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eiz · 01-10-2006, 03:53 PM

Well, if you have to pay before you can play (i.e. subscribe to something), then it's ... not free to play. This is pretty simple, I think.

No, it's not. To put it simply, I can't answer because the question is wrong. I am not TMS either. I don't know what Synozeer thinks, so I can only judge by his actions, which so far amount to not changing anything.

My definition of free to play is that you don't have to pay money to be allowed to play the game. It's that simple. I have never claimed anything even slightly different. If Threshold lets you play the game without having paid, it's free to play. If The Eternal City lets you play the game without having paid, it's free to play. If you have to have a Skotos subscription, that counts as paying.

There is no requirement in the first place, but that's not the point. What I said was, and I'm repeating it for the third time, is that not all credits on the currency market have to be paid for. If nobody bought credits, you'd still be able to buy them for gold because they are given away in events. It's not just that they give stuff away - it's that there's a market for it which makes it functionally equivalent to any other limited resource in the game.

There seem to be two things people have a problem with here, the "free to play" label which is in IRE's ad text and the database entry. I say IRE is perfectly justified in calling themselves free to play on account of the easily verifiable fact that you can go and login to their games and play all you want without spending a dime. The database listing could certainly be made more descriptive, but since it doesn't actually say anything false on the info page, I see it as more of a "gee, TMS search sure could be more helpful" thing than a "burn the capitalist pigs" issue. This is not specifically directed at you, but I've seen quite a few people throwing around words like unethical over this. That is not a claim to be made lightly and I don't think it's justified. Given the options "Free" and "Pay-per-play," IRE is more of the former than the latter, if you consider that you never actually pay to play. You pay for the +5 Sword of Super-Leet, maybe, but that's different.

The whole issue of the database listing could be solved by changing "Pay per play" to the catch-all "Commercial." I think that would be totally reasonable. Again, though, that is up to TMS, not you or me or even Matt.

FWIW, I think that even if IRE didn't allow you to access all content for free, they'd have a reasonable shot at claiming "free to play."

Listing "pay-per-play" would in fact be misleading and untrue - if I saw that, I would instantly assume I needed a subscription - while saying nothing does not. Unless you look at every info page until you find one that happens to say pay per play, you will never even notice. If it said Free with no qualifiers, you might count that as misleading, but it doesn't.

As for other games which do not list themselves as Pay-per-play but take your money... again, do you have to pay to play? If not, saying nothing is less misleading.

01-10-2006, 03:53 PM	#40
eiz New Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 25	Well, if you have to pay before you can play (i.e. subscribe to something), then it's ... not free to play. This is pretty simple, I think. No, it's not. To put it simply, I can't answer because the question is wrong. I am not TMS either. I don't know what Synozeer thinks, so I can only judge by his actions, which so far amount to not changing anything. My definition of free to play is that you don't have to pay money to be allowed to play the game. It's that simple. I have never claimed anything even slightly different. If Threshold lets you play the game without having paid, it's free to play. If The Eternal City lets you play the game without having paid, it's free to play. If you have to have a Skotos subscription, that counts as paying. There is no requirement in the first place, but that's not the point. What I said was, and I'm repeating it for the third time, is that not all credits on the currency market have to be paid for. If nobody bought credits, you'd still be able to buy them for gold because they are given away in events. It's not just that they give stuff away - it's that there's a market for it which makes it functionally equivalent to any other limited resource in the game. There seem to be two things people have a problem with here, the "free to play" label which is in IRE's ad text and the database entry. I say IRE is perfectly justified in calling themselves free to play on account of the easily verifiable fact that you can go and login to their games and play all you want without spending a dime. The database listing could certainly be made more descriptive, but since it doesn't actually say anything false on the info page, I see it as more of a "gee, TMS search sure could be more helpful" thing than a "burn the capitalist pigs" issue. This is not specifically directed at you, but I've seen quite a few people throwing around words like unethical over this. That is not a claim to be made lightly and I don't think it's justified. Given the options "Free" and "Pay-per-play," IRE is more of the former than the latter, if you consider that you never actually pay to play. You pay for the +5 Sword of Super-Leet, maybe, but that's different. The whole issue of the database listing could be solved by changing "Pay per play" to the catch-all "Commercial." I think that would be totally reasonable. Again, though, that is up to TMS, not you or me or even Matt. FWIW, I think that even if IRE didn't allow you to access all content for free, they'd have a reasonable shot at claiming "free to play." Listing "pay-per-play" would in fact be misleading and untrue - if I saw that, I would instantly assume I needed a subscription - while saying nothing does not. Unless you look at every info page until you find one that happens to say pay per play, you will never even notice. If it said Free with no qualifiers, you might count that as misleading, but it doesn't. As for other games which do not list themselves as Pay-per-play but take your money... again, do you have to pay to play? If not, saying nothing is less misleading.