Thread: Posts undeleted
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Old 08-14-2007, 09:44 AM   #13
cratylus
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 153
cratylus is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Posts undeleted

I am a big fan of newbies. I love them,
because without them my codebase does not
thrive. I tend to them, I nurture them,
I bestow upon them the gifts of my knowledge
and code asking nothing in return but that
they enjoy the codebase and help others when
asked. It is a lovely ecosystem of productivity
and mutual assistance.

In fact, among LP oldtimers, I've earned some
resentment for how vigorously I defend newbs
from the depredations of bored trolls. I
went so far as to set up my own intermud
router to help them avoid being eaten before
they had a chance to open their eyes and
gulp the clean, fresh air that is mudding
and LPC. I am, for all practical purposes,
the patron saint of LPmud noobs.

Perhaps most probative of my qualifications
to handle mud noobs is that I am parent to
a 3 year old.

So believe me when I say I have nothing but
warm affection toward those who seek help
on mudding, be it players, coders, be it
LP or Diku, whatever.

The thing is that whether it's a mud noob
or a 3 year old, "he can't help it, he's new"
only goes so far. Eventually some line has to
be drawn, and some correction must be applied.

The newer the person, often the less they
enjoy the correction. But without the
establishment of basic norms to give new
people a sense of how to conduct themselves,
there's no point in talking with them, and
there's no point being anywhere near them.
Noobs are corrected for their own good, and
for the benefit of the entire community.
Worrying about the one guy who runs away crying
because he doesn't like being told the
local standards of conversation is short-sighted.
If he can't handle it, let him go.

Coddling every lazy person who can't be bothered
to read docs results is populations of lazy
losers. Maybe that's something you find
desirable. I do not. Whether it is done gruffly
or syrup-laden, taking a noob by the hand
and walking them back to their homework is
not only good for them, it's good for us, and
if the person doing the correction is truly
out of line, his peers will handle correcting
*him*. That's how a community works.

If he breaks *rules*, that's where you step in.
But enforcing *politeness* is on the quick and
short path to a forum devoid of clever people
who won't be subject to your fine sensibilities.

And I think that would be counter to the
potential for general usefulness TMS has.

You're the mod for that topic and it's your right
to moderate it as you see fit and
nobody (afaik) is disputing your authority to
employ your own your discretion in the
exercise of that role.

Having said that...

I think that selectively deleting posts in
a thread is along the same dark path of
editing the content of a post (which I do
not claim you did here). It undermines the
integrity of the information on the forum,
not only because it disrupts the continuity
of the flow of that particular dialectic,
but because it also serves the more
counterproductive likelihood that experienced,
insightful members of the community will
choose to avoid participation.

That is not good. That is bad.

I find this insulting (whether Brody finds it insulting is
up to him). I also find this to be a symptom of the problem.
Technical people answer in technical ways. If you want to
**** them off, tell them that their help is unwelcome unless
they gild it with pink fluffy clouds.

To "avoid this kind of thing" all you need to do is
lay off the Miss Manners RP and let people who know what they're
talking about help people who ask for help. If they
do it wrong, *they* will be corrected. If there is
question about where the lines of propriety stand,
the community is in a position to exert authority over that.

Unless crafting turns of phrase that suit *you* is a
rule, I am free to express my help in a way that conforms
to the rules without your interference. If you interfere,
*that's* how "this kind of thing" happens. Blaming Brody
is a poor excuse for hasty overmoderation.

-Crat
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