I saw a thread for something similar from back in May of 02, but I wanted to open up a new one to cover more areas.

The IMP's on my MUD have been debating this discussion back and forth for a while now and we never seem to come to an agreement. We're trying to figure out the best way to implement a death system, where people can still have fun for a length of time.

They want to do the permadeath system, and I don't. I've never played one so I've never honestly seen one in the works. But to me it seems almost futile to build up a character or an environment, to have it killed so easily.

On the other hand, one of us suggested creating a system where some of their points, etc, were carried over to their new character. (Strictly roleplaying related points, not character stats).

For those who have created a permadeath system, what is the advantage in having one? How do you deal with people who are upset about losing their long time character? Do they get to carry over anything to a new character? Is there any chance of resurrection? How often do people experience permadeath? Does anyone suggest a better death system?

I may not have such a hard time with permadeath if there was a slight chance for resurrection as well.

I read in the previous thread, that someone implemented a way to reward the player of a well known character who had just died, by giving their new character a little something extra. Does anyone ever complain about favoritism? What types of things are you willing to give the new character?

Any ideas/discussion is greatly appreciated.

I think I need to emphasize the "meaningful death" benifit that Valg pointed out above: Realism of environment brings realism of RP. It's my primary reason for playing permadeath MUDs. Some place where you can run to the healer and get your kid or a fallen soldier revived simply isn't going to fear death the way we do. It's silly. If you don't have permadeath, the realistic way of RPing a death is in fact not RPing it: carrying on as if it were a normal occurance, because it is. Personally I don't think non-permadeath MUDs very interesting. I try not to play them: the one non-permadeath mud I play was the first mud I played. It's like my home, and it's also pretty well made.

For those who have created a permadeath system, what is the advantage in having one?

I'm not a MUD coder or builder, but one of the two MUDs I'm currently playing regularly has a "death means death" system.  On , when your character dies, they die.  No resurrection, no ifs buts or maybes.  And if the man-sized scorpions, irate templars or blazing noon-day sun don't get you, ol' Father Time certainly will.  Your character ages and eventually keels over from decreptitude.

And I love it.  To the extent that I find it difficult to go back to less "rigorous" systems.  

(The other MUD I currently play has a typical half-arsed sort of perma-death, whereby you can permakill a PC, but only at significant cost to your own character.  Following most deaths, a character can be resurrected, but with a hit to stats and skills.  I believe its lack of true permadeath to be a weakness of the game, purely my subjective opinion, but it certainly has sufficient strengths to keep me addicted.)



It is difficult to take death seriously if all it entails is the minor annoyance of the loss of a few xp.   It is much easier to RP the terror of a character fleeing for his or her life when you know that if they fail to escape, that'll be the last you see of them; their terror is your terror.  The adrenaline rush is indescribable.

Also, I enjoy a challenge, I appreciate being provided with goals to pursue.  A major challenge to any new Armageddon character is trying to figure out how to stay alive, a major goal, finding their next glass of water.  It can be terrifically satisfying to finally keep a character alive for more than a few hours.

People do get very attached to their characters, but because of the limited life-span, I think on Armageddon they get less hung up on creating an "uber-character", and experiment more with different roles.   There's no point in spending endless hours maxing out skills because you will lose them, one way or another.  You might as well get out there and live your character's life, because, as Valg puts it, "the clock is ticking".


Maia the masochist

Are there any statted equipment that would require at least attacking if not killing a mob for? How does a permadeath system work if some objects that are 'desired' require mobkilling? Do you just not have special equipment? Are the mobs really low level? Or is the equipment easily accesible by other means?

Which brings me to my next question, really. If people -do- want to get up their skills, how do they advance them on a permadeath MUD? I know several MUD's require mobkilling in order to 'level.' On ours we'll probably have ways of training your skills, but not through 'hunting,' (I've always hated that anyway).

Out death system hasn't been coded yet, but this is our plan:

- Permanent death (our MUD try to aim for realism)
- Chance of not loosing it all, you may recreate a completly new character with half (might be less, not final yet) the amount of experience the dead chracter had.

This leads to death being a terrible thing, explainable both in RP and realism terms, but still gives some chance of getting back into the game without starting from zero.

Problems might include, highly powerful players killing the competition, which won't be allowed without RP reason. Players creating a character which is a copy/resembles a lot of their former character, well it have to be controlled. On the other hand, deaths won't occur frequently.