism, and collaborative storytelling.

IZDemon 05-09-2011 01:08 PM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I had no idea this was an issue. I know of more than one openly gay woman that I have played with and this issue has never even occured to me. In fact, at least two if them, played very well known characters and were well liked OOC among our MUD community.

Darren Brimhall 05-09-2011 08:07 PM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I've played with both Male and Female Gay players, and I know they'd take offense at the "Queer' remark.

They'd also take great offense at the OOC harrassment, and they knew their rights. So, if Staff was too slow to diffuse the issue, they knew how to gain legal help.

Its also interesting to note; I've played a female bi-sexual character though I'm Straight and have recieved no such Harrassemnt while playing the character.

What may needs to be done in the player's case is to 'shop around' for a Game that has open minded players. And the best way of doing this would be a visit to the Game's fourms, even post questions about the acceptance of such players/characters in their community to see what the reaction would be.

But all in all, do exspect a player to take offense towards another's sexual orentation. There's bound to be one in any group.


Darren Brimhall

melopene 05-10-2011 12:16 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I have quite a few LGBT friends IRL, and few of them have issues self-identifying as 'queer'.

Also, I've played a lot of different MUDs over the years, and never known one to be openly hostile to LGBT players. HOWEVER, considering that a large contingent of MUD players these days come from rural areas with less than adequate broadband, I wouldn't be surprised if anti-gay views more common in rural communities (versus urban ones, and yes, I am making a blanket generalization here) filtered through into a player's experience on some games.

Fifi 05-10-2011 10:10 PM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I got in trouble on our discussion boards for not having mentioned that Arm is LGBT friendly. And it is.

Wik 05-13-2011 12:25 AM

Re: Looking for a friendly, active, RP-oriented game
 
I wouldn't post, but your requirements are such an easy fit for OtherSpace, I really couldn't resist.

1.) Mandatory roleplay.

We have an engaging storyline, enthusiastic players, and yeah, bottom line: We're about rp. That's what we do, and we've done it well for almost 13 years.


2.) No/avoidable PK.

We have something we call ICA=ICC, meaning in-character actions have in-character consequences. As long as you don't go waggling weapons at people or hanging out in the lawless sections of the grid, there's no reason you should expect to be killed.


3.) Allows for a flexible schedule.

We accommodate a wide variety of play schedules. I wouldn't suggest being an organization leader or on a ship's crew, but beyond that, there are plenty of roles appropriate for someone who only logs on occasionally.


4.) Friendly to queer/female players.

Nobody cares about orientations on OS. We have girls who play boys who like boys to play girls who do boys like they're girls who do girls like they're boys...you get the idea. We've got a decent contingent of out gay players, and a decent contingent of out gay characters, and a decent contingent of people who just don't care to share that info with us, and that's fine too.

5.) No pay-for-play.

Good thing, we ain't.

Interested? Head to jointhesaga.com: 1790, or pop over to for more information. I look forward to seeing you there.


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