Top Mud Sites Forum - View Single Post

MikeRozak · 02-13-2009, 03:28 AM

The arrangement is rooms with 360-degree surround image, like Myst I-IV and Zork Nemesis.

I asume PG = pre-generated? The images are rendered on your computer, but then cached away for the next time you wander through the room. I thought about rendering them on the server and downloading them on demand, but the data would be huge.

When I began the project, I thought about doing a standard 3D accelertor game world with WASD and always looking at your character's back, but decided not to because it's a slippery slope as far as authoring difficulty goes. My current graphics implementation is more work than a text MUD, but only slightly.

However, if I went full 3D WASD looking at your character's back, 3D quickly becomes a morass:

- Players can walk everywhere, so the author need to specify where the ground is so they don't fall through. Usually, this specification is trivial (use the ground object's height), but what if there's a cellar that goes below ground. (By the way, once players can walk, need to worry about walking on water, up steep slopes, through lava, etc.) Minor points, but they start adding up...

- Authors have to make sure players can't walk through walls... which is mostly automatic, except for specifying doors that open/close. Are curtains walls?

- What about jumping? Authors have to make sure players can't jump to places they're not allowed.

- And how is climbing ladders handled? (Noticed that most 3D games only have ramps to climb. No stairs. No ladders. Ramps are easier.)

- And shouldn't the grass be blowing in the wind? And the water rippling? And the clouds moving? And flags flapping? And bees buzzing? What if my world doesn't have bees?

- And even with all that, players will find themselves walking around an empty world without objects and NPCS/PCs positioned in the world... (I cheat by showing their images off to the side. I couldn't do that in a 3D WASD world because objects/NPCs/PCs within the 3D is expected.)

- So let players place objects. What about physics modelling when the object is dropped? What if an object is dropped in the water and becomes inaccessible? (What if the author wanted part of the experience in zero-G? Yet another issue.)

- And as far as NPCs... the fact is, that with a shoestring modelling and animation budget, all PCs and NPCs are going to stand erect and wear exactly the same clothing, and hold a sword/axe/bow stiffly in their right hand. (Even with a huge animation budget, PCs/NPCs aren't much better.) I have a rat-humanoid that sulks around the place and sweeps up. (Is a broom a two handed weapon? Does it need special animations when its used to sweep?)

- If animation is limited to standing erect, then it's impossible to make NPCs feel "alive". All they can do is occasionally shift their weight and look around, even in the big-budget games. You can't have some stroll in the room, while others dance in, while some swing their legs while sitting on a chair, etc.

(Hyperbolie) Basically, you follow the slope down to its conclusion and you're spending $100M on a title, and forced to create a WoW clone because that's what people providing the $100M want.

I think Matt Mihaly just said something to the effect that a feature in a 3D MMORPG is 100x-1000x as much work as text. Well, with the limited way I'm doing 3D, features/content are usually only 2x as much work.

02-13-2009, 03:28 AM	#3
MikeRozak Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 48	Re: Graphical “MUD” seeking feedback The arrangement is rooms with 360-degree surround image, like Myst I-IV and Zork Nemesis. I asume PG = pre-generated? The images are rendered on your computer, but then cached away for the next time you wander through the room. I thought about rendering them on the server and downloading them on demand, but the data would be huge. When I began the project, I thought about doing a standard 3D accelertor game world with WASD and always looking at your character's back, but decided not to because it's a slippery slope as far as authoring difficulty goes. My current graphics implementation is more work than a text MUD, but only slightly. However, if I went full 3D WASD looking at your character's back, 3D quickly becomes a morass: - Players can walk everywhere, so the author need to specify where the ground is so they don't fall through. Usually, this specification is trivial (use the ground object's height), but what if there's a cellar that goes below ground. (By the way, once players can walk, need to worry about walking on water, up steep slopes, through lava, etc.) Minor points, but they start adding up... - Authors have to make sure players can't walk through walls... which is mostly automatic, except for specifying doors that open/close. Are curtains walls? - What about jumping? Authors have to make sure players can't jump to places they're not allowed. - And how is climbing ladders handled? (Noticed that most 3D games only have ramps to climb. No stairs. No ladders. Ramps are easier.) - And shouldn't the grass be blowing in the wind? And the water rippling? And the clouds moving? And flags flapping? And bees buzzing? What if my world doesn't have bees? - And even with all that, players will find themselves walking around an empty world without objects and NPCS/PCs positioned in the world... (I cheat by showing their images off to the side. I couldn't do that in a 3D WASD world because objects/NPCs/PCs within the 3D is expected.) - So let players place objects. What about physics modelling when the object is dropped? What if an object is dropped in the water and becomes inaccessible? (What if the author wanted part of the experience in zero-G? Yet another issue.) - And as far as NPCs... the fact is, that with a shoestring modelling and animation budget, all PCs and NPCs are going to stand erect and wear exactly the same clothing, and hold a sword/axe/bow stiffly in their right hand. (Even with a huge animation budget, PCs/NPCs aren't much better.) I have a rat-humanoid that sulks around the place and sweeps up. (Is a broom a two handed weapon? Does it need special animations when its used to sweep?) - If animation is limited to standing erect, then it's impossible to make NPCs feel "alive". All they can do is occasionally shift their weight and look around, even in the big-budget games. You can't have some stroll in the room, while others dance in, while some swing their legs while sitting on a chair, etc. (Hyperbolie) Basically, you follow the slope down to its conclusion and you're spending $100M on a title, and forced to create a WoW clone because that's what people providing the $100M want. I think Matt Mihaly just said something to the effect that a feature in a 3D MMORPG is 100x-1000x as much work as text. Well, with the limited way I'm doing 3D, features/content are usually only 2x as much work.