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Jherlen · 01-18-2004, 10:27 PM

If you'll read my responses to the other threads, you'll note that I actually liked most of the examples other people related. The one I talked about isn't my only view of a no-win scenario: I just brought it up to demonstrate how these sorts of things shouldn't be done.

Conflict between PC's generally results in some PCs winning, and some PCs losing. Conflict between PCs and the IMM-controlled enviornment should not result in the PCs losing 100% of the time. If it does, then why bother to play? Nothing you do will matter, and the IMMs will gladly trot along with their pre-planned plotlines, blatantly ignoring anything the players do.

Suppose, for example, that you decide that a player-controlled kingdom on your MUD is going to be invaded by an outside force bent on destruction and subjugation of the kingdom and its people. You further decide that no matter what the players do, the invasion will be successful. You've suddenly created a no-win situation for your players. No matter what they do, they're going to lose. No matter how "subtle" you decide to be, the players will lose. They could sit and do nothing, or spend hours and hours organizing a resistance, all to the same effect: they lose.

How is this healthy to your MUD? In one fell swoop you, the admin, have destroyed something players were a part of and put effort into, and they had no way of stopping it. This is not bringing them conflict, this is essentially forcing them to be witnesses to your own little MUD-novel. Nothing will upset your players more than to put herculean effort into resisting your invasion, and then having it thrown back in their faces when you toss it all aside. It's unfair to them, and it WILL **** them off. I don't think that sort of rejection is at all healthy to your MUD atmosphere, and I do think it will make your players leave, rather quickly. People don't like to feel like they don't matter and don't make a difference.

You can't please all your players all the time, and I've never said people should attempt to do. I agree with you that that's probably not a good way to keep people interested in your game. However, treating them as if they don't matter and forcing no-win situations down their throats is arguably even worse. A game like that is truly one with no reason to play: you could pick up a book and get the same effect.

01-18-2004, 10:27 PM	#9
Jherlen Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 47	If you'll read my responses to the other threads, you'll note that I actually liked most of the examples other people related. The one I talked about isn't my only view of a no-win scenario: I just brought it up to demonstrate how these sorts of things shouldn't be done. Conflict between PC's generally results in some PCs winning, and some PCs losing. Conflict between PCs and the IMM-controlled enviornment should not result in the PCs losing 100% of the time. If it does, then why bother to play? Nothing you do will matter, and the IMMs will gladly trot along with their pre-planned plotlines, blatantly ignoring anything the players do. Suppose, for example, that you decide that a player-controlled kingdom on your MUD is going to be invaded by an outside force bent on destruction and subjugation of the kingdom and its people. You further decide that no matter what the players do, the invasion will be successful. You've suddenly created a no-win situation for your players. No matter what they do, they're going to lose. No matter how "subtle" you decide to be, the players will lose. They could sit and do nothing, or spend hours and hours organizing a resistance, all to the same effect: they lose. How is this healthy to your MUD? In one fell swoop you, the admin, have destroyed something players were a part of and put effort into, and they had no way of stopping it. This is not bringing them conflict, this is essentially forcing them to be witnesses to your own little MUD-novel. Nothing will upset your players more than to put herculean effort into resisting your invasion, and then having it thrown back in their faces when you toss it all aside. It's unfair to them, and it WILL **** them off. I don't think that sort of rejection is at all healthy to your MUD atmosphere, and I do think it will make your players leave, rather quickly. People don't like to feel like they don't matter and don't make a difference. You can't please all your players all the time, and I've never said people should attempt to do. I agree with you that that's probably not a good way to keep people interested in your game. However, treating them as if they don't matter and forcing no-win situations down their throats is arguably even worse. A game like that is truly one with no reason to play: you could pick up a book and get the same effect.