[Enzo]

People always tend to have different pet peeves about RP. But then again, I've also noticed that there are sections of things which people tend not to like. Really long stories, people who take forever to write a long, but pointless message, etc. I want to figure out how I could improve my RP to make everybody like it more, and feel more respected when talking about my IC abilities.

[Dionae]

The only real pet-peeve I have is people who write extremely lengthy emotes to describe rather simple things. I don't mind long emotes every once in a while, but when you're constantly waiting for the other person to type something, it messes up the flow of the roleplay.

I don't mind long stories, as long as they're interesting, and well-written. And I have to have a nice quiet, spam-free room to read them in too. :)

I suppose another thing that bothers me is people who consider roleplay a competition, and who must always "win" in every situation, or who do rather ooc things just because they don't want something bad to happen to their ic character.

[OnyxFlame]

I don't like really long drawn out emotes either, or people who do nothing but flirt around. (This isn't a problem on the mud I play, but it was rampant on one RP site I used to hang out on.) I like people who say what they're doing concisely and don't stick all that flowery crap in just to try to impress someone. And if they have no knowledge of spelling/grammar...well I don't hang out with em much.

I also like people to have finely defined lines between IC and OOC. If you forget to use the ooc command once, no big deal. If you make it a habit or mix everything together, I avoid you. And some people think they have to explain everything their char does using ooc stuff. Well I got news for em...if they're playing their char right, people know why they do what they do, unless they're purposely being secretive, in which case they shouldn't blabber on about it ooc anyway.

Oh yeah here's another thing. I like people who at least *try* to come up with a little history for their char. Like why they came to wherever you start out in the mud, who their family members are, which ones are alive, why they're not on stage so to speak.

Ok, if I had anything else to say I forgot what it was. That's what mudding while posting these things does for you.

Six lovely lovely things in rp:

***** Consistency, consistency, consistency. I love consistency  roleplayed characters, even if my character despises theirs, is sickened by the sight of them, shudders at the thought of them. And consistency is something that can be hard for a lot of folks. I think consistency is the hardest when you play against who you are personally or when the world atmosphere you are in doesn’t match something you can play easily. And the “flitting” that a lot of folks do tends to mix with serious roleplay, making for very inconsistent characters. And to me, consistency extends to when other folks are not around. I love characters who have “routines”. Things that they do each day regardless if there is someone watching at just that moment, just like most of us IRL do. And it is great when you can as a character, check the time of day, and go, “Oh, So and so is likely working in her garden. I should stop by and have some strawberries.” or “Goodness, so and so’s shop just opened I bet. Lets go get some such and such!”

***** Second  thing I love in rp are mistakes. Real, rped mistakes. When players make the choice to have their character make a mistake, be it large or small. And then follow through with the rp of it. Characters are not infallible, but I think we all make the mistake of having our characters boofs really just be the players boofs. I love when someone sees what would be the smartest path and then sees their character has no reason to see that path and has the character bumble off in the wrong direction.

***** Third thing I adore are detailed, written out backgrounds. There is nothing like a player who knows their character well enough to mention some old friend or relative from pre-game time and then not refer to the same person again for months. And when they refer to that person again, it is the same sort of person. I love that.

***** I adore folks whose characters exist when they aren’t logged on. By this I mean, when the person logs on, they weren’t just sleeping or “out and busy”. They can chat about that interesting talk they had with the priest at the shrine, or mumble a bit about getting lost on the road to the trading village again and shouldn’t those signs be fixed. Or even just say they felt like they were getting short tempered lately and went to spend some time alone and isn’t camping in the lalala forest just lovely?

***** And finally, using mobs/bots as important folks. Why should only other PCs be valuable members of our character’s lives? I love when characters can chit chat about so and so, when so and so is not a PC, but a made up character who fits into a particular area or guild, or a shopkeeper who exists but is a bot/mob. It makes sense for our characters to have relationships others don’t have, know folks others don’t know as well. And for goodness sake, if you have a house/manor/keep/shop, make your guards/servants/etc. real! Give them names, backgrounds, smile and tell them hello as you hurry by, apologize for their rudeness or explain why they tend to be quiet.

Stories, well told and fitting the world are great, but depends on the character. Long emotes have a place and time. Custom, repeated emotes for a specific character give a sense of consistency. Those are nice. Good names without  “sword” or “cloud” in them. Subtle humor. Characters who don’t giggle. Quiet characters who say the most profound/unexpected/perfect things at that moment when everyone else is dead silent. RP is a lovely thing when done well and I applaud everyone who has gotten good at the art of it.

Sapphar

-Tyler, deliver me from Swedish furniture and clever advertising.-


Six ugly ugly things in "role-play"....

1) Names...

Deathmaster@1Cust85.tnt1.city.ga.da.uu.net new player.

Who the HECK names their kid Deathmaster?  C'mon folks, when thinking of playing a role - put a little thought behind it.  If you want a nickname, then introduce yourself by the nickname.

2) Lack of Continuity

Often players will declare their character being "cold as steel" or as "quiet as his mother's grave", yet in actual role-play scenarios they so become boisterous and clambor for their role-play to 'stand out' that they totally lose sight of their 'character'.  Personally, I always find it amusing when I award the quiet, amost idle seeming, Warder in the background more experience in a role-play session than the overly helpful and flirting "grave" assassin.  Of course, if playing an overly quiet type in an rp scenario, its always beneficial to send some OOC tells to the Storyteller adding insight to the character's thoughts/emotions at the time just to show you're NOT idling :)

3) Lack of Historical Comprehension
When choosing the history of your character - pick a background you CAN role-play.  Role-playing doesn't mean "if I were this, this is how I would do it", it means choosing a character that (generally) is _not_ you and trying to perceive how they would react to situations given their background and history. If all the drow from Underdark (or wherever) were Driz'zt and rebelling against the dark goddess, it would defeat the concept of Driz'zt.  I hate Driz'zt (sp?) concepts to begin with.  If all vampires felt bad about drinking human blood and drank pig's blood, it would defeat the concept of what a vampire was.  If all Shienarans acted like horny 15 year old boys, I doubt the Blight would be held back for very long or women would be held in the regard they are.

Understand WHAT you're getting yourself into and don't weasel out of it because that is not how you want to play it.  Its fine to be a little different to add character to your character - but at least give SOME semblance of understanding your own past.

4) The Superman

"Sure my character has already reached the level of Blademaster at age 14 (not Borderland age, mind you) and he is betrothed to Queen of Altara's daughter, but that doesn't mean he can't play a wolfbrother on the edge... oh, and can I have claws pop out of my wrists?"

There are 24 hours in a day.  Believe me, trying to entertain my gf, work FT, school FT, and Admin a MUD - I can account for every single ONE of those 24 hours in a day (even the hidden hour between 4 and 4:01).  By _my_ calculations  it would be seemingly impossible to put an intensive 8 hours a day to sword training, gathering ore and components for your spells and research, writing your own Master Mage level spells (which I would equate to writing really long code...in binary... on acid), all the while woo'ing the great elven princess Daphne.  Granted, I am not under a haste spell which would double my actions per round and aging process.  And they didn't even have COFFEE or Mountain Dew back then.

If you find the many aspects of a fantasy genre appealing - go for it!  Role-play them all.  But do it over the course of a FEW characters, not one.  Aside from Bruce Wayne, no man can do it _ALL_.  
Okay, and Seth Green too, but thats different.
And KaVir.
...

Personally, I just enjoy popping in a mob every once in awhile to play a background barmaid or streetsweeper to add a little mundane flavor to people's lives.  Let them live the adventures to impress we "smaller" people.

5) Opportunists

"Yeah, it is really upsetting to me that the Children of the Light admin is going on leave and the guild is being closed because of it.  Hey!  Does that mean my character can have a change of heart and apply for the Tower Guard, they have a cool guild skill!"

I hate when a guild is closed for a time and everyone jumps ship to strategically place their characters elsewhere during the interim.  It is so forcing role-play.  If you want to put a character in a different guild MAKE AN ALT.  Let your favored Illianer Companion sit on the back-burners for a bit until the Companions re-open - don't go off and try to join Aiel.  You just look dumb.

6) Justifying PK

"MwuHAA!  I slaughtered half the mobs in the White Tower just to role-play with you, young Novice!  Now, swear the Oathes or die!"

And then they get bent out of shape when I trans them to a holding cell with a little message saying they finally get subdued by the Guard.

In a role-play MUD, player-kill intent peeps need to realize that the MUD is there for world - not the other way around.  There is safety, there are safe-havens - you cannot just go around slaughtering everyone everywhere for any reason.  Much like REAL LIFE there are consequences to the actions you bring about yourself.  If you announce you are going on an IC shooting spree in the local police station, you shouldn't expect the immortal staff NOT to jump in some mobs and do their best to "take you out" with extreme prejudice.

"Sure, I'm sorry for forcing RP on you and _god_forbid_ common sense, but if you didn't take the first pot shot at continuity and realism maybe I would'nt've gotten upset."

- I want you to hit me as hard as you can. -

RTC.

[Editted to disable emoticons]

[AnnOnimous]

First a round of applause for the two previous posts.

And now for something completely different... or maybe not.

An undisclosed amount of annoying things about rp.

-says'n'socials... oh, alright, using say every now and then... i can live with that, but socials?! for rp purpouses?! When that's ALL you're using to show what you're doing?! NOOOOOOOO!!! That's what emotes are for!

-oneliners... Ok, so you can't spit out a two line emote or say something witty ALL the time, but if you can't do more than smile and say that you agree and the other person is spitting out three, four, even five line emotes without taking forever, (which kinda hints on the next one of these) it's a bit unbalanced.

-can'ttypers... Everyone makes typos from time to time, and not everyone can type more than 20 words per minute, but if you're one of those poor sots who can't type more than five words a minute... there's plenty of typing software out there where you can learn to type and learn to bring your speed up, because if it takes more than a minute to type two lines, there's something wrong, and more so if it's got 10 typos in it.

-linecutters... Remember in elementary school when you had to stand in line for things, and you got in trouble for cutting in the line? TAKE YOUR TURN! Fit all you can think of into your emote, let the other people who are rping with you take their turn, THEN REACT TO WHAT THEY DID! Wow, novel concept, this taking your turn idea... why didn't they teach this in kindergarten?

Anyway, there's my pet peeves when it comes to rp, i know there's more, but those are the main ones. As for what I like to see in rp...

I like seeing anything done well, street rat, noble, what have you, but I'm not going to infringe on Sapphar's post, which expresses most if not all of the things that I enjoy seeing.

[Jazuela]

Regarding AnnOnimous's post:

People talk. People have conversations. Conversing is the primary form of communication between people. Therefore, "says" should be the primary form of communication, so I'm not sure why you don't think it should be used more than once in awhile. Not everyone says things all the time, or even most of the time, in any particular manner. Most of the time in discussions, people just say what they say. Not laughingly, not teasingly, not wryly..they just say it. Period.

Also - during important events (such as the death of the city's ruler, or a visit from the deity of the alignment, an invasion of nasty pirates, etc), no one wants to sit there waiting for someone to belt out a 3-line emote...even if it only takes them 30 seconds to do so. Reason being, is when it's expected, it means that EVERYONE has to belt out a 3 line emote that takes 30 seconds each - you get 20 people all battling the same group of invading enemy, and that pirate is gonna have the whole bunch of ya dead before the third person gets their turn.

In addition, the following just seems, well, unnecessary and forced:

>Jazuela cups her hands under her mug of ale, pondering your words. Slowly, carefully, she lifts her eyes toward you, her lips turning up into a soft smile. "Yes," she says.

as opposed to:

>Jazuela says "Yes."
>Jazuela smiles at you.

Just seem like WAY too much text for a simple "Yes" answer to a question.

I can understand that in certain cases, like maybe a proposal of marriage, the first choice would be preferred. But for ordinary conversation, perhaps someone asking if Jazuela has seen the High Commander recently? Puleeaze. That kinda drama was killed, thankfully, with method acting in the 70's.

Originally Posted by (Jazuela @ Aug. 28 2002,08:51 am) People talk. People have conversations. Conversing is the primary form of communication between people. Therefore, "says" should be the primary form of communication, so I'm not sure why you don't think it should be used more than once in awhile. Not everyone says things all the time, or even most of the time, in any particular manner. Most of the time in discussions, people just say what they say. Not laughingly, not teasingly, not wryly..they just say it. Period.

I have to agree with this one. Say is a fine command to use. However, that said, I have played games where say is almost never used. And on those games, where players are accustomed to combing actions and emotes into one, it does come across very nicely.

When asked if you saw the High Commander recently, depending on the game you play, various responses would be equally fitting.

----------------------------------------

Sapphar nods her head a bit and comments, "Yes."

Sapphar nods.
Sapphar says, "Yes."

Sapphar pauses a moment, thinking hard. Looking up, she comments, "Yes," in a slightly uncertain tone.

----------------------------------------

Depending on the speed of the typer, all those comments could take about the same time to spit out. I personally find the first one the most interesting to read. The last one the most informative. The middle one the most blunt and fitting to a very quick line of rp. Each has a place and time.

And in small scenes, long emotes and long says are wonderful. There is nothing like truly seeing what someone looks like when they smile.

----------------------------------------

Sapphar beams at you.

Sapphar glances at you as a hint of a smile crosses her lips, slowly becoming a look of delight, her eyes lighting up and her face filling with excitement.

----------------------------------------

While not worth doing everytime, letting the full expression exist at times is wonderful to see and useful in the future to know what that character is like when she beams at folks. After all, one charactesr slow expression building to excitement when they "beam" at folks could be totally different with another character.

---------------------------------------

Nesia beams.

Nesia's face explodes with an expression of absolute enjoyment, a smile spreading as far across her face as possible and her eyes opening wide with excitement.

----------------------------------------

My character would now know that Sapphar is a touch quieter and slower to find her enjoyment, but capable of finding complete delight in something. And Nesia is quick to be happy, excited about new opportunities to enjoy herself, and shares it with the world in her expressive face. All very useful things to learn about a character, though not during a 4+ character rp session.

I say, error on the side of too short when there are quite a few characters around in a quick paced scene. Error on the side of too detailed when there are only a few characters involved and the characters would notice, pay attention to, and find important the lovely details about those around them.

Sapphar

[Jazuela]

Agreed Saph! There are times when major dramatic moments are essential for RP. There are times when short and to the point are essential. And there are times when a combination of the two, or something inbetween are the most appropriate. But to say that short and sweet is "undesireable" in roleplay just doesn't make any sense.

I am VERY wordy when I write posts, as anyone who reads them can attest. My primary character can also be rather wordy, though at times she considers an arched eyebrow in someone's direction much more effective than anything she could possibly say. My secondary character speaks very plainly, and finds a well-placed grunt and a nod does the job more often than not.

I think there's a place for each of these methods of communicating, but using any of them exclusively gives a character too much of a 2-dimensional feeling for my taste. Sometimes, a grin is just a grin, and means nothing more than what it is - an expression of mild amusement. There's no need to make it more than that, and so >Jazuela grins. is the absolute best and most appropriate thing to do.

To say otherwise, that using "socials" (they're called verbs in the game I play - because that's what they are) should take a back seat to emotes, is devaluing simplicity - which can sometimes be more profound than the longest, most intricately detailed emote in the world.

Originally Posted by (Jazuela @ Aug. 28 2002,09:50 am) Sometimes, a grin is just a grin, and means nothing more than what it is - an expression of mild amusement. There's no need to make it more than that, and so >Jazuela grins. is the absolute best and most appropriate thing to do.

*laugh* Not to be a pest, Jazuela, but I have to disagree on that one.

Jazuela grins.

If I haven't gotten to know Jazuela a bit better, seen her "grin" in more detail, then I can interpret a grin in a wide variety of ways.

Grins are often used as mild enjoyment.  Sometimes they are used as a mocking response.  They can be taken as the "evil" or "dark" version of a smile.  They can be seen as snide.  Given how many nasty character's I've met and my characters have met who prefer to grin and not smile, grins carry all sorts of connotations.  So until I see something like...

Jazuela grins with a expression of playful, if subdued, mirth on her face.

... I'm not going to know in the future what that grin means.  And my character might be affronted by it, depending on the use.

And the same can be said of a lot of socials.  If someone is going to hug my character for the first time, particularly if they are an unlikely hugger, I'd like to know, did they just hug my character with a warm, comfortable embrace?  Did they do one of those hugs where you keep your bodies as far apart as is possible?  Was it more of an arm around the shoulder type hug?  Was it a pat on the back, light little hug?  Did the oversized titan just squeeze the breath out of my character?  

I'm sure you get the point.  Socials are useful, but more useful once you know the character and the player behind the character has shared some of their character's personal traits via more detailed emotes.

Sapphar

[Jazuela]

And sometimes, I don't want anyone to know, for sure, what I mean by something. Sometimes a simple grin will leave people wondering - is she sincerely amused, or is she hiding something? And sometimes - that is totally intentional.

>Jazuela grins and walks away.

I'm going to split the post on this one.

Before I got into mudding, I was considered one of the better role-players of our sunday little circle of geeks. When I got into mudding it was a bit of an adjustment for me because reactions are a bit slow-coming compared to a table-top setting.

To that end, I _really_ disliked role-playing with 4+line emoters. The role-play scenarios took too long, I'd get tired of waiting on them, etc. etc.

A few years down the line, after playing more and more I realized that the folks that truly understood the continuity and flavor behind the world we were playing in were the ones who took their time with their prolonged responses. So I would spend more and more (and _more_) time playing with them and became better adjusted to their style of play.

While I still don't see myself making many 4-line poses, I definitely identify more with the long posers than the short ones. My poses generally hit 2 or 3 lines. Which I find I can generally whip out fairly quick and get my point across.

Of course, PACING definitely has a lot to do with it.

In a moment of high drama, yes I believe short and sweet bursts are the way to go. Waiting on that minute long post when things are hitting the fan can often seem counterproductive to the moment.

If you want to play your character as thoughtful and pensive, I wouldn't have any objection to a long-posing player. I would expect the player might not enjoy role-playing with me if I were playing my impatient rapscallion gleebrat. But thats the way it works in real life, too, so it works fine ;) Thats why kids are always grabbing the pant legs of their parents and tug away going "mom mom mom mom mom". Its all about the attention span of the character ;)

As for socials, I find I am not as vehemently against socials as most the players are where I play. Probably because I have access to write them and I try to write them as practically as possible for role-play scenarios. Heck, I'll even admit to writing some just for specific characters I have. Abuse of power - rock on. Whereas a good emote can be much more flavorful than a social - sometimes you need to stick with short and sweet to keep the pace of the role-play session going.

So, in the end I guess I'd say long/short emotes have their place. The extremes are what makes the types unbearable.

TG_Nek nods.

[Quietude]

Emotes, both long and short, have their places, as do socials to my mind. I dislike "taking turns" roleplaying styles, and prefer to move at a somewhat faster pace; in a game where each player emotes in turn, there may be less need for shorter emotes. There are definitely places where I feel longer emotes are fairly pointless, though. . .some examines:

Susan shrugs.
Susan says, "I think so."

Susan shrugs and says, "I think so."

Susan shrugs and says, pausing hesitantly between the words, "I think so."

Susan shrugs, the movement of her shoulders barely perceptible beneath her heavy armor, and says, "I think so."

Susan lifts her shoulders a moment before allowing them to fall and says, as her motion finishes, "I think so."

The first one gets the point across, but in general I would prefer the second one in a fast-paced, many-character scene because it causes less lines of scroll on my screen. The third elaborates on how the character feels, which is useful -- but it's perfectly possible the character is using a normal tone and there's nothing to comment on. The fourth helps set the scenes and reinforce the setting, but it doesn't add any necessary detail that the character reacting would need to know, so I would consider it more useful in a smaller, more slow-paced scene. The last is something that personally annoys me to no end -- it takes longer to type and longer to read than the second, but says exactly the same thing.

Says I view slightly differently than many of the posters here. I think when posters such as AnnOnimous say they dislike says in most cases, they mean things like:

Susan says, "I think so."

That, indeed, if not accompanied by some sort of emote, may be difficult for other players to interpret properly. But say in one game that I play can be used thus:

Shrugging, her voice slightly hesitant, Susan says in English:
"I think so."

How is that use of say any less useful in roleplaying than an emote? Or, in any game, say could be used like this:

Susan says, "I," and pauses, shrugging faintly. "I think so."

That conveys things very nicely, without the use of the emote command or any socials. Or if you don't want to imbed any actions in your say at all:

Susan says, "I. . .think so. Umm. That is, I'm not sure, but. . ."

Much more communicative than a simple, "I think so."

Summary: As long as it gets the point across, it's all good, if not in all circumstances.

[AnnOnimous]

AnnOnimous blinks a few times in suprise, "All this over my one little post?"

AnnOnimous says: "All this over my one little post?"
AnnOnimous blinks ... innocently? do I see innocently there when I hit 'blink' on my mud? Hmm... What else do we have here... I see socials that while entertaining and fun for sitting around throwing socials at each other with, many of them say how it's done. I can always find a quick facial expression to use in an emote, so that way not only am I not slowing the rp much (if any) I'm not blinking innocently when it's in suprise, etc. I agree, sometimes the short sweet emotes are helpful, but most of the situations my characters find themselves in aren't high action gotta do it quick before I die type things, and I find it much more pleasant to read or type:

Soandso grins, "Sure!"

than:

Soandso says "Sure!"
Soandso grins.

*shrug* to each their own I suppose, but I realize now that I didn't put the thought needed into the short emote thing (I saw the topic and read it and realized that it was time to get ready for work before I finished posting).

If you've got one other person in the room with you and they've been using two and three liners, why pray tell, since there's no fight for life or glory, would you use a social? To me it just looks like there's no real intrest in what's going on and you just want to get it over with. Just me though.

Anyway... carry on... I can now rest knowing that I've been chastised.


(edit is right here)
The short emotes when long emotes are going on in a laid back environment is especially nerve wracking (to me at least) when the person with the short emotes is trying to gain credibility with a person in an intensive RP guild and so (hopefully) join said guild. *shrug* just an example that popped into my head that's happened to me before on a few occasions.

[Enzo]

Originally Posted by (TG_Nek @ Aug. 28 2002,04:44 am) "Sure my character has already reached the level of Blademaster at age 14 (not Borderland age, mind you) and he is betrothed to Queen of Altara's daughter, but that doesn't mean he can't play a wolfbrother on the edge... oh, and can I have claws pop out of my wrists?"

Don't mind me, but go Wheel of Time

[OnyxFlame]

My mud has a 60 character limit on emotes. I know all you guys are gonna say horror horror, but let's face it, do we really NEED to know all this unimportant drivel that people tend to put in when they have free rein? Given half a chance, a lot of RPers will write a novel to say what could've been said equally well in 5 words. If I wanna read a novel, I'll read a novel. Whatever happened to leaving things up to the imagination, anyway?

> Baron Zydel says in common, "Hello there."
Baron Zydel grins.

Is this just a simple greeting with good feeling attatched? Or is Baron Zydel grinning because while you're standing there talking, his forces are off in the distance taking over your castle? Or maybe he's grinning about something entirely different, like maybe he just saw Lady Veilin naked and you walked in and surprised him with drool on his chin. I kind of like never knowing what someone's thinking, unless they choose to say it out loud or show it in some obvious manner. There's a lot of potential for misunderstanding here, which is probably the greatest human failing there is, and leads to all sorts of interesting possibilities gamewise.

Short emotes can be just as effective as long ones, if you pay attention to the context:

> Demiar exclaims in common, "Yay I just got promoted to Archmage!"
Demiar dances with you.

---

> Demiar says in common, "Now that I've got you alone..."
Demiar dances with you.

Short and sweet, but it's obvious we're talking about two entirely different kinds of dancing. And if you want to use emotes, you can always alias them (providing your mud allows that, which the few I've seen do) and not hafta worry about how fast you type. You know, stuff like an ogre trying to count his fingers, a noblewoman adjusting the folds of her dress, all those little mannerisms you can easily do to add color without slowing everything down to the point of mass boredom.

> OnyxFlame wanders off looking for coffee to the south.

*holds up a shield in front of Ann*

Short and sweet does have its place (I'll never deny that), but I'll go to bat saying sometimes I enjoy a more colorful line of individualized rp through e[s][p]motes. Especially with some of the creative people I play with.

Sometimes I think the debate over emote length is as never-ending as rp vs pkrp. *wink*