View Single Post
Old 08-02-2007, 04:08 PM   #79
Milawe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Home MUD: Stash
Home MUD: Archons of Avenshar
Posts: 653
Milawe has a spectacular aura aboutMilawe has a spectacular aura about
Re: Reasons to promote/discuss your MUD on TMS.

Threshold may be done with the topic, but I'm just getting started.

Flamewars are exactly why I usually don't bother to post on TMS, and it's originally why I quit posting on TMC. I've never gone back to TMC, but I try coming back to TMS every few months. I've given it a go several times over the course of 7-8 years with two or three different posting names because I forget my original posting name between the times that I try. Why do I keep coming back to TMS? I feel like it's an extremely valuable resource to the mudding community because of its lurkers: players who stop in to vote but see an interesting topic, players who are thinking of becoming mud devs themselves, players who simply want to know what goes behind the scenes of running a mud.

The proximate cause for the flame wars is the quick hostility that seems to flare up immediately when specific names post regardless of what they're posting. Most of you respond to the poster and not the topic. People seem far more interested in policing other people's activities and harshing on posters than discussing topics and staying on topic. Most of the people who are posting reviews are RARELY discussing them on the forums. They come, they post their reviews or their flames, and they go. Their damage or their promotion for their mud is done. The end. They don't give a crap about KaVir's opinion of Threshold. They don't give a crap that The_Logos is being flamed AGAIN for whatever topic he had the misfortune of starting or participating in. They don't give a crap if Threshold is being a jackbutt, rude or flat out crazy. They don't give a crap if I'm posting or not posting.

Having said that, there are always the exception, and some people who post reviews WILL come stop in and look. What will they find? They will find a few futile attempts at a discussion on running muds or RP where it's mostly Brody or Warhound responding, and they will find promotionals. They will, however, find REAMS of people telling The_Logos, and to a lesser extent Threshold, how they are crap, how their behavior destroys the mudding community, how they are horrible human beings who really should just go kill themselves right now. (Okay, that last bit was an exaggeration, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see it posted somewhere.)

I work for Threshold. I have for years. I'm not into flame wars, and I detest them. I do, however, love discussion and sharing of ideas, especially between people who I feel are peers. Every time I start a positive thread to discuss some aspect of game building, I get replies from just a few posters that I classify as "positive posters". We struggle to keep the thread alive and chat back and forth until something on our own muds finally takes us fully away. Yet, if certain people on this forum decide to get into an uproar about somebody, people come boiling out of the pixelated woodwork to comment on that person's behavior.

So what if Threshold's behavior is crap? So what if you feel The_Logos is an evil capitalist bastard? If players are as intelligent as you believe, and I fully believe they are, then they can see it for themselves. They don't need 20 posts with you instructing them on how someone offended your sensibilities by their choice of word or topic or how they choose to write something. They don't need to be told how someone needs to be put in a corner for a time out. If that person needs a spanking, then that's what moderators are for. If you want activity to increase, start practicing what you preach and police your OWN activities. Don't judge people and topics by whether or not they work on a commercial mud or whether or not they are associated with someone else. Don't make every thread about you and how you're offended. Don't like how someone posts or choses their words? Put them on ignore instead of writing a treatise on how they should behave and post the way you think they should behave and post. Then make an effort NOT to ignore posts where you can't go gangbusters on someone. Put the energy into participating in the positive threads that you guys put into tearing someone or tearing some mud down. Applaud in the success of your fellow MUD developers instead of trying to find out ways to point out how they're so horrible.

This whole flame subject reminds me of the jokes I see where police are not even allowed to ask questions about someone robbing a store by the color of their skin anymore because it's not PC. ("Ma'am, was he tall? Did he have curly black hair? Did he have a REALLY dark tan, or would you say that his coloring was mocha or dark chocolate?") Most mud reviews are horrible, and I'll be happy to illustrate exactly why they are in a different discussion. (This poor thread has been hi-jacked enough.)

Right now, the most active people on TMS are the MUD devs, and we're lucky enough to have a ton of variety there. We have small mud devs, big mud devs, free mud devs, pay mud devs, pay for perk mud devs, new mud devs, veteran mud devs, coders, builders, etc. While players may not have much to SAY, lots of them do read the discussions, especially on creating muds. Lots of them simply don't have much to say. Players also use this site as a resource where they can check up on the latest developments of muds they don't play much or muds they use to play. The POTENTIAL for involvement is there, but we have to keep in mind that just about every mud out there has its own forums. Players tend to be active on the forums where they play. They are sharing their ideas and such with the people who have the most in common with them - other people who play the same game. MUD devs, however, don't really have a community besides this one where they can share in what THEY do best and what they have interest in. Thus, we should really work on developing this community as it is, and when the community is healthy and viable, posters will come.

The question here is do you want to increase ACTIVE activity on this site, or are you okay with just increasing the PASSVE activity on this site? I do recommend the following changes to the forums if you want people to more easily participate:

1) Change the "active" forum bar (on the left) to be more like the one on the front page. As it is now, you can't really make out what the topic is, and I love being able to see who the last poster was. If it was me, then I don't need to check that thread again. Right now, I find myself clicking back to the main page rather than using the bar on the actual forums page. That makes for inconvenient browsing.

2) Make the active forum bar on the forums list the top 10 most recent topics. That way, things can't get spammed off if several admins happen to make announcements at the same time or if one admin wants to make several announcements.

3) Seriously, encourage people to adjust their attitudes here. Posting here often feels like you're walking in a mine field, and you're just waiting for someone to take offense at something and go ape-poopies on you. You need moderators who are able to diffuse the situation instead of just adding to them.

4) People who volunteer as moderators should be asked to think up positive topics for discussion and starting them at least once a week. That is what we do on our own forums, and it works out really well.

Improvements for the page to encourage passive participation:

1) Look for people to write articles again. I used to do that regularly until I started getting flamed for putting my mud's name in the signature of my articles, which was completely allowed. I'd be happy to do it again, and perhaps other would as well. In this way, you create a resource we can send people to when they're looking for specific help in building a mud or just want to know why things are done the way they are sometimes. People could use help on all sorts of things.

2) Have one place where you link to resources that devs, new and old might use. You could easily get help finding the links and compiling a list. It's a one stop shop for programmers, builders, and area designers alike!

3) Totally contact as many devs (mud or otherwise) as you can to come participate here via email. You only need one simple email on the type of community you're trying to build and push the exchange of ideas and players. Encourage mud administrators who sign their mud up for ranking to visit the forums and contribute. Players will often follow where their admins go just to see what makes them tick.

4) Honestly, if we can figure out a way to get TMS to be the portal between mainstream online gaming and text gaming, it would make TMS the most valuable mudding resource out there. I think tons of people who use the "gateway MMO" to get into gaming have no idea that MU*s exist, and there are personalities that play those games that would probably prefer the richness offered in mudding than the graphical constraints of some of the more popular games. This could be something we brainstorm as a community because I'm really unsure how to go about it except by possibly taking out ads on IGN or other such sites. (That could be totally cost prohibitive, though.)

===

Anyway, this post has gotten long enough. I'm well aware that I'm one of those who crawled out of the woodwork when things got ugly, but I'm not here to pile on or to get flamed. I simply would like to point out these forums need a serious attitude adjustment and to point out that TMS is a valuable resource for ALL of us.
Milawe is offline   Reply With Quote