Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Okay I tried this before and it has not gone well at all. I have been playing a MUD for a couple of months now and I keep logging into it only because I have nothing else to do. So here we go with a possibly less inclusive list of what I want.

While I do want an RP MUD I now have some stipulations about those RP MUDs, after again, playing this place and realizing some things.

*No application. This means if I have to apply to get a character in the world, or after that character I need to apply to get into a guild, I want nothing to do with your MUD.

*No guilds. I want CLASSES, and a decent selection. I do not want those classes to be guilds, similar to IRE. I want to play a mage as a mage without ass kissing forty other people. I do not find it fun. I take directions from enough people in my real life without them in my virtual one. If I want that, I'll RP a soldier.

*No tasks for classes. I get maybe you write a report and that's fun for some players. I'm in college, if I want to write a paper I have an English class for that, and the paper won't be on aspects of magic that apply to unicorns and gryphons.

*Casual Environment. If I want to play for 10 minutes then log out, I want to be able to play for 10 minutes then log the hell out. Not that hard of a concept.

*No helpfile that dictates people can't tell me about areas and quests in them. I know you want to maintain the fun of your game, but guess what, this player doesn't find stumbling into places blindly fun, he finds it idiotic and tedious. Also, I know you want to "respect the creators of the area" but if you think that in your roleplay world, letting someone stumble into quicksand for the sake of your builders pride is acceptable, you're an idiot and please go play hack and slash. My character wants to know things. Deal with it.

*Levelling possible via more than grinding. I was options. I want to level via crafting, or level via roleplay. I don't want to be forced to go hunting monsters for crappy exp and needing extortionate amounts of it, and gold to level.

*Crafting system. Crafting is good, but please don't have the entire game controlled by player character crafters. If I'm trying to buy something at 3am and I can't find anyone because you think it's so revolutionary to have your entire economy controlled by players, it is frustrating and makes me not want to play.

*Multiple money making ways. No just killing monsters, no panning for gold, catching seafood. Combination of all three for example, and have them accessed easily and not be a time sink.

*HELPFUL PLAYERS. It seems to me that MUDs seem to hold people who want to be, to put it pc, less than friendly. The internet as we all know inspires us to be dicks and act as we usually wouldn't infront of others. This is human nature, no face, no consequence. If this is your player base, I want no part of it.

*HELPFUL PLAYERS. I repeat this because I want HELP when I ask for HELP. I do not want to be told to ask IC, or anything else. What I want is to be told how in the hell to work the item, area, class, skill, whatever it is. Direct me to a helpfile for christ sakes, or give me a straight answer if I am having trouble reading the file.

*Free creation and deletion. If I want to create a new character, or delete one, I want to delete a damn character, not have to write a letter of why I'm deleting. I just want to delete.

*Good selection of races. Elaborated in next post, but honestly, more than 6 is good.

*Honesty. Don't tell me you have 6 unique races when I've seen them on ten thousand different MUDs. A winged humanoid on one MUD who can't fly called a Kestrel and a winged humanoid on another MUD who can fly and is called a Hawkese is still the same damn race. Unless you have a race that is part octopus and part boston terrier then guess what, your races are the same as everywhere else. Also, you do not have six unique weapon classes, swords, axes, and whatever else that other MUDs also have, is not unique. Describe the WAYS they are unique, but if they're not originally your thought, don't claim uniqueness.

*In depth RP. I want the politics, the religions, the player run government, and all that good stuff that comes with an RP MUD, I just also want the freedom to play what the hell I want to play (within reason), and not interact with anyone I don't want to.

I guess I will see what people post and reply to them and add features, since I can't think of anything else to add right now. I just want a fun MUD to play that has great RP, is semi casual, and is fun. While fun is subjective, I now know what I do not want in a MUD to make it fun for me.

Thank you for your time.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

"Unless you have a race that is part octopus and part boston terrier then guess what, your races are the same as everywhere else."

I totally know what kind of race I'm going to add to my game if I ever have one.



Honestly, I don't think you're going to find too many MUDs that has x, y, and z but not a, b, and c, and still have a playerbase that's worth playing with.

If you're looking for a "RP" game that you can just get in and get out, maybe you might find something from one of the Skotos games. Ironclaw, or one of their other adventure-typed games (I think there's one called Grendal's Revenge) might be more up your alley. They have other more "serious RP" games, too, that don't have applications and such. One's the Eternal City, and the other might be called Marrack's Castle (don't quote me on that).

If you're looking for "intrigue and politics", then I honestly don't think you're going to find such a thing in the same games that are all about leveling and classes. Sorry. It's not that those games are bad or anything, it's just that those games tend to be more achievement-based, and you're not going to get a GOOD experience trying to play politics in that environment.

You can look into Accursed Lands -- they have no application process and you are given a lot of freedom. They do not have classes OR guilds (you learn any skill that you decide to use). They also have a low player population. You can make money doing just about anything -- be it through killing, whittling, weaving, tailoring, smithing, panning gold, foraging, whatever, and the economy of the game is not strong so there is no real NEED for money to enjoy it and make the most of it. That said, raising skills does require a lot of heavy grinding.

You can look up a game called "Lament", which is similar to Accursed Lands but has less stringent policies and more stuff that works. That said, I don't know if they are open. (You are welcome to play there, of course.)

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

You might want to come check out Ansalon MUD, I believe that we fulfill most of your wishes. We currently do not have crafting but that is on the list of things to come shortly. Other than that I think we hit on your other points nicely.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

[quote=Erisine;46563Marrack's Castle (don't quote me on that).

[/quote]


Its called Castle Marrach, a game that is largely achevement based, and my opinions are well known here on it.

And I've herd from a friend who decided to go back for a visit.

She called it 'pathetic', and her blood pressure skyrockets whenever speaking about it. And that's been happening alot lately. Another former player refred to their Facebook page as 'stupid'--you can go and judge what you will, that's all I'll say about it.

Grendal's Revenge would easly be considered Casual, as you can play for as long as you want and return to it whenever.

Ironclaw is a light, friendly place where its easy to get started in. Groups are always on the look out for people, its playerbase has been growing at a slow but steady clip, and the Staff is always tweaking things in the Game to make it better. One such is how language is handled, not as in how there are so many different types but in overall speaking--any 'modern' jargon gets translated into its medieval version.

Caught me by surprise. And I've forwarded the ideal as a means of dealing with any 'vulgarities' uttered in the game I'm currently helping to build, as our leader expressed concern over thier usage in the Game.

So, give it a try.




Darren Brimhall

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I'm having trouble imagining what sort of "RP" can be accomplished in ten minutes. However, given that you're basically saying that you want everyone to provide you with what you want while you do whatever the hell you want, I can imagine that ten minutes is about all it would take.

MUDding is a cooperative hobby. If you're not finding what you want, then maybe part of it is what you're bringing to the game.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Pretty sure you can go have a drink in a tavern for about ten minutes, or go kill some monsters, or walk around a new area. Train some skills, read some helpfiles on new material, read the in game paper, sell some goods. I could go in but then I'd just be being a smartass and that's not what I'm aiming for.

Also yes, it could be me but since I've had no other problems at other games where I don't have to change my entire character to fit in with one guild member who's a higher up, I'm guessing it's not. Though again, could be.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Unless it is a temporary issue, it looks like Accursed Lands is down.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Hm, perhaps try ? I honestly haven't played there in years, so can't really say what the game environment is like currently. But it has a skill-based leveling system and always had great rp. There's a variety of magic-using classes as well.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

torilmud.org

we have guilds but theyre voluntary, classes have guild masters for training but thats it, and you need not do all your training there, learn new skills yes
some of the newer quests yield exp but it is a lot of grinding
i posted a thread about it here
come check us out

im mostly on as anroawan

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

In this case, it would be Grendel's Revenge--all yoiu'd be doing is wander around a landscape fighint either humans or other monsters..

Darren Brimhall

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I almost posted something snarky because of how negative the OP was, and how instead of just posting what he was looking for he trashed people for liking or creating anything else.

But then I saw this line in your post and I think you summed it up pretty well.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I tend to agree. I expect to have my game ready for an actual open (not just the soft testing open we're on atm) within 2 or 3 months, and while every aspect of the game would likely fit OP's criteria, the post itself sounds as if he's been burned, is bitter, and unwilling to try new things. Now, I myself am quite bitter, but I give things a chance when I'm looking for some social time. Sometimes, I find new aspects of games that I like, but had not considered before. And, of course, when I couldn't find a game that suited me, I embarked on the insane undertaking of developing something myself.

I've seen a lot of exceedingly demanding LFM posts on the various boards lately, and have been very tempted to make my own satirical version to post. After all, why shouldn't someone else spend years developing and designing a game to suit ME, then pay me to play it, or pay me for the perks that I want? Why can't I just make my own set of awesome characters, and demand that all other characters within a game meet my own approval before being allowed to play?

*headdesk*
*facepalm*
*headdesk*

/for what it's worth, I will -never- introduce a race that's a cross between an octopus and a boston terrier...

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

There's this mud I played a long time ago, back in college, called Dark and Shattered Lands. () I haven't played in ages, so I can't tell you much about the state of the mud, how populated it is, or any new and exciting features developed over the past ten years, but it's still there and seems to meet most of your preferences. Just keep in mind that some of what I'm stating below may have changed somewhat.

It calls itself a roleplay-required mud, but it's pretty casual about the whole thing. Some people don't really roleplay or only make a token attempt, others get really into it. But you can pretty much ignore the people you don't want to interact with and have a good time with the people you do.

There's no application process. Back when I played, they had this single approval room when you create where an imm will buzz you in after making sure your character name isn't totally stupid, but if nobody was around to approve you, you got auto-approved in two minutes.

It's a straight-up, Diku character class system. You pick one of five base classes to start, mage being among them, and once you're past a certain level, you have the option to reclass into a specialty class. Some are available to everybody, some restricted to certain clans (PK-based groups) or kingdoms (non-PK based groups), and those organizations might have some rules about who they do and don't let access their special classes. But you don't have to kiss too much ass to get into any of those organizations. Most people with any rank are recruiters, and with rare exception, most organizations let in anybody who doesn't come across as an idiot. But other than the small number of classes restriced to certain organizations (which aren't any more powerful or fun, just something else to try), you just pick your class and your specialty class by entering commands. No tasks.

There aren't any rules about area knowledge or secrets. You'll find player websites with maps, speedwalking directions, good leveling tips, equipment lists, and whatever. The world is pretty large, so there's always somewhere good to level, or some piece of gear to chase down.

I remember the players being fairly helpful. You know the type. When you ask a question, everybody races to answer as quickly as they can, because knowing something and demonstrating that knowledge over the internet makes you cool. Unlike the muds you've undoubtedly tried, though, you'll get people jumping up and down trying to give you the answer, rather than people jumping up and down yelling at you about how you're an idiot and a rulebreaker for asking the question.

You delete and create characters at will. Other than prohibiting being logged in with more than one character at a time, and other multiplaying prohibitions like finding ways to help one character with antoher, you can have as many characters as you want in as many organizations as you want, and delete them whenever you feel like it.

It's a Dragonlance-based mud, so there are a lot of races, mostly in the form of subraces. Your 5 types of elves, 3 types of dwarves, 2 types of gnomes, 3 types of ogres, 3 types of goblins, humans, minotaur, kender, 2 types of some kind of cat race, and probably a couple of other races I've long since forgotten. I wouldn't call the race selection unique, but it's definitely pretty diverse. The stats of each race are different enough to make certain classes and playing styles a lot better suited for one race versus another.

The politics and governments are mostly player controlled. Whoever's the leader of their organization chooses who to declare war against, when to try to end wars, and what the organization is supposed to be doing, within the reasonable limits of the backstory of their organization and why it exists. But it's not the sort of mud where you can up and change things yourself with big world events. That requires the imms to run, and if you're expecting the administration to step in and facilitate player rp on a daily basis, look elsewhere. Special events are rare. On the plus side, there are regular recurring events, though, like an annual clan tournament, a gladiator league, and some other things.

There's a player crafting system, but it's time consuming, tedious, and repetetive to get any good at crafting, and the items you can get from mobs are normally just as good. If you just want a unique-looking item, you can buy an item restring fairly cheaply if you catch an imm online and available to help you.

It's also definitely a casual environment. Log in, log out, get as involved as you want or not.

Downsides: It's a grind-heavy mud. You have to kill stuff to level. But not an insane amount of stuff. It traditional Diku style, you select what skills and spells you want your character to have, and you're assigned an experience per level amount based on how much you select. So if you're in a hurry and don't care about being versatile, you can have a 1000/level character. Or you can take everything available to you, even the stuff you'll never use or need, and be 100,000/level. For reference, in the right area for your level and alignment, most people get about 100-200 per kill, though there are times where it's faster to kill a bunch of weak stuff for 50 each, or a couple of strong things for more and have some down time in between.

You also have to put up with the occasional group of idiots who run their mouthes on public channels, can't roleplay worth a darn (or don't roleplay), kids, and so on. It's not terrible. Like I said, you can just ignore people you don't want to interact with, but I remember enough of that going on to feel it's relevant to comment on here.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

What I'm interested in is what makes him feel burned.

was it because:
He got screwed over by players, with the help of friends on Staff, who lied and cheated him out of something his Character worked hard for?

He submitted numerious ideals, after doing the research, that would work perfictly in the Game--only to have them rejected, or worse, stolen?

He filed a complant only to get scolded by the Game's Staff?

There's more, but these are an example of what could make a player 'quit' a Game they had so much hope for.


Darren Brimhall

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

The original post was pretty clear. OP was displeased with one or more muds he tried that had an application-based creation process, required permission to delete and recreate, and had a cumbersome and tedious in-game process (ass-kissing and report writing) to gain a character class and advance, all so he could finally jump into the active part of a game that was primarily about grinding for money and grinding to gain levels.

Not one of his factors said he wants more fair or more responsive administration, or a game where his own ideas would be implemented. If anything, it sounds like the games he was involved with have a little too much administration. I've always felt that if you add up all the time mud administrators waste approving players and sparingly granting permission to do this or that, you'd find enough time to code all kinds of new features, make all kinds of new areas, or initiate all kinds of special roleplaying has been wasted.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Ever tried Avendar?

Avendar.com

It's been under new management for the last year or two, and we've had a lot of great updates and changes.

strictly rp-enforced

engaging pk system, with some limits (lvl ranges)

government is based on a very deep history, some players can have an affect
also based on houses, and their internal governments.
Those are entirely player influenced, especially as houses compete

if you want magic, lots of choices with scholars, templars, druids, etc
if you don't, warriors and rogues are there too
the classes are very deep, so while the skill sets are standard, there is no vanilla.

character roles are encouraged to have variety, though there are certain restrictions (chtaren must be good, shuddeni must be evil)
huge deity list to base roles off of

permadeath does happen, though very rare- either by age death or dying too many times (only age died once, never reached the second option in 10 years)

*No application. Just make a character.

*Lots of classes

*No reports

*Casual Environment, though you'll end up playing longer than 10 minutes

*Crafting system. Rangers can craft their own items, whereas there are npc controlled shops that you can craft items.

*Free creation and deletion. Don't want them? Delete them

*Good selection of races- Quite a list of races. Take a look (the depth comes in history, backgrounds, etc. Website gives you a good run down)

*In depth RP. I want the politics, the religions, the player run government, and all that good stuff that comes with an RP MUD, I just also want the freedom to play what the hell I want to play (within reason), and not interact with anyone I don't want to.


Bottom line- take a look, because Avendar is very unique- races, classes, history,... it even has it's own calendar system.

AVENDAR.COM

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

ewbie]alkane]:
If you want to roleplay, this is an exceptional place to do that, as you wil
l find that the world is immersive, the story arcs are well thought out and planned, and the immortal st
aff is exceptional at interacting with characters as both mobiles, gods, and on a personal level with ne
w players that need help and advice.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

So, in other words; too many chiefs, not enough indians and a neglectied infastructure full of red-tape and flameing hoops to leap through...With no end in sight.

Darren Brimhall

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Why do play for 10 minutes and in depth roleplay have to go together? Obviously you can't have 10 minute play time and in-depth roleplay.

What you can have is a game that has in depth roleplay but at the same time allows you to logon and check in game mail or something else for 10 minutes if that is all you have time to do, and not have you forced into a guild scene that takes 3 hours and has you getting in trouble next time you login because you had to log out and go somewhere.

I'm not bitter, I'm not enraged, I fully understand that in a lot of MUDs the immortals have their fingers in something on a player level, least that is from my experience, I just hoped that one would not. Turns out it was just stupidity to think I had found a great MUD that was completely immortal grubby finger free.

I was by no means saying every character in the game should mold to my character, what I WAS saying was that my character should not be forced to mold into someone elses play style, then when I don't, I get stopped playing the game by one of the commands until I mold to how that player wants me.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I think if you're looking for an RP-enforced MUD, you're simply going to have to deal with higher powers getting involved in player consistency. In a non-RP game, admin really only need to define the system level things like areas, objects, monsters, game mechanics etc. to get a consistent world. In an RP game, where the players largely -are- the content of the world, you as a player have to expect that your story is subject to change just like a mob. I'm sure there are ways to set up RP systems where this is more or less of an issue, but the fact of the matter is that if you expect to have a consistent world/environment, someone has to ensure consistency of the input players have into it.

I've personally opted for the extreme opposite end of this approach. Alter Aeon has one (1) active admin: Me. The game has a lot of idiot-proofing to stop most of the common kinds of griefing and problems, spammers are dealt with via a combination of code and a handful of high level channel moderators, and anything that's left over I personally deal with. Pretty much the only time I require players to change behavior or description is when it's purely offensive, illegal, or intended only to grief others.

The downside of this is that enforced RP isn't really possible, because there's no enforcer. I dislike forcing people to act a specific way other than to set the rules of the environment around them. That said, RP does happen in various groups, and when it does, it's often pretty good.

-dentin

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

If you want to play on New Worlds there is no way in hell you will get into a guild with 10 minute spurts of login time. There is a way around this though, become a rogue, I did! Rogues have no guild structure or leadership and can do what they want. You can run around pretty much on your own. Nw is a very serious roleplay place, though, if you can't handle that (which your comments show you can't) you're best off in a happy go lucky hack and slash environment. I'm one of those players that can't stand whiners like you who want us all to baby you through your baby steps of play. If you want to play in the big league you have to grow up. Its why I'm so glad you must be 18 to play on that game. I like to roleplay with men not boys.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I think the OP was simply saying that they can't always play for long periods and sometimes come on for 10 minute play times.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Thing is Cirion, all those other people who are already playing, at the moment you log in, are already playing. They're already involved in whatever they're involved in. And if your character is known, they might need your character for something. For all you know, they might have been holding up events in the hopes that they would run into your character. And there you are!

But OOOPS sorry everyone, you're there, but you can't interact, so just uhhhh pretend your character isn't there. Even though he is. Because it is inconvenient for you, to be logged into a multi-player interactive game, and actually play the game, as one of multiple players, interactively with each other, for the next ten minutes.

In summary: if you don't have time to RP, then don't log into an RP game. If you do log into an RP game, and there are other PCs around, then don't be surprised, or irritated, if some of them attempt to involve you in the current plotline. That is WHY the game exists.

You might be better off with a first-person shooter, if you find interacting with other players while you're logged into an RP game, to be inconvenient.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Usually by giving a heads up to the rest of the playerbase on the game fourms, (hey, I'm sorry, but RL has me in a royal bind and I can't play as often as I want to. so---), will cover things nicely.

You can be surprised by the number of players that don't, but not surprised by the aggravation that comes as a result.


Darren Brimhall

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

This stick-up-butt-ness is a real problem for some muds. I don't care how RP-focused a game is supposed to be. Every single mud, like it or not, is a computer game first and a totally immersive fictional world second. If someone is afk, idle, distracted by the real world, or his or her time is limited, it is our place, as courteous human beings, to show common courtsey to our fellow computer game players and work with or around those factors, especially if someone took the time to let us know their situation ahead of time. Why the heck would we even consider telling someone who shares our hobby and our interests, and loves the same game we do, "What do you mean you can only stay on for 30 minutes? Why'd you even bother logging in to such a serious game then?"

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I typically play MUDs for irregular hours. 10 minutes here, 4 hours there and everything in between. I never have much trouble regarding RP. Everyone I interact with are understanding that not everyone can be available all the time.

Unless I know I have a dedicated amount of time to get involved with a current plot line; I just try to avoid putting myself in that situation. It still happens occasionally but like I said, everyone is pretty understanding.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

You sir, get a cookie.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I hope it is one of those gnome cookies from Domplin. Maybe the fire cookie or watermelon flavored!

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Agreed.

I've experienced this first hand when Unemployment cut into my play time, and in trying to convince the 'other players' that a player I was helping had problems concentrating due to ADHD.

They didn't care either way, it was all just 'Role Playing' to them. And you can guess how that ended.

Darren Brimhall

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

It's all well and good to call it "stick up the buttness" but when the OP comes here and specifies, in a bullet point,
Then he is already declaring, in advance, that HE expects people to adhere to the intensity of an in-depth mud, as long as they don't expect HIM to do the same.

If you want politics, religions, player run governments, then you're also wanting conflict. These things come with conflict. And if you refuse to interact with your character's enemy, solely on the basis that you "don't want to," then you ruin it for that character's player, who probably has taken time out of HIS 10 minutes per day, helping to contribute to the game world by becoming your enemy in the first place.

You want roleplay? Then roleplay. You want to avoid RPing with people you don't "want" to RP with? Then don't expect that people will be lining up at the doors to RP with you.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I don't follow this at all. All the OP is asking for is the same permissions we have in real life.

I have a role I play in real life. I generally don't have to interact with people I don't like unless they have something I want. I can sit in my cave all damn day if I feel the urge and the world will go on without me. There may be consequences to that decision, but my participation is hardly required for time to advance.

I don't really see how the OP's request in a MUD is any different.

-dentin

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

It depends upon how the MUD is structured.

If its more Social-Based, then OP needs to get out and about as social interaction is nessicary in more ways than one. But be warry of players who take Socializing a bit too far, as they tend to start power-tripping with Staff Conections--which forces away those who aren't their friends, as I know full well.

If its a Combat-Based, then he can stay in his cave until his Beer and Munchies supply runs low (or the Cable Sports Channel bill needs to be payed), go out and beat/rob as many people as possible before returning back to his cave with fresh supplies and payed bills. In this Game, the Player initiates the action and gets rewarded for it with very little need to socialize.


Darren Brimhall

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

It's a very tough balance to find. (If anybody finds it, tell me the mud right away!)

A serious roleplaying mud, where players affect things and can get ahead through all kinds of interaction and socializing, but a casual mud where you don't have to be online all day doing this to really be involved, important, and advance.

My biggest problems have been finding decent rp muds, but being a real world person with a real world life and not having the time to play 12 hours a day. So I'm never around for all the big deal special events, and my characters never become important or influential. I just level up in silence, have some mundane chatty rp with a few people I come across, and never amount to anything. All of the influential roles are always eaten up by the people who are online all day long.

I used to be okay just being a regular joe who's around on some weekends, or maybe at odd hours during the week, who dropped in for some casual rp and gaming, but more and more, the better known rp muds have started unconsciously treating these casual players like second-class citizens. Not intentional or overt exclusion, just little things, like not sticking around to rp with that guy you only see once a week because you know it won't really go anywhere and you want to find one of those guys who's online for 12 hours a day like you are to go do something. People don't want to just rp and have fun any more. They want to work hard to build characters that get somewhere and maximize their gains while online. Seriously, get a job! You can get paid for working that hard. I've relegated myself to just playing casual muds with a limited rp scene and making my own rp with interested players that happen along.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I feel you SnowTroll. I often find myself in the same position. I like the RP environment that many MUDs have to offer (in character conversation, well described game world, rational players, rules enforced, and combat that makes sense). But i dislike how in many games that translates into a lot of stuff like multiple written essays, multiple approval processes that could take several real life days or weeks and other time real life commitments that don't translate to "fun" or even add to the immersion. For a person that works hard and is logging in to chill and forget about life for a while and instead be a powerful magician in a fictitious land, it's less of a IC barrier to entry and more like a ooc locked iron door draining the desire to play from anyone that works full time. There are only so many hours in the day.

However, I don't log in with the desire to be important. I just want to play a role that is fitting for my personality. That goes for every RP mud I play in.

It's a tough balance. Many of the non-RP MUDs I just can't get into. My brain just gives up when someone walks up to me saying "wassup dud, this mob is tuff" when I am about to face down a dragon.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Snowtroll and Exohuman my comments here are mostly for you or players that think in this way.

The question is: How come I can't play in a enforced serious roleplay game but have it casual too so I don't have to be around alot to advance or be important?

The answer is similar to a question I was asked once. While attending a concert with an exceptional pianist the person sitting next to me said, "I would give my life to be able to play like him." I answered quietly, "He did."

What I'm saying is that you can't be a professional race car driver and win the race by driving casually a little bit every so often. To be good and indepth and important you have to devote some time to it. That doesn't mean you can't race for fun or drive periodically on the race track and have a good time. Just don't expect to win and don't expect the other racers to suddenly know you and want to interact or listen to your expertise on racing.

Most games (at least New Worlds Ateraan), gives you the opportunity to play casually. There are options to not have to specifically join a guild that requires lots of roleplay. You can drop in and out for a few minutes or an hour every so often, but just like the race car driver, you can't expect to be majorly important in the environment with brief arrivals.

As to the matter of guild joinings and roleplay required to join guilds. After 10 years of administration in serious roleplay gaming, it has been obvious that to have such requirements has bred a better environment for the players that enjoy serious roleplay gaming. It is similar to the movie matinee and the late night (kid's not allowed) movie ticket: You can watch a movie with quiet, respectful persons, or you can watch a movie with popcorn flying, crying, noisy, obnoxious, and distracting persons. You really can't have both.

I hope these comments (while not perfect) help to explain why rp enforced games operate the way they do.:)

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Yeah, I understand and see your point about the guild recruitment being onerous to filter out non-RP players. However, don't you see the irony in the comparison to a master piano player or NASCAR driver? Those are two people who will not be playing a mud that required them to write multiple essays on fiction, interview 7 people and write essays on that, and then go through another interview process just to get the class they want to play in a Mud. Good RP is fine! It's great! It's fun! It's entertaining but an online game should not be requiring the effort a cheap school course might. No offense to New Worlds (it's a great game) but the non-guilded option suffers from being a single class that may not fit the personality of the gamer.

I'm not disagreeing (I agree too that good RP requires a time commitment to the scene), but just pointing out the oddness of it all. I've RP'd for over 13 years now in various games (sometimes creating an RP community in games that had none) and many of them were not MUDs. I used to enjoy the improv-like atmosphere of table top games and even managed to have RP that was meaningful and fun in some of the big graphical mmos. Those were fun times.

However, I would like to kindly say that the requirements I stated in the first paragraph above are not only un-RP, But they lack fun too. Why not send the player on a coded quest that forces him to demonstrate the ideals of the guild to join? Why not have him join the other guild members on a romp through a dungeon specifically created for recruits to learn the ways of the guild? Or have an instance where recruits must learn the skills one by one and get quizzed on the ways of the guild? Initiation rites and rituals existed everywhere all over the world, why not dance around a fire and call the spirits of the ancestors and have those judge his spirit?

Again, people do what they find fun (or endure something less fun in hopes of future fun) but I would kindly like to suggest to any receptive mud implementor with a desire for RP gaming that FUN should be the focus and to keep in mind that other, more important things are going on in the players lives. The player that doesn't like your game will play another one, but seriously, do you want to turn away good players because you bored them or asked things of them that would get them laughed out of a family BBQ for doing without getting paid?

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

What makes New Worlds the mud it is is the players. You've cultivated a reasonably-sized group of people that are all dedicated to maintaining a game where roleplaying is enforced and is important. It's not the administration, the coding, the building, the setting and backstory, or the rules that make New Worlds what it is. New Worlds is a succesful roleplaying mud because of the players.

Somewhere out there, there might be a mud, kind of like New Worlds in that the players are all dedicated to roleplaying, but where the players are also dedicated to fun first and foremost, and to maintaining a casual playing environment. Where roleplaying is about fun rather than about getting somewhere in the game, and where everyone who logs in, new or old, habitual or casual player, is a potential source of roleplaying and entertainment rather than someone you shouldn't bother with because you're wasting time you could be getting somewhere.

I think it's totally possible to be a "serious roleplaying mud" without going the route where you have to be a "serious player" who plays all day long to fit in. I just haven't found that mud yet. Maybe it doesn't exist.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

It is not possible for the reasons I stated before. If you have one, you will drive off the other. If you have the other you will drive off the one. You are asking for a ski resort in the desert. While possible, the snow will melt within a few days.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Not all guilds are the same. All require a variety of tasks that are different and unique depending on the guild.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I think you're looking for something along the lines of my mud philosophy. Not yet fully playable, but I'm just putting those concepts out there.

Link:

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

I think it's definitely possible to have a serious roleplaying mud where you don't have to be logged in all day. Obviously the more time you spend on the game, the more you will be able to interact with people and get involved, but that doesn't mean you can't have serious rp in the times where you are logged on. I've come across new characters on the game I play and they instantly have something interesting to add and to play off of (crazy starving tshaharks, furry wild elves...). It make take awhile to get to know a game and to see what interesting ideas would work, but you don't have to be playing all day for some fun rp to develop. It does depend upon the mud, I'm sure. And what one player considers "serious rp" may not be the same as what another player considers it. But I wouldn't say it's not possible.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

very nice ideas melopene, i'd love to see the mud when its 'done' well to an exctent where it is playable

newworlds: there is a ski slope somewhere in a desert, i think it egypt somewhere, completely inside.

and to be honest i don't spend more than about 3/4 hours online, sometimes less than one, and the guilds on newworlds play how you play them

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Melopene: I absolutely love your game creation philosophy. Your takes on motivation and roleplay mirror mine exactly. As I said in the Community Survey thread, if the goal in building a game isn't to make something fun for players, what's the point? Like you, I believe that the events and histories of virtual worlds should be player driven and that great roleplay does not require blocks of flowery prose. I really look forward to checking out Anaea when it's ready to roll.

Where I think a bit differently than you do is the idea of player designed and created content. Listening and genuinely considering ideas and suggestions is one thing, and maybe you have solutions for this, but I can't imagine dealing with players as they design new guilds or classes or whatever. In my experience, players want what's good for them, and they aren't very happy if they don't get it, especially when someone else does. The "F" word (favoritism) gets thrown around way too much as it is. I think allowing players to build and code sounds like a good idea, but that quality control could become a massive issue. If I have to review and edit a bunch of other peoples' work I'd rather just do it myself.

And maybe I'm reading some of your ideas completely wrong. In that case, ignore me. I'm intrigued by the possibility that Anaea presents. How long have you been in production? When do you see the beta period beginning?

Just my $.02.

-Will

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

The ski slope you are thinking of is in Dubai.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

The philosophy isn't too awful, if you trust your players to focus on the bigger picture. Making a set of skills or whatever that makes sense and goes together, versus trying to make something 1337 that makes the game easy for them.

There was this tiny, new mud I tried out for a little while called Inferno RPG. It was something of a MUSH-MUD hybrid, with some MOO aspects thrown in. Every single object and room was player-designed. Players were simply expected to dress their own characters, have items that fit the role they were playing, and make locations that were reasonable places to have rp encounters. Players who wanted to could make themselves a quasi-imm charcter and run rp plots, all player done. As long as you have some level of oversight and don't give players carte blanche to decide how much damage the new skill they're giving themselves does, I think you can trust most rp-focused players to design content with good intentions.

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

i thought maybe it was dubai, but then thought again,. still a desert though

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

That's a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG if.

I'd argue that if your game is growing, it's impossible to know who has the big picture in mind and who doesn't. Shall we survey incoming new players to find out? :D

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Will-

In terms of managing player wants versus a balanced game, I think it just takes a firm hand and the ability to say 'I said no to this idea, and that's that'. I take that position on a number of things that are definitively off-limits. There are, after all, boundaries. And the F-word is always going to be thrown around, but I do pride myself on being fairly objective (after all, I'm in academia and have to be able to make value-neutral analyses).

Quality control - yes, that's an issue, and that's why I've got an absolutely awesome woman in charge of all things building, plus me as a backup reviewer. I don't mind reading and editing work as needed, because when you work with a builder and show them how they can improve, they become a better builder for it.

I've been working on it off and on since 2005ish, when my ex convinced me to help fix some crash bugs on this game he was playing. I ended up inheriting the code and stripped out a lot of 'features' that I despised, added a few of my own, etc etc.

I'm expecting to have the code, and hopefully enough wilderness area, to have the game playable through all the levels by sometime in September, unless something severely hijacks my time. You're welcome to provide some input on those same forums anytime.

Note - not really trying to use that as an advertising opportunity, but I'd be silly not to ask for his ideas :)

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

THis was my part of my problem at Marrach, for the most part I devoted my time there to providing a service with my characters which wasn't a great deal of time becuase of unemployment and limited employtment taking up most of my time. And RL concerns pretty much forbade me from sitting at a computer for 12 hours or more trying to rebuild my characters after their fall...

Then again, they there wanted me to play in a manner they wanted. So I told them to go to hell in my own way and haven't been back since.

And to those who spend 12 hours or more at a computer playing games, I gotta ask, are you so wealthy you can afford to do that--or living on Unemployment in a Shelter? Is your real-world life so awful you spend all but a few hours of it per day glued to a machine trying to escape from it? I can see if you manage or program from a Computer, but anything else--come on.

I mean honestly, get a life!

Darren Brimhall

Re: Let's try this again...RP MUD
 

Some people are kids, who game constantly because their parents use the computer as a babysitter/nanny instead of engaging them in face-to-face interpersonal activities.

Some people are physically disabled and -cannot- work, and all their able-bodied buddies are busy working all day, and so they need something to do, and use the computer to do it.

Some people are so significantly physically disabled, that the computer -is- their lifeline to reality (such as someone with ALS, who cannot walk, talk, move, breathe, eat, expel waste, without a machine to do it for them, however their ability to think is just as sharp as it always was).

Some people play while they're doing other computer-related things, such as work, or school, and they just happen to be fairly good at multi-tasking.

Add those four types together, and you would probably come up with a pretty hefty portion of people who fit into the category of "people who spend 12 hours or more playing computer games."