I'm gonna start out with three downers: I've been playing for about ten years, and over that time, have become fairly particular about what I like and dislike. Down point two: I've been searching for about two years and have yet to find what I'm looking for. Down point three: I administrate for a game that I absolutely love already (Chiaroscuro), but know too well to play, if that makes any sense.

That being said, here are my requests in a game:
1. Equipment saving.
2. Secrets of some sort to discover, whether it be learning the intricacies of systems, or discovering/figuring out how to create new and exciting items.
3. Alternate (and equally viable) ways of earning a living/getting xp/advancing that don't involve killing everything you meet.
4. Something that caters to exploration-types.
4a. A crafting system.
4b. An herbalism/gathering type skill for the gathering of plants or other mundane stuff.
4c. This skill actually has some usefulness.
5. A big enough playerbase to allow for rp.
6. Enough of a non-cliqued segment to allow for roleplay with newbies.
7. A halfway-believable and well thought-out storyline/theme.
8. Creative and balanced races.

This list moves from most important to least important. If you don't have the first three, don't bother commenting. I have already been to several of the games out there who fit the first few criteria, especially SoI and Armageddon, and have found them both lacking, so this is going to be a little difficult.

Shadows of Isildur, definitively.

No, he said that he thought SoI was lacking, but it definitely seems to match to me.

SoI has a lot going for it, but unfortunately, the predetermined plot system and the utterly beautiful herbal collection system that has absolutely no usefulness whatsoever (hence the creation of point 4c) do nothing but annoy the crap out of me.

1. Harshlands, SoI, and Arm feature this.

2. Harshlands, SoI, and Arm feature this.

3. Harshlands, SoI, and Arm feature the "living" (getting xp is absent, thankfully, in all three). Advancing is a matter of perspective. Advance as in you eventually become king? No. Advancing as in your character grows, gets better at skills, and forms relationships within the community. Yes.

4. Harshlands is huge. Arm, I've yet to explore adequately to comment sufficiently. SoI is extremely small in comparison.

4a. Harshlands, SoI, and Arm feature this.

4b. Harshlands, SoI, and Arm feature this, though SoI lacks herbalism.

4c. Harshlands definitely does. I believe Arm does too.

5. Arm's got the largest pbase of the three. SoI comes in second. Harshlands has the smallest of the three. Each has a big enough pbase for RP since RP at the least requires only oneself and can easily be achieved without dozens of people around you. That said, if you're in the right spot (wandering in the wilderness isn't likely to create lots of encounters), you will meet others.

6. All three are welcoming to new players since they don't know you're a new player, only perhaps a new character (or at least, that is, one that they haven't met before).

7. Halfway-believable is sort of difficult when you consider that they're all fantasy. However, in terms of political, economic, and social aspects, I'd give the edge to Harshlands, with Arm in a close second. Now, in terms of believability of the setting, Harshlands blows Arm out of the water as does SoI. A well thought-out storyline/theme? Well, storyline and theme are really two different things since there can be many storylines happening simultaneously while the theme is constant. Harshlands has the best theme by far. SoI is Tolkien-based so it's got flaws. Arm's even worse. Storyline-wise, Harshlands and Arm feature multiple small-scale storylines while SoI has the same with an encompassing storyline that guides the game toward LOTR centuries later.

8. In all cases, the races are similar and probably familiar to most fans of fantasy. Harshlands features fewer races than the others, but there is documentation on these races' exact nature and how they differ from similar races (ie, how Sindarin differ from Tolkien's elves) in other formats available through Columbia Games' Harn material. Each features races that are unique to their game, though I can't guarantee that's what you mean when you say "creative and balanced".

Since you've tried SoI and Arm and didn't find them to your liking, I suggest you try Harshlands. However, just to ensure your experience with the other two wasn't a fluke, you might give them another chance as well just to be certain.

Take care,

Jason

Oh, I certainly don't plan to. That's why I ranked them based on what I'd most like.

Accursed Lands offers everything you desire, with the possible exception of number 6 on your list.

If you want to jump right in and roleplay, you'll initially have some problems since the more established players secret themselves away where they can't be found by newbies. However, it will take you time to explore the game and learn enough about the theme to roleplay your character believably. If you stick around long enough to learn, and show a willingness to roleplay, you'll be welcomed by any of the more experienced players.

Accursed Lands' theme can best be described as light gothic horror set in a low-fantasy, post-apocalyptic world with a level of technology akin to northern Europe's tenth century. AL is roleplay-enforced with a strict OOC/IC barrier, and though AL suffers from its share of new people who don't want to roleplay, most of the long-term players are decent RPers. The world is large, and it takes time to explore and move about. Player characters are located all over the world, and there is no central meeting place where you'll be sure to encounter another player. Game mechanics are realistic and the learning curve is high, but if you're the type who enjoys exploring you'll never run out of things to learn about the game. Accursed Lands is a MUD for experienced MUDders and RPers; some new players accuse the admins and player community of being brusque and intolerant, but others seem to fit right in. Read the reviews and if they pique your interest, come and try AL out.

There is some use for herbalism in conjunction with healing, though, yes, herbalism (in regards to more magic resembling aspects) has yet to be fully developed(I believe it is being worked on right now). There is still some use for herbalism in regards to stuff like cooking, brewing herbal teas, etc. and there are 35 different herbalism crafts, but I'm guessing that's not the type of use you're looking for. Also, SoI takes place about 500 years before LOTR so not much is written about this time period by Tolkien and it is hardly predetermined. The admin have also said that the storyline may end up being altered by the actions of players so that for example, Mordor ends up destroying Minas Tirith way before LOTR takes place or such like that. Maybe the dark side might even win?

I'm obviously biased, but I would say check out Lusternia, honestly I don't know too much about tthe other games(have heard alot of good things about SoL though), so I'll just go down your list about the one I play/work for.

1. There are muds that don't?
2. That's one of the core parts of the IRE combat system, Lusternia also is known for huge quests.
3. Gold: Everyone starts with a tradeskill to learn, also the above mentioned quests. XP: Again quests, also we have Influencing which is a non-violent way to "bash" . As for other advancement, You have politics that are player driven, and the possibility(none have done it yet, and probably won't for a while) to become a fully IC(non-admin) God.
4. Explorer rankings work for you? As well as constantly adding new area's, and the multi-planar set up.
4a. Depends, again everyone gets a free trade skill. If you mean crafts as in you get to design your own, then forging, tailoring, cooking and jewelry all offer that.
4b. Herbalism and Alchemy.
4c. Need herbs for alchemy and every basher/fighter needs them for curing.
5. I normally see 80-100+ on, keep in mind we've been up for just under a year, so we're still fairly new.
6. You're part of the roleplay the second you join, we have one little newbie area(ok, it's not little, I got lost there more than once) but even that has big quests in it for those that like that part. You're basicly thrown into the RP as soon as you finish the intro.
7. I love the strory line, but that's just me.
8. We have a few of your common ones(Elfen, Dwarf for example) as well as unique ones like Viscanti, or Lucidian. After much player feedback, we just went through and balanced them all about a month ago.

Again, I'm probably more than biased so... I've heard some good things about others aswell, just depends on what you're looking for. Good luck with your search, hope you find the right one.

I'm completely biased too, I guess. But Lusternia does meet all of those specifications.

Except that tradeskills are usually useless for gaining money if the character using them isnt skilled enough in the tradeskill. To be skilled enough, you either a) devote your whole char to that one skill. b) buy da perks c) spend a good portion of your real life ratting for gold to buy credits for lessons for the skill. Because by the time youre done with learning your main skills, there isnt enough neocredits to make use of your trade skill.

But you cant deny it, you get addicted to Lusternia's quality. The parts you can successfully make use of at the time, that is.

That is true, but with everything you have your rare exceptions. Richter is probably the biggest merchant right now, but I think the best example was Val. I think he netted somewhere are 3k credits off his tradeskill, starting out with a few "deals" of offering services in return for the credits to beable to give the services. But that's how real life is, noone starts with the cash, they find the guys who have it and cut a deal.

Edit: The whole post...

If youre into exploring then Abandoned Realms has more than a few things that reward that.

For example you can request tasks from shops (type task), the shop will then send you off to get an item for it. Bring it back and they'll pay you some money. Basically means every item in the game could be worth something. Keeps some people busy all day making money, since its rather hard to script =p.

(The real kicker with tasks is that the shop tells you what area to look in, so it helps you find the way to the goodies).

Then you can turn all that money into items by buying random-made items from the shops. Since you explored you would have found some very useful base items like .. belts that function as boats.. well I dont want to give away too much. Different shops have different biases in the attributes they sell, so mages might go to one shop, fighters quite the opposite.

To help you explore in general we got map/minimap commands, the map command gives you the overview (as if you zoomed out 10,000 miles) whereas the minimap generates a local ascii map.

The lore command isnt bad either, that'll give you the name of the area an object came from, as well as showing you any intersting words you're supposed to look at. Along with the typical mini-ID youve probably seen before.

Then theres our quests.. amongst others we have quests like 'collect the ten relics' which take forever to find. And our three top tier areas only open once every 40 hours, for 2 hours, the exploring group wet dream.. there's a unique item to recover from each area that all combine to unlock the grand-daddy of all mobs, but there's no way you could possibly do all 3 areas in 2 hrs.

If that dont keep you feretting for info forever, then try figuring out where all the rare items come from. Sinc eonly a limited amount of these can be on the server at any given time, it can be hard to find them on other people, let alone the monsters they're born on.

Though you might just spend a month hometown-exploring before you get on with any of that. Oh I should warn you though. The MUD has pk, so if you try exploring on it, better pack some recalls and find some good hiding places.

abandonedrealms.com 9000

I would ask what your opinions are on spending gold in order to gain a class before I'd tell you about IRE games. That was one of my major issues with their games was that you had to spend your in-game gold in order to, not just advance, but to even get all three of the skills that come with a given class in a guild. That's pretty much all I can think of right now. Again, I don't know what you're opinions on that are, but just a fair warning. I got my hopes up in Achaea when I saw all the neat classes on the class list but as soon as I joined a guild I read all the fine print and found out I had to raise money to even become a full guild member, and that's why I don't like it.

I am, admittedly, biased. But, I would strongly recommend an IRE MUD, specifically in this case, Imperian, as it seems to meet all the above requirements and has a very strong emphasis on RP, but avoids the traditional good v. evil that is quite common these days.

With a little luck, I hope to see you in there.

Regards,
Janus

Have you looked at ?

You obviously haven't tried Lusternia then. You auto-gain class after 24 hours of play time. Also, we don't have 3 guildskills but closer to 6(or more) with the skill choice system. The way it works, there is a primary skill for each "archtype" some of those have branches(Knighthood, after a certain point, allows you to pick Bonecrusher or Blademaster). Then a manditory secondary skill, such as illusions for mages, and then a choice of 3 different skills for your last slot. Guardian types(simular to planar priests) can choose tarot, hexes, or astrology for example. This is unique to Lusternia(compared to other IRE games), allows much more freedom in your character, and with auto-class no more stupid guild reqs that take RL years to complete.

But yeah, I know what you mean about Achaea, and Aetolia as I played both of those before and those guild reqs can be a pain.

Wik, I think you'd like Age of Reptiles. A lot of your requirements don't fit it, as it's quite odd compared to other MUDs/MUSHes, but here's a rundown.

1. There is no equipment. The few objects you can have are saved, though.
2. There are a lot of secrets. Nothing too important, but some very interesting things can be discovered if you're perceptive enough. Secret rooms, special objects, ect.
3. Although to get stronger you have to kill things, it makes perfect sense within the game's context. You play as a dinosaur, after all. Levels are easy to gain, though, and you can max out in two days with little effort. To get truly strong you have to roleplay.
4. There are quite a few areas to explore, with well-written descriptions and area affects that really add to the atmosphere. While wading through the eastern swamps, for example, you might pick up a few annoying leeches.
4a. None.
4b. You can gather a handful of plants in some areas by foraging , and they have beneficial properties.
4c. Yup.
5. Usually 5-10 players online. The world is quite small, though, so it's easy to find a few other people to RP with.
6. Roleplaying between newbies and veterans is pretty much seamless. Newbies can expect to be showed around by older pack members, introduced to the rest of the pack, taken hunting, ect.
7. Ayup.
8. There's only one race, and it's based off of a real animal.

There's a ton more info on AoR to be found in the various other topics and reviews about it.

That's not the case in Achaea anymore, actually. Guilds are on their way out and players no longer have control over whether you gain and can keep a class or not, except in the case of a couple classes that are inherently aligned (Paladins, Apostates, etc) where you're just prohibited from helping the 'other side' while a member of that class.

--matt