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Yui Unifex · 03-13-2003, 01:40 PM

I don't seem to have any troubles with it. gdb treats user-defined operators the same as other functions. (more on this below)

Not sure what you mean here. In code, copy constructors cascade parent copy constructors down the line. If it's in-game data that's dealt with via an encapsulated datatype, the copy constructor should handle copying it.

Right -- it's an extra step in userspace.

No, it's a legitimate concern. I can write a library of code using these templates (supposing for the moment that C had templates) and never have to worry about the user being able use it with built-in types as well as user-define types. This bit of "syntactic sugar" is very important in reducing the amount of duplicated code and thus errors.

I'm sorry? To get the speed of an unchecked int you would use an unchecked int as the template argument. The "headache of remembering what you're using" can be easily alleviated by a quick dosage of glancing up at your variable declarations =).

Use a debugger =). (From above) gdb allows debugging of operator=() just as it does an equals() function. So long as one remembers that operators can be overloaded and assert their assumptions, everything should be fine.

Oh indeed -- if the operation is not clear then they should be renamed to alleviate this problem. This applies to both overloaded operators and function names, of course =).

Just recently, that's why it popped in my mind =). I was just writing a spacial system module where my coordinate-types are templated. However I was having a problem with my movement setting my coordinates out of the bounds of the node in which I was currently located. A quick CheckedFloat object thrown into the template for my coord (which normally uses regular floats) and I was able to find the problem in a few minutes.

IMO, it should match the way the problem domain works as closely as possible. If it's not possible to match the problem domain, then making up an operator is as you say, likely to cause pain. But this isn't a problem with operator overloading, this is a problem of the discipline of the coder. To argue that C++ or even Perl facilitates undisciplined coding is disingenious because one could easily apply those arguments as reasoning for why everybody should use VB.

You don't have to use it for operations you don't embrace =). If someone on your project uses it against your will then that's an issue that you two need to handle, not a programming language designer. A document on coding standards is important for large projects, and if it's a point of ire for developers then things should be clarified in this document, rather than spoiling the broth by restricting the entire language. This is a big complaint I have about Java.

<grins> The methods I've seen for doing that kind of output have been:
+ operator (Supported by C++)
& operator (VB)
. operator (PHP)
<< operator (C++)

What operator or method (if it's not using operators) would you suggest be used for stream input?

03-13-2003, 01:40 PM	#14
Yui Unifex Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 323	I don't seem to have any troubles with it. gdb treats user-defined operators the same as other functions. (more on this below) Not sure what you mean here. In code, copy constructors cascade parent copy constructors down the line. If it's in-game data that's dealt with via an encapsulated datatype, the copy constructor should handle copying it. Right -- it's an extra step in userspace. No, it's a legitimate concern. I can write a library of code using these templates (supposing for the moment that C had templates) and never have to worry about the user being able use it with built-in types as well as user-define types. This bit of "syntactic sugar" is very important in reducing the amount of duplicated code and thus errors. I'm sorry? To get the speed of an unchecked int you would use an unchecked int as the template argument. The "headache of remembering what you're using" can be easily alleviated by a quick dosage of glancing up at your variable declarations =). Use a debugger =). (From above) gdb allows debugging of operator=() just as it does an equals() function. So long as one remembers that operators can be overloaded and assert their assumptions, everything should be fine. Oh indeed -- if the operation is not clear then they should be renamed to alleviate this problem. This applies to both overloaded operators and function names, of course =). Just recently, that's why it popped in my mind =). I was just writing a spacial system module where my coordinate-types are templated. However I was having a problem with my movement setting my coordinates out of the bounds of the node in which I was currently located. A quick CheckedFloat object thrown into the template for my coord (which normally uses regular floats) and I was able to find the problem in a few minutes. IMO, it should match the way the problem domain works as closely as possible. If it's not possible to match the problem domain, then making up an operator is as you say, likely to cause pain. But this isn't a problem with operator overloading, this is a problem of the discipline of the coder. To argue that C++ or even Perl facilitates undisciplined coding is disingenious because one could easily apply those arguments as reasoning for why everybody should use VB. You don't have to use it for operations you don't embrace =). If someone on your project uses it against your will then that's an issue that you two need to handle, not a programming language designer. A document on coding standards is important for large projects, and if it's a point of ire for developers then things should be clarified in this document, rather than spoiling the broth by restricting the entire language. This is a big complaint I have about Java. <grins> The methods I've seen for doing that kind of output have been: + operator (Supported by C++) & operator (VB) . operator (PHP) << operator (C++) What operator or method (if it's not using operators) would you suggest be used for stream input?