Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

How do you, as player and/or administrator, deal with RP attention hogs?

Do you just let them be?

Do you try to talk to them privately about why it might be better to share the spotlight?

Do you even consider this a problem?

I generally think RP attention hogs are a bad thing - more so if they are actually good role players. A good RP environment needs people who are willing to share the spotlight. People need to be willing to participate in a supporting role as well. People who expect to always be the main character alienate people fast, and then the game ends up losing out on their RP contributions.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Good questions. I try to coach them. If coaching doesn't work, the problem tends to solve itself as other players just start ignoring/shunning them. Eventually, they go away.

I agree that it can be unfortunate in the short term when they're driven away, but long-term it might be the best thing for the game to cut its losses and try to find new blood that's less driven to be the center of attention all the time.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

This is what we do as well. It seems to work... sometimes. :p

I wish I could figure out a way to deal with this and have a higher success rate. I define success here as:
I think there are honestly some people out there who absolutely WILL NOT play a game unless they can be in the spotlight 24/7. Since some of these people actually are decent RPers, you can see why they might have been able to get away with this elsewhere. Those are probably the types that are hopeless and thus you just have to sigh sadly as they eventually drift away.

I wonder if there are people who think players like this are no big deal, and no administrative involvement is needed, necessary, or even desired.

Is it better for the admins to just stay out of it and let it totally take its course in game?

Personally, I think an admin has to always be somewhat involved, and always be aware of things like this going on in his/her/their game. Involved admins are the difference, imho, between a mediocre free-for-all and a quality RP environment.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I agree that admins need to stay involved, especially in an RP-enforced environment, but that's not just because of keeping quality assurance for RP. It's for everything. Got to keep the game's heartbeat going. Schedule events, promote peer recognition activities (like RP +voting), help newbies, and make sure players who are allegedly helping newbies are actually being helpful.

I've taken time off from my games in the past and every time I take a hiatus, things start to slide until I bounce back into active mode again. Even if I'm just around a little at night to handle +staffrequests, talk to admins, work on the latest Wiki-filling drive, I make myself available and make people aware that I've got an eye and an ear to what's going on.

Tends to keep the admins on their toes, too, which helps feed the beast as they schedule their own activities and work on projects to better the MUSHes.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

That is very, very true. Oh how the mice will play when the cat's away... eh? :p

I'm curious if any other folks have suggestions for dealing with this phenomenon, or examples of how they have dealt with it on their own game.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

For my part, I just ignore them (publically, sometimes I swear to myself and wish they leave quickly). That's generally the attitude we take towards most things like this - very hands off and just observational for the most part, unless things really get out of hand. It probably helps that we don't have a lot of staff-player interaction like other games do, for example we don't have staff-played deities or much of any kind of "immortal on the ground" behaviour, if staff wish to play with mortals then they play a mortal, for the most part. Instead, we try to give players the tools to run things like that themselves, where possible. As most RP hogs seem to seek staff/imm attention for the most part, this helps to keep things quiet on that front.

Another reason is that there are always two sides to a coin, and people can spin the same event whichever way they prefer. It's easy for a disgruntled player to honestly believe that their RP was great and that the game staff are just jealous and/or wouldn't know good RP if it bit their collective noses off, or that they're being spied upon and kept down, etc. This can quickly spread through that individual's friends, clan and whatever else. So, while you might be totally in the right to coach/guide and are probably acting for the greater good of the game, it isn't without its problems. Not to say that admins should just put the blinkers on and not care - but we watch and keep close tabs, and only intervene when it is truly necessary. Then I go and play rugby to take out any aggression.

That said, my formative first-year-and-a-bit of mudding was on Threshold, so at least to some degree Aristotle's way did stop me from becoming an RP hog. ;)

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Making them leaders so they can drive play for other players is an approach that has worked well for us in some cases, but not all.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I suppose my initial question here is: How do we define RP hog?

Is an RP hog someone who gets attention just for walking into a room?

Is an RP hog someone who demands attention just for walking into a room?

Is an RP hog someone who conducts their characters in such a way that it requires attention whenever they are in a room?

Is an RP hog someone who prefers to play in smaller groups where said person will likely receive more individualized attention just on virtue of there being fewer people to split attention between?

Is an RP hog a leader in a faction and thus receives attention whenever brought out on virtue of that?

(Why is it I always want to use 'an' as the article when referring to RP when my language lessons have taught me that it should be 'a?'

Cause if all of those are RPhogdom, then I'm an RP hog and will comment in that way. :>

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

This one.

If nobody else is ever allowed to be the center of attention, then that is an RP hog.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Personally my method is to avoid these people in large scenes. The profile I've experienced with most of these players is that they're fueled not by themselves, but by other players. If they're surrounded by their fans there's little I can do about them, as a player. If I must play with them I will often insist they come alone or with a minimal entourage.

An imperfect solution for what Threshold defines as an RP hog, yes, however it saves me as a player strife. That and I've noticed true RP hogs lose support eventually, so it's a matter of waiting some of them out.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

*bumped for further discussion*

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I love freshly dead threads. They are the most susceptible to my necro-posting habit.

I guess I don't make a huge distinction between plot/NPC-chasers and RPhogs.
Both suffer from center-of-attention-deficit disorder in some form or other.

It's a tightrope walk for admins, I imagine. Partly, you want to reward diligence, character ingenuity and decent RP, giving the benefit of the doubt where possible that it's a character rather than a player trait.

If you have multi-characters for a single account, it's a little easier to distinguish, since every character from a perpetually attention-starved player will behave similarly. "I have entered the room. All kneel, or stop what you are doing, as I ejaculate this scene unto you. I am certain it is more important than what you are doing, as it has now the impeccable virtue of my presence. You're welcome." Exeunt, stage left.
Whaddayagonnado?

Often, I've simply wondered what would happen if an NPC (presuming the interrupted scene has staff involved) said, simply enough, "Try not to talk with your mouth open." And just as easily, I imagine said character doing anything at all possible to make sure the largest text blocks or overtly interruptive actions are theirs, even if their mouth is closed. Oh, wait, I haven't imagined it, I've lived it.

Mostly, the consequences should come IC. I mean, people like that are -annoying-. Treat them as their actions merit. Players can often curb such behavior, over time.

The last thing an admin should do is reward the behavior. A minimal RPA sends a message. If you withhold the RPA, the character may even try harder to snatch that spotlight. Something that runs counter-intuitive in my experience is simply having some plots seek out those that don't seek them first.

I love examples.
In this one, most of the playerbase was in a single location for a staff-hosted event, very similar to a chess tournament. Such a player/character, arriving late, during a game match in which such spam as three paragraphs of comically blathering attention-suction can literally scroll the match player's board off the screen, and did what was typical. Burst into the room with an obviously pre-typed speech, perhaps a page and a half of scroll, and spewed it. It was humorous, no doubt, but disruptive IC and for OOC reasons.
There were several staff-run characters present, and their IC reaction was negligible, although at least four of them had not only the authority to put an end to it, but one might even argue an obligation to do so.

What would you do?

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Nuke the site from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

In ten minutes, this area is going to be a cloud of vapor the size of Nebraska.

I love it.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Hope you guys don't mind me bumping this thread up a little.

I must confess; I think this describes me a little.

Let me explain. I don't bitch oocly if I don't get attention. I don't whine and complain if I don't get attention. But I -hate- sitting on the bench and just waiting for stuff to happen, and if I am actually focusing on my RP I never do that. Nor do I sit around chatting about the weather because, frankly, if I'm gonna bore myself with small talk I might as well make it worth my while to do so, like join an RL cocktail party or something. Instead, I stir up stuff, get trouble going, do weird stuff, engage people in conflict. Basically, I do anything besides 'normal' stuff and small talk. Unfortunately (or fortunately?), that invariably ends up with me being the centre of attention. But I feel (and people have told me) that it does give the game some much-needed spice when I do so.

I don't think it's a bad thing, really. Is it? :rolleyes:

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Perhaps it depends on the context and the setting, Misao. If, for instance, there's 4 PCs sitting at the bar, engaged in general chit-chat because they're pals and are just hanging out at night..

and you walk in and don't think people should just hang out at bars, and disrupt their conversation by taking off your clothes and dancing on the bar...

well then it would make sense for them to be/do any of the following:

entertained
irritated
fearful
amused
eager to join in the dance
oocly annoyed that someone interrupted what -they- thought was a very important bonding scene between characters who knew each other
call for the authorities to take the insane person out of public view
beat the crap out of the dancing freak
snicker
giggle
get up and go somewhere else where they don't have to deal with the distraction, which they should've expected since it's a public bar afterall.

You shouldn't expect that people will want to deal with your version of fun or drama. They might want to. Or they might not. As long as you don't expect it, or feel that your version of fun/drama trumps theirs, then it's all good.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Those are all IC consequences, which are fine and good (except for the oocly annoyed part).

What the people are talking about here is oocly dealing with the person as an IMM though.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I've never had to try to deal with this as an administrator, but on our game, it's rarely been a problem and it does tend to sort itself out.

Certain players do try to overwhelm things, and take over the RP scene for themselves, but for us, PK tends to become the neutralizer. If a character draws too much attention to themself, they tend to get targetted by someone or another, whether it's a clan, or an individual character that takes a disliking to the person.

Attention hogs, at their best, will steer roleplay in a positive direction, because even though everything they do tends to be centered around themselves, it does create opportunities for others to step into the story and involve themselves too... whether with or without the blessing of the Hog.

Additionally, once somebody's been smacked down a few times for being a showboat, they tend to lower their profile a bit.

9000

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I believe RP spotlighters (leads in a play or even a secondary role that does so good they take the spotlight) are good. This would be attributed to someone like Michael J. Fox on Family Ties (Alex Keaton). His original part was limited and only secondary. Because of his delivery he was turned into the Lead. Same with Erkle (sp?) and that show. Erkle was a secondary role but his spotlighting made him the lead and the show very enjoyable.

The same is for roleplayers who spotlight by RP but don't "take" the spotlight by shoving the crew out of the way and pointing it at themselves. This happened on a film set I was on. One of the extras in my scene was a wannabe actor and as the A.D. yelled "background" (the action for extras) one of the extras yelled "wait, I'm not sure of my motivation for this part!" as the crew gaffawed the A.D. said, "Motivation? You want motivation? Okay, get the @!#$^% off the set!"

My point here is that some players get bored and want attention via dramatics in usually relationship rp being the wounded girlfriend that was cheated on and drawing the world into it, or pretending they have some disease or have been possessed by an evil spirit. We have rules against this, but it doesn't stop it from happening and can be annoying.

On the other hand, a good roleplayer building up a story that doesn't revolve aroune "me me me" can really enhance the game. I see this happen a lot by true selfless rpers.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

But that's not an RP attention hog as defined for this thread. The very fact that you said "in a positive direction" right away eliminates that type of person from being the type this thread is about.

An RP attention hog is someone who requires that all RP be all about their character all the time. If a situation evolves that puts someone else at the center of attention, even if it is enjoyed by hundreds of people who are very engaged in the RP, this type of person will do everything they can do ruin or destroy that RP plotline so they can steer things back to something about them.

I have seen a few posts here where people are basically redefining RP Attention Hog as someone who RPs in a way that generally attracts a lot of attention. That's not the same thing at all. Good RPers attract attention. That's not a bad thing, and that isn't what I was getting at with this thread.

An RP Attention Hog is the negative extreme where someone's desire to ALWAYS be the center of attention has become a problem, and thus the Admins need to do something about it.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Agreed though I would add that an RP attention hog would not necessarily do everything they can to ruin or destroy an RP plotline if they can simply shift the center of attention to themselves. In other words, if the RP plotline can continue with them as the focal point instead of someone else, they won't necessarily destroy it so much as hijack it. If they can't shift the attention to themselves, then yes, they'll often times end up ruining or destroying it in their attempt.

Dealing with it is something that requires a case-by-case basis depending on the personality of the player. Sometimes talking to them can put a stop to it before it becomes too bad and sometimes you simply have to resort to harsher punishments.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

The is a real problem and never something enjoyable to deal with as it many times ends in cryings of foul and drama in ooc.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Take a leaf from WoW's book and introduce an ignore function for players :-)

Once ignored, the person for that session, has all emotes to 'xxxx does something but you hardly notice' and everything they say to 'xxxx is talking but its so remarkably inane you dont register the words'

Ignore lists are cleared at every logoff

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

The mud I play has an ignore list, to prevent harassment throughout the pbase, but it's uses are far greater for out of character interactions than in-character ones.

This sounds an awful lot like "ways to punish people who buy into your RP system." Pure and simple, the best way to "deal with" RP attention hogs, aside from simply pulling them aside OOCly and speaking to them about the problem... is probably to HANDLE IT IN THE ROLEPLAY!!

If someone is a horn-blowing douche, rip them a new one! Or get someone else to! Or get a BUNCH of people to! Or organize some kind of movement against said person, even if it's non-violent... but do it IN CHARACTER! And force that person to adjust their play. This will probably result in a lower-key RP.

If someone won't willingly leave the spotlight, you force them out of it. But punishing them for buying into the RP system? Seems silly. 9000

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Yeah I definitely hate the regular approach most roleplayers take with the whole "I am the great blah blah blah" ... it should be more about adventures and cooperation!

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I find this problem pretty alien.

If people are roleplaying, it's assumed they're in-character, right? So why aren't they dealing with these attention hogs in an in-character manner? Confrontation and (IC) drama is core to roleplaying and indeed any sort of fiction, why avoid it?

I understand that admin may want to avoid OOC drama, but if players are unable to separate IC drama and conflict from their OOC selves then they need to be coached on it - the inability to separate IC and OOC events, actions and feelings is a bigger detriment to truly excellent roleplay than any loudmouth can ever hope to be.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Because there are not always IC ways to deal with the ways in which an RP hog manifests itself.

How do you deal with it IC when someone happens to be a super fast typist so they overwhelm RP events?

How do you deal with it IC when someone plays a game 20 hours a day and they show up at every thing event and try to take it over?

And those are just two examples.

When someone becomes a true RP attention hog, there are often not appropriate ways to handle it IC.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Old thread, but interesting topic. Honestly, you're both right. An OOC approach doesn't have to completely replace or eliminate an IC approach. In a well-designed and well-run game, OOC and IC features complement each other, rather than working at odds with each other.

When it comes to recommending and enforcing player-to-player courtsey and etiquette, nobody should have to try to twist what is essentially an impolite player OOC into an IC concept due to some elitist "I'm so 1337, I RP everything, even the OOC stuff" mentality. Mud owners should make and enforce OOC mud policies through OOC means. Peer pressure works. If 50 other players are all abiding by polite mud etiquette, the one impolite one is going to stick out like a sore thumb and draw some scorn. And if the 50 other players are all having fun and make their courteous way of doing things look enjoyable, as well as appreciated, that might change a few minds.

But at the same time, if some attention monger sticks his nose into everything and won't shut up and keeps dominating every scene and thrusting himself/herself all over, surely people are going to get sick of him IC. "Weren't you just at the anti-mage rally last week making a spectacle of yourself? Why are you at the pro-mage rally this week kissing the other half's asses and making yet another scene? Which side are you on? You had no busisness attending at least one of those two rallies, and I have a sneaking suspicion you had no business attending either of them since you're a Troll Barbarian who's never had an opinion on magic until someone scheduled a rally you could crash, and now suddenly you're spouting magical theory out of nowhere? And I'm getting awfully sick of having a casual chat with my friends in the bar and having you insert your opinion about everything. I think I'm going to stab you now."

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I can't say I really understand your examples. Can you give me some concrete ones? Because I don't really understand how one can 'overwhelm' or 'take over' RP events without other players being able to take IC action to prevent it.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Player-to-player courtesy and etiquette, IMO, should apply OOCly. But the crux of any fiction - RP included - is conflict and if all the characters are bffs4eva you're missing out on a lot of fun. Which is why I appreciate your second paragraph, I think it approaches what I was getting at originally.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

That may be the crux of fiction, but we are running virtual worlds here. Fun is not always about conflict or creating interactive fiction. Sometimes the fun comes from immersing yourself in a fantastical world. That is something that quite often does not, and should not, involve conflict.


Hmmm. I already did?

If someone types 140 words a minute and uses that to scroll the screen such that his RP dominates everyone else, there's often no legit/realistic IC action to counter it.

In fact, to try and get them to stop typing so much might actually be super OOC. Especially if a lot of the things the person is typing are mood setting emotes or personal actions (not just speech) so you can't even say IC "hey, can you quiet down?"

In the past we had had things like someone showing up at an IC wedding as a guest, and they type 10 times more stuff than the primary participants. Things like emoting about fidgeting in their seat and all sorts of random stuff just to get attention. There's no great IC counter.

Ask them to leave? Why?

Ask them to be quiet? They aren't talking.

RP Attention Hogs are very often a pure OOC problem.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Walk away. If someone tried to monopolize your time at a bar, especially if they were annoying you, you would probably either leave or confront them. In the appropriate RP setting you could probably kill the offending character for running their mouth, if not you could always go somewhere else.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Player's point of view here.

In my primary game, we occasionally get varying levels of RP hogs.
The staff don't need to intervene much, since we've never had the '60mph scroll' hogs.

Very very rarely, however, a newbie will suddenly appear, run into the room, and demand instant attention to his vital RP story.

Once was an outcast who ran into a bar and insisted that everyone jump up and search for the pack that was trying to kill him.
Meanwhile, everyone told him that the city is guarded well, and the people in room could protect him from just about anything. Well, he finished panicking when nobody got involved, and left. Sadly, that character was never seen again.

That kind of case doesn't really require any IMM intervention.

In another case, massive IMM intervention was needed to stop a high ranking noble that kept killing people (It's illegal), degrading other players, and trying to set off a war that nobody wanted.

When i asked his player about it, he replied 'I don't play (Game name), I play (His Character name).'

That encapsulates the thinking of the extreme RP hogs, I think. They're not trying to be a part of a community, they just want their action, and all the attention.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Sure there is - since they're just 'fidgeting' and you can't tell them to quiet down, no one notices and everything continues on. If they fidget non-stop, put yourself in the situation. You notice someone constantly fidgeting IRL, what comes to mind? That something is obviously wrong with them? Are they tweaking on something? Do you want junkies at your wedding?

That said, why was this guy invited to the wedding in the first place? Was he a friend of the groom or the bride? No? Then they have every IC reason to ask an uninvited guest to leave.

You can't really emote doing nothing, so they're doing something. If they're doing something constantly it's going to ICly get on someone's nerves.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

On Ateraan we have special ways to deal with attention hogs. It's actually some pretty nifty code for special events, major roleplay episodes, and even some guild powers to control all forms of attention grabbers. I won't go into details of the code, but even though it is effective, I still think having mature players and strong rules is the best defense.

I tend to steer clear of the "What would you do IRL" answers. Because most people aren't riding dragons, turning invisible, and cutting off the heads of orcs IRL.;)

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Walk away? So when there is a big event planned to have a wedding in a specific location, every other person has to walk away?

Isn't that sorta ridiculous?

And like I said, its not always someone "running their mouth", nor would any IC action be appropriate to someone emoting every little thing they are doing - especially if they are perfectly natural things that are reasonably happening but a more reasonable person wouldn't try to dominate every situation and make himself/herself the center of attention at all times.

I'm not sure why there is so much trouble understanding the very real, obvious, and clear possibility that RP attention hogs exist and there are a ton of ways for which there is no proper or appropriate IC reaction or solution.

And in those situations, dealing with it OOC is the only way.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I know RP hogs exists. I don't question that at all. I think I have a different definition of RP hog that you do. So, perhaps I've oversimplified my response. Or I haven't had to deal with it at the same level you have had to deal with it.

My approach would be to deal with it IC if the character's behavior was IC. If the character's behavior was an OOC detriment to the game (ie typing so fast and so much that they spammed the other players to the point they couldn't play) I'd come at it OOC, but then I'm dealing with what I would consider a different problem.

How would you classify the budding novelist who needs to spend five minute writing every pose and expects everyone else to sit around idle waiting for them? I've encountered this far more often than I have someone trying to hog all of the RP, and I've never found a successful IC way to deal with it.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I appreciate your point and I think that's definitely the way to go in an IDEAL SITUATION. But then again, when it is ideal, you probably aren't dealing with an RP attention hog.

RP attention hogs are those people who try (or succeed) at finding ways to make every single RP situation center around them or re-direct towards them. They are usually very good at doing this in ways that you can't reasonably or logically shut them down IC. They are also often good RPers which is why there is often no legit way to shut them down IC.

But it sucks hugely for everyone else because nobody wants the same person to always be the center of attention - no matter how good of an RPer they are.

There are times where the only way to solve it is to talk to the person OOC, and that can be a challenge. You don't want to discourage their good RP, but you want to make sure they understand that they cannot always be the center of attention. So you have to educate without alienating. That's why I started this thread (5 years ago!) - so people could discussion the situations where there was no easy IC solution.

The situations where you can deal with it IC are the trivial situations where a discussion like this isn't needed.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

And with the resolution you come up with, you play -right- into the dramahog's game: taking the focus away from the scene that was trying to be presented by the majority, and placing the focus on the dramahog.

Wedding interrupted - check.
Dramahog gets to play the star of the show/victim/perpetrator - check
Bride and Groom's joyous moment forgotten and ignored while everyone deals with noticing the bouncer going to the dramahog to escort him out (and if he's truly a dramahog, he'll put up a fuss, or make excuses, or demand justice, etc. etc.) - check.

This is what the dramahog lives for: the exact type of situation AND resolution you refer to.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I don't believe it's an attention-monger's goal to actually ruin the rp scene they're mongering. That's just a common side effect. Most of them seriously believe they're adding to an rp event by throwing their skilled emotes into the spotlight every 30 seconds and portraying their awesome character in an entertaining fashion. In their mind, what's the point of attending anything if you're just going to sit silently and watch others rp? You're there to be a part of the scene, not watch other people act out a scene. In their mind, if you're not going to emote, participate, and get some attention (even if your character doesn't have much legitimate business doing so), you might as well just read the log later and not waste time being there. Not that an attention-monger would ever skip an event. Those chances to impress groups of people at a special time when a lot of people are in one place can be few and far between.

Most of the time, if you run off an attention-monger, whether using using IC or OOC means, he/she isn't going to thrive on being the victim. More likely, your attention seeker is going to go ape on ooc channels if the mud has them, claiming that people here are stifling rp rather than encouraging it, the other people around here can't rp their way out of a paper bag, boldly proclaim that the mud sucks, then log off. Attention mongers actually believe they're speical. They're not out to ruin the game for others. On the contrary, what they desperately hope to do is impress others and get credit for making the game better and entertaining.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Are you actually saying that you would hold an IC event, invite Players to it, but then expect the players to do nothing during the event other than observe you or some small subset of the characters present? And if they did perform some sort of action, then they would be the RP hog?

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Again, you're missing the point. This is about attention-hogs, not normal roleplay. Since you're not getting it, I'll lay out a typical attention hog scene - same wedding. There are 30 PCs present, including the bride and groom.

The high wizard asks groom to give his vows.

The green-eyed guest reaches for her purple-polka-dotted silvery spidersilk hankie and waves it in the air.

Before the groom can type enter on his first line, the green-eyed guest's eyes mist over and she lets out a soft sobbing sound.

The groom makes his first line, which is a lovely sentiment.

The blue-haired woman smiles.

The green-eyed guest does some other thing, making a noise and clearing her throat.

The orange-speckled man glances at the green-eyed guest.

The groom makes his next line.

The bride beams happily at the groom.

The green-eyed guest says, in guest-accented common, "oh doesn't she look beautiful"

Green eyed guest tosses out a 3-line emote, which she had lined up in a text file along with another two dozen to make sure she didn't have to spend too much time typing things out for this shindig. This 3-line emote is designed to draw attention to the angle of one leg crossing over the other, and exposing the tips of her f-me shoes.

Wizard asks the bridge to make her vows.

Before the purple-haired man can object (since he's the ex-boyfriend of the bride and he was going to object cause he still loves her), green-eyed guest tosses out 2 more 3-line emotes, the first of which is about how her polka-dotted silvery spidersilk hankie is now getting tear-stained, and the second is how she is adjusting her own gown.

The bridge finally spits out a couple of lines of her vow recital. While she's waiting the obligatory 3 second delay so people can read it before going on to the next...

The green-eyed guest spits out nother 3-line emote. This time, it's about how her shimmering emerald orbs glisten in the dim candle-lit wedding chapel's atmosphere, setting off the brightly beaded decoletage of her silvery spidersilk cocktail dress.

A couple of people start glancing at the green-eye guest.
A few people start whispering to each other, nudging their chins in the direction of the green-eyed guest.

The player of the bride and groom and wizard are starting to get annoyed, because there's nothing this green-eyed guest is doing, ICly, that's disruptive. However, everything she's doing, is OOCly disruptive, because the game relies on text, and she is ensuring that her text is seen more prominently than anyone else's text, thus drawing the OOC attention to her, instead of the scene.

Game over - player of green-eyed guest wins this round.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Maybe this is a dumb suggestion - but perhaps don't invite her to the wedding next time?

Its an RP mud -- if someone is causing issues -- then create a reason to get rid of them. Someone should make something up to get rid of them. Perhaps it draws more attention to them initially -- but then they can be removed from the room and you can continue with how you'd like.

Honestly sounds a lot more interesting and entertaining to me than sitting and just watching the wedding take place with expected comments.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Hi Jazuela.

Actually, I think I hit the point right on the head. It is probably because I've been the green eyed person in a very similar scenario before. I've also been on the other side as well (groom/priest/speaker..)

First, I think it is fantastic if you can get 26 people to come to an event and be spectators while four other people roleplay. I personally would be bored to tears, but I'm a confessed RP Action junkie (short and fast poses as opposed to long, detailed and slower pace) I'd like to think if someone told me I was bothering a scene I would change my behavior for that event. In the wedding example, I'd probably go AFK and do something else.

I also would never ask someone to come to a ceremony in game and not want them to participate. I'd actually encourage the behavior you seem to dislike so much.

What I love about RP games is the randomness that other players introduce to the game. Sure, sometimes I find it annoying, but not to the point where I would ever try to curtail it.

What you are describing is what I consider a normal part of the game.

Now, if you said that the green eyed guest ran in and screamed she had just been attacked and tried to draw half the guest away to chase down the imaginary attacker, I would agree 100% that you had an RP hog. (I've played with this type of person too. Every day was a new crisis, and I did have a knight who had to leave an event to respond to exactly this time of activity). And I think I have to agree with Threshold about this time of activity. Either you ICly disrupt the wedding or you OOCly ask the players to pretend it didn't happen.

Again, in my situation, I dealt with it ICly. I followed the person who screamed she was attacked. When we didn't find anyone I began to have doubts about her mental state, which I shared with an Inquisitor whose solution to all problems involved a stake, a pile of kindling and a torch. Sadly, her next character was pretty much the same way :)


What I think is important is the game clearly defines what it expects from roleplaying. Is there a pose order? How long must you wait before you can pose again? Is there a minimum pose length? Are you expected to pose to every character you pass? In that way players who don't fit your model might be able to self police themselves and find a game where they would be more welcome.

As a player I think your OOC action is limited to a suggestion, followed by a complaint to an admin to really handle it. If a player tries to change another players RP behavior, it probably won't end well. It probably won't end when an admin does it either, but at least its the admin's job.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I wanted to clarify that Threshold didn't actually say the above. It was just my attempt (perhaps poorly) of agreeing that if you can't deal with it ICly you may have to do it OOC.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Actually I'd have to agree with Somblance here. On NWA we have events with 50 players or more attend. Hence the need for special coding at these events to control attention hogs. Displaying some roleplay during events can add to the stage in that on a rp enforced game everyone is an actor and should participate in some small manner.

However, I think when speaking of an attention hog, we're talking about someone trying to "spotlight" the entire time, drawing attention to themselves which is quite different.

As for quick poses in large group scenarious, I think you must play on NWA, Somblance, as that is what happens since you never have time to lay out paragraph poses.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

The term "pose" is pretty MUSH specific. I don't play MUSHES. Again - again - and again - and really I shouldn't need to explain further, but you're really itching to get me to micromanage the post...

This isn't about only four people roleplaying and 46 others watching. It's about a scene, in which three characters *are* the main characters, and the others are people who are there to participate.

When ONE person who is there to participate, drowns out not only everyone else, but the three main characters, by hogging the scene and detracting from the whole reason that scene exists, then that person is an attention-hog, from an OOC perspective. When that person has their 3-line emotes (not poses - those can go on for 20-line paragraphs) set up and just waiting to copy and paste to buffer to prove how much better of a roleplayer they are...

and they do it in such a way that is SO distracting, that other people might START to type something, but then THAT shows up and they backspace to respond to THAT..and then that OTHER thing shows up so they have to backspace to respond to THAT..

Because the green-eyed chick's player has no interest in seeing anyone else's roleplay, she only wants everyone to notice hers..which - they can't help but do, because she's taking up the whole screen scroll..

then she is an attention hog. And it is an OOC attention hogging going on, not an IC attention hog going on.

When I played Gemstone this kind of thing used to happen all the time. People would wear their silvery spidersilk cloaks with green trim and fur collar, and point at their cloaks, touch their cloaks, smile at their cloaks, and do all kinds of other things involving their cloaks, JUST to make sure that everyone knew they were wearing a silvery spidersilk cloak with green trim and fur collar - and to heck with anyone who wanted to pay attention to the -actual- scene going on.

Used to happen all the time. Granted, that isn't even remotely an RPI, and it's really not much more than a glorified pay-to-play hack-n-slash with RP allowed. But that kind of thing happens on other games, and some places use the OOC methods to stop it before it becomes disruptive. And sometimes the staff has to intervene.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I don't play mushes either - just somewhere in the past I started using pose when I meant any one of several methods of roleplaying (room echos, emotes, emote through npc, say, whispers....) without wanting to specify a specific method.

Your description of an player being an RP hog seems pretty detailed. I don't think I misunderstand. It is simply a matter of not agreeing. I'm not even trying to say what you are describing is wrong. It seems appropriate for the type of game that you prefer to play. It wouldn't be for the type of game I prefer to play.

I think that happens a lot in intense RP environments. Players have an expectation of what they consider appropriate and players with similar expectations tend to get along well while those who behave outside of the norm can be a distraction.

That may be why people who RP on muds have a hard time adapting to mushes and vice versa.

It appears that if I played on your game, I would be the distraction until I adapted to the local game style or went away. If your game clearly defined what the expectations were, then that transition is likely to move along faster than if I had to figure it out on my own. And when I was annoying, you would have a set of guidelines that you could point me to.

Now, I am assuming that the problem player really wants to fit it and may not be aware of their own behavior. If that isn't true, and the player doesn't want to fit in, and is intentionally trying to be disruptive just for the sake of being disruptive, then as an admin, I wouldn't try to treat that as an RP issue. I'd treat it as a hostile OOC act and deal with it at a different level.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

Yes that's it exactly. Well almost exactly, but you're seeing my point (and agreeing with it, I get that!).

There's "player really wants to fit in and isn't aware of their own behavior"
There's "player is intentionally trying to be disruptive just for the sake of being disruptive"

and...

Theres "player is intentionally trying to be disruptive because until that moment, the scene was about someone else, and they feel the attention should be on them. And they do this every time there's a scene that's about someone else."

That last one - that's the one I'm talking about.

The first one, is easily fixed with a quick polite, helpful, gentle OOC from either players or the staff.

The second is readily resolved by players reporting complaints to the staff, who then tell the offending party to cease and desist.

The third - that's the one that's hard to resolve, because ICly, *technically* nothing is going on that requires IC resolution. OOCly, the player isn't breaking any specific rules, but they are breaking the -spirit- of the rules, which is - no, this isn't a turn-based mush, it's just a normal roleplay environment. However, please give other people a chance to roleplay, and don't demand that the game must always be about you and your character. It's OKAY to be just a participant on the sidelines, you don't always have to be the star.

Re: Dealing with RP Attention Hogs
 

I'd just like to reiterate a portion of my last comment, because the problem with an RP-hog isn't a conscious desire to take over the scene and dominate all of the attention. RP-hogs believe, with 100% certainty, that they are doing the right and correct thing and are improving the game by contributing to an rp scene. They're not consciously trying to steal the show or post 50 things they think are awesome before anybody has a chance to react. They just honestly don't see the point in sitting quietly with their character while other people roleplay. They're there to participate, add to the scene, and believe people should be thankful for their contribution. I'm not saying they're not selfish, narcisistic hogs in reality, just that in their minds, it's not about "bringing the focus back to me," it's about "I'm here to rp, not idle while other people rp. Time to add something awesome."

You could almost talk sense into most RP hogs if, instead of asking, "Could you demonstrate some basic OOC courtesy by shutting up since this event isn't about you?" you asked, "Could you slow the pace of your poses down to maybe one every 2 minutes for this event? Due to the large number of people here, we want to make sure other people have a chance to react to everything and follow everything that's going on without getting buried by text."