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Earthmother · 06-18-2005, 02:23 AM

Wise women of the tribe, elder women, in many human cultures have held a positon of high authority.

These can take many forms, whether it be a High Priestess, an elderly (eccentric?) witch, or a tribal council of women as was found in (what is now New England) North American native tribes. Women have held property, Queendoms, and power. Consider the contributions of Egyptian women of nobility, or of any nobility structure. Making these sorts of opportunities available to a long-standing female character would be a good way to keep some accuracy, and give females a worthwhile role to play.

However, generally, the main function of women has been and is the rearing of children. Many female players are young women, who are idealistic, and are yet without the RL responsibility of children. It is not surprising to me that this discussion is being held by males so far. "Why aren't women content to play a truly accurate historical role?" goes the cry.
"Why do they threaten to leave? That's how it *was*."

Well, the camaraderie that comes from a REAL pregnancy, the sense of 'coming into womanhood,' cannot be created in a setting where there is no REAL physical change. And, for the women of the world who now have access to birth control, and choose NOT to bear RL children, they *STILL* find themselves on the 'outside' of 'true' womanhood... a woman without children has always been considered less than a woman. These childless women, whether by choice or by chance, must fight to prove themselves as 'women' in the real world. They must EACH define 'womanhood' for themselves, and TO others. But the MOMENT a woman becomes pregnant, whether she is 14 or 44, a whole world of other women opens up to her. This is very hard to explain... I wish I could do this phenomen justice, but I am unable. Words fail, but the experience is life-altering. There is no way to re-create this experience in text. There is no way male programmers or builders can even BEGIN to tap into this. There is no way to show the TRUE impact of children in womens' lives... in a pretend world. It's nearly impossible to get men to understand it in the REAL world.

Now, in a truly historically accurate setting, how many women will have to die in childbirth? Not out fighting alongside their comrades in battle, but simply die in childbirth? How many female players are you going to ask to do this? Womens' lives are not glamorous. Aside from the types of examples I've mentioned above, they *never* were, and even those examples always came with a price. I see the banner ads here talking about 'lording over dynasties' and 'ruling with an iron fist' and whatnot. If you seek true historical accuracy, you are asking women who STILL fight for equality, who STILL fight to be taken seriously in the workplace, who STILL have to choose between childcare and their career, to take a step back to when they didn't even have THIS much say over thier own lives.

Where would it end, in this 'accurate' historical setting? Rapes depicted graphically in poses, so that your female pbase gets to feel THAT (again) whenever you choose to 'have your way with the wench'? Die rolls to determine if however many years plus 9 months of RP is destroyed bringing a NPC child into the world, by the death of the character? Beatings? Numerous NPC children to be tended, so that the female player never has time to interact with other adult players? There's your accuracy, right there.

Women don't want to play in a pretend world where they have no opportunity for greatness. NOBODY does. Some people may be content to play 'lesser' characters, non-nobles, etc, but if 'historical accuracy' is imperative, and women are to be 'kept in their historical place,' well... then... don't expect 21st century women, with hundreds of years of womens' advancements to want to step back into that. The fact is, we don't *want* to be treated like chattel. Whores, maybe, because then, WE get to define what we do. But property? Less than property? Less than human?

No.

We've come too far.

Now, many of the ideas in this thread so far, i.e. arachnid races that favor the female, human races where a female has an opportunity to succeed through use of extra charisma, that can work. But if you are looking to make MU* life 'historically accurate,' then, some male players need to take the female roles, the roles that make a human being 'less than' other human beings, and see how THEY like it.

In a historically accurate setting, NOBODY would want to BE a woman. Life has traditionally sucked for females across cultures and time. Why, when we are still fighting this 'equality battle' in real life, would we want to spend our free time doing it? It is dehumanizing, in a world that *can* make people feel superhuman.

If you want historically accurate females, make NPCs. Let your real female pbase *have* the ego boost that a game can provide. Don't reserve that privelege for your male pbase, or force female players into male roles so that they can be treated as equals. Or, don't expect accuracy. Nobody wants to be a serf forever.

06-18-2005, 02:23 AM	#6
Earthmother Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Home MUD: GateWay MUD Posts: 68	Wise women of the tribe, elder women, in many human cultures have held a positon of high authority. These can take many forms, whether it be a High Priestess, an elderly (eccentric?) witch, or a tribal council of women as was found in (what is now New England) North American native tribes. Women have held property, Queendoms, and power. Consider the contributions of Egyptian women of nobility, or of any nobility structure. Making these sorts of opportunities available to a long-standing female character would be a good way to keep some accuracy, and give females a worthwhile role to play. However, generally, the main function of women has been and is the rearing of children. Many female players are young women, who are idealistic, and are yet without the RL responsibility of children. It is not surprising to me that this discussion is being held by males so far. "Why aren't women content to play a truly accurate historical role?" goes the cry. "Why do they threaten to leave? That's how it was." Well, the camaraderie that comes from a REAL pregnancy, the sense of 'coming into womanhood,' cannot be created in a setting where there is no REAL physical change. And, for the women of the world who now have access to birth control, and choose NOT to bear RL children, they STILL find themselves on the 'outside' of 'true' womanhood... a woman without children has always been considered less than a woman. These childless women, whether by choice or by chance, must fight to prove themselves as 'women' in the real world. They must EACH define 'womanhood' for themselves, and TO others. But the MOMENT a woman becomes pregnant, whether she is 14 or 44, a whole world of other women opens up to her. This is very hard to explain... I wish I could do this phenomen justice, but I am unable. Words fail, but the experience is life-altering. There is no way to re-create this experience in text. There is no way male programmers or builders can even BEGIN to tap into this. There is no way to show the TRUE impact of children in womens' lives... in a pretend world. It's nearly impossible to get men to understand it in the REAL world. Now, in a truly historically accurate setting, how many women will have to die in childbirth? Not out fighting alongside their comrades in battle, but simply die in childbirth? How many female players are you going to ask to do this? Womens' lives are not glamorous. Aside from the types of examples I've mentioned above, they never were, and even those examples always came with a price. I see the banner ads here talking about 'lording over dynasties' and 'ruling with an iron fist' and whatnot. If you seek true historical accuracy, you are asking women who STILL fight for equality, who STILL fight to be taken seriously in the workplace, who STILL have to choose between childcare and their career, to take a step back to when they didn't even have THIS much say over thier own lives. Where would it end, in this 'accurate' historical setting? Rapes depicted graphically in poses, so that your female pbase gets to feel THAT (again) whenever you choose to 'have your way with the wench'? Die rolls to determine if however many years plus 9 months of RP is destroyed bringing a NPC child into the world, by the death of the character? Beatings? Numerous NPC children to be tended, so that the female player never has time to interact with other adult players? There's your accuracy, right there. Women don't want to play in a pretend world where they have no opportunity for greatness. NOBODY does. Some people may be content to play 'lesser' characters, non-nobles, etc, but if 'historical accuracy' is imperative, and women are to be 'kept in their historical place,' well... then... don't expect 21st century women, with hundreds of years of womens' advancements to want to step back into that. The fact is, we don't want to be treated like chattel. Whores, maybe, because then, WE get to define what we do. But property? Less than property? Less than human? No. We've come too far. Now, many of the ideas in this thread so far, i.e. arachnid races that favor the female, human races where a female has an opportunity to succeed through use of extra charisma, that can work. But if you are looking to make MU* life 'historically accurate,' then, some male players need to take the female roles, the roles that make a human being 'less than' other human beings, and see how THEY like it. In a historically accurate setting, NOBODY would want to BE a woman. Life has traditionally sucked for females across cultures and time. Why, when we are still fighting this 'equality battle' in real life, would we want to spend our free time doing it? It is dehumanizing, in a world that can make people feel superhuman. If you want historically accurate females, make NPCs. Let your real female pbase have the ego boost that a game can provide. Don't reserve that privelege for your male pbase, or force female players into male roles so that they can be treated as equals. Or, don't expect accuracy. Nobody wants to be a serf forever.