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Mierza · 01-06-2004, 10:33 PM

I have a few things that I'd like to say here.

First of all, in relation to the side topic between Azeroth and shadowfyr's "permadeath/lifespan" I'd like to link a very interesting article titled by Ernest Adams.

Although the above article is most generally related to 3d games, it points out some very interesting topics to think about. You may need a Gamasutra.com account to read it (I'm not sure) however the account is free, and the resource is worth it.

Now, the next thing I'd like to address is skills in relation to classes. Although I don't want to deviate from the topic onto skills, I think it best to explain the current system that I am personally researching into for my own game. It's something like this, and does support the more "non-class specific" MUD rather than the class specific, but I'll address that later in my post. It's something like this:

******

Basically anyone can learn any skill, aslong as they meet the requirements needed to learn said skill.

For example a chef wanting to make pizza needs:

* The ingredients to make a pizza.
* The utensils to make a pizza.
* To be healthy enough to physically make a pizza.

He can get the basic knowledge of how to make a pizza from watching tv, from eating it from another chef, from being told the recipe, from basically anywhere.

Of course, this doesn't mean he'll be good at it.

The quality of the pizza is affected by the quality of his ingredients, utensils, and his health.

For example, if he uses pizza dough, tomato sauce, cheese, ham, and pineapple.. he's gonna have a ham and pineapple looking pizza.

If he has dirty hands when he starts cooking, he's gonna have an unhygenic ham and pineapple looking pizza.

If he doesn't have a cooking tray to put the pizza on when it goes in the oven, he's gonna have a lop-sided, unhygenic ham and pineapple looking pizza since he didn't have a flat surface.

I'd also love to have the ability for improvisation. Which means that if he has dirty hands, he can put on surgeons gloves which makes the process a little more hygene. If he has some olives, he can add that to the ingredients, which means he now has ham, cheese, pineapple and olive pizza. If he finds something else to use as a cooking tray, then that serves the same job as the cooking tray.

Get me?

Now, skill development.

Lets break down our example a little more and say he needs to know the skill 'make pizza dough' before he can make a pizza. He still needs the knowledge of how to, and he still needs the ingredients, utensils, and health.

Unfortunately, making pizza dough is slightly more complex than just topping a pizza and baking it. He'd need to know that he needs eggs, flour, and whatever else goes into a dough bread. He needs to know that he has to knead it.

Simple skills are earned by knowledge/common sense. Aslong as a player has basic knowledge of how to top a pizza and bake it, they can do it.

However, because someone knows how to do something.. it doesn't mean they know how to do it good. This is another factor that will affect their ability to 'make the dough'. It's just practice. The more they know, the more they're capable of doing. The more they're capable of doing, the better they get.

I don't want 'perfecting' a skill to be something repetitive and tedious, but I don't want everyone to be expert chefs, combatants, architects, and what not straight away.

Learning things requires resources. Resources are gained over time. I don't like the idea to make players wait real hours to get resources, but rather they gain it through role play. This means that skills are learned through players, and not mobs. Anyone can go to a mob and learn everything. But people will have to role-play with each other to learn skills from other players.

***********

In an earlier post, I spoke about using a system similar to the one used in Diablo 2, where there are several classes to choose from, and each class has level and tree-branched structured skills.

My point is, that in real life people choose professions that let them work towards developing high leveled skills that they otherwise couldn't learn. But does this stop them from learning basic skills? No.

Last night whilst working on my own game, I was considering a 'beautician' type profession where a player could work to be a hairdresser. (I've seen this done in MUD's such as Archaea and it's worked pretty well.) However, I thought, in real life it doesn't take a scientist to put your hair into a pony tail.

So... getting back to my point again, why not have a set of 'general' skills that are available to generally everyone to learn. Things like basic cooking, basic sewing, basic combat even. (I mean who can't learn to throw a punch, simply by seeing someone do it).

This way, you leave options open for specialized skills that could be more class specific, ie a combat class could have some martial arts punching. This allows a player who chooses to learn how to punch -properly- to actually do so, and thus limit their chances of hurting themselves more than their opponent. And with the chef profession/class, sure anyone can cook toast, but it takes training to cook something more exotic.

Just food for thought.

01-06-2004, 10:33 PM	#52
Mierza Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hope Valley, Perth, Australia. Posts: 33	I have a few things that I'd like to say here. First of all, in relation to the side topic between Azeroth and shadowfyr's "permadeath/lifespan" I'd like to link a very interesting article titled by Ernest Adams. Although the above article is most generally related to 3d games, it points out some very interesting topics to think about. You may need a Gamasutra.com account to read it (I'm not sure) however the account is free, and the resource is worth it. Now, the next thing I'd like to address is skills in relation to classes. Although I don't want to deviate from the topic onto skills, I think it best to explain the current system that I am personally researching into for my own game. It's something like this, and does support the more "non-class specific" MUD rather than the class specific, but I'll address that later in my post. It's something like this: ****** Basically anyone can learn any skill, aslong as they meet the requirements needed to learn said skill. For example a chef wanting to make pizza needs: * The ingredients to make a pizza. * The utensils to make a pizza. * To be healthy enough to physically make a pizza. He can get the basic knowledge of how to make a pizza from watching tv, from eating it from another chef, from being told the recipe, from basically anywhere. Of course, this doesn't mean he'll be good at it. The quality of the pizza is affected by the quality of his ingredients, utensils, and his health. For example, if he uses pizza dough, tomato sauce, cheese, ham, and pineapple.. he's gonna have a ham and pineapple looking pizza. If he has dirty hands when he starts cooking, he's gonna have an unhygenic ham and pineapple looking pizza. If he doesn't have a cooking tray to put the pizza on when it goes in the oven, he's gonna have a lop-sided, unhygenic ham and pineapple looking pizza since he didn't have a flat surface. I'd also love to have the ability for improvisation. Which means that if he has dirty hands, he can put on surgeons gloves which makes the process a little more hygene. If he has some olives, he can add that to the ingredients, which means he now has ham, cheese, pineapple and olive pizza. If he finds something else to use as a cooking tray, then that serves the same job as the cooking tray. Get me? Now, skill development. Lets break down our example a little more and say he needs to know the skill 'make pizza dough' before he can make a pizza. He still needs the knowledge of how to, and he still needs the ingredients, utensils, and health. Unfortunately, making pizza dough is slightly more complex than just topping a pizza and baking it. He'd need to know that he needs eggs, flour, and whatever else goes into a dough bread. He needs to know that he has to knead it. Simple skills are earned by knowledge/common sense. Aslong as a player has basic knowledge of how to top a pizza and bake it, they can do it. However, because someone knows how to do something.. it doesn't mean they know how to do it good. This is another factor that will affect their ability to 'make the dough'. It's just practice. The more they know, the more they're capable of doing. The more they're capable of doing, the better they get. I don't want 'perfecting' a skill to be something repetitive and tedious, but I don't want everyone to be expert chefs, combatants, architects, and what not straight away. Learning things requires resources. Resources are gained over time. I don't like the idea to make players wait real hours to get resources, but rather they gain it through role play. This means that skills are learned through players, and not mobs. Anyone can go to a mob and learn everything. But people will have to role-play with each other to learn skills from other players. *********** In an earlier post, I spoke about using a system similar to the one used in Diablo 2, where there are several classes to choose from, and each class has level and tree-branched structured skills. My point is, that in real life people choose professions that let them work towards developing high leveled skills that they otherwise couldn't learn. But does this stop them from learning basic skills? No. Last night whilst working on my own game, I was considering a 'beautician' type profession where a player could work to be a hairdresser. (I've seen this done in MUD's such as Archaea and it's worked pretty well.) However, I thought, in real life it doesn't take a scientist to put your hair into a pony tail. So... getting back to my point again, why not have a set of 'general' skills that are available to generally everyone to learn. Things like basic cooking, basic sewing, basic combat even. (I mean who can't learn to throw a punch, simply by seeing someone do it). This way, you leave options open for specialized skills that could be more class specific, ie a combat class could have some martial arts punching. This allows a player who chooses to learn how to punch -properly- to actually do so, and thus limit their chances of hurting themselves more than their opponent. And with the chef profession/class, sure anyone can cook toast, but it takes training to cook something more exotic. Just food for thought.