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Molly · 09-25-2002, 01:23 PM

What's the problem with a free debate? This is a Discussion Forum, right, so why wouldn't we discuss things? Should certain topics be banned from the Forum? And who's to say which topics are allowed and which aren't?

Actually I think an open discussion is good, much better than e-mailing. It shows if the general opinion is leaning in one direction or another. It also provides some input to ideas tossed out by one person, that you wouldn't get in an e-mail dialogue.

Also, I think Synozeer is mature enough to handle the discussion in the same spirit that it began, as a suggestion to how the boards could possibly be improved. (And if I were him, I'd much prefer the open debate to being spammed by e-mails. But then again, I am not him. Nor are you, Brody. So let's not make assumptions about what he thinks, when the only assumption we really CAN make is how we would prefer to handle the situation ourselves).

As to the topic of the discussion, I am all for showing which muds are pay-to-play in the list - or better still make two different lists, one for free muds and one for commercial ones. After all, this IS the big dividing line between muds, (for better and for worse).

The pay-to-play muds have a big advantage when it comes to advertising, since they actually make money on their game. I, (and lots of other implementors of 'free' muds), put a lot of unpaid work into the mud, because it is a hobby and we love creating a world and see it grow and interact with players. But I draw the line at paying for banners, I just don't have that kind of funds.

Adding this type of info to the list would add a very valuable information for most players, while at the same time helping the free muds to even out that difference, at least to a minor extent. And regardless of what someone stated further down in the thread, it is not always obvious that a mud is pay-to-play immediately when you log on. In fact, many of the pay-to-play muds, especially those that offer 'donation equipment', use very devious tactics to snare new players. Far from giving clear and simple information about it on the log-in screen, they offer a free 'trial period', up to level 20 or so, in the hope of the new player getting hooked before then. There are also those that CLAIM to be 'no charge', but where your chances of advancing are very limited, unless you pay or 'donate' to get the extra features, like certain commands or pieces of good equipment.

For most of the commercial muds money and large player numbers are the big issues, the more players they can get, the more money gets into the pockets of the owner. Which perhaps explains, if not excuses, some of the slightly shady business policies you occasionally encounter.

And speaking about that, I also find it slightly disgusting that some mud owners apparently are prepared to stoop to any depths to inflate the votes for their mud, (as is currently being discussed in another endless thread). It may not be illegal, it may not be breaking the rules of the List, but I think most posters would agree that it is morally and ethically dubious. If people are prepared to tamper with ip addresses to be able to multiple vote, or to hassle or bribe their players to vote, that's just cheesy. One would think most potential players should be able to draw their own conclusions from it, but apparently that isn't so. Maybe the world wants to be ripped off?

09-25-2002, 01:23 PM	#21
Molly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Sweden Home MUD: 4 Dimensions Posts: 574	What's the problem with a free debate? This is a Discussion Forum, right, so why wouldn't we discuss things? Should certain topics be banned from the Forum? And who's to say which topics are allowed and which aren't? Actually I think an open discussion is good, much better than e-mailing. It shows if the general opinion is leaning in one direction or another. It also provides some input to ideas tossed out by one person, that you wouldn't get in an e-mail dialogue. Also, I think Synozeer is mature enough to handle the discussion in the same spirit that it began, as a suggestion to how the boards could possibly be improved. (And if I were him, I'd much prefer the open debate to being spammed by e-mails. But then again, I am not him. Nor are you, Brody. So let's not make assumptions about what he thinks, when the only assumption we really CAN make is how we would prefer to handle the situation ourselves). As to the topic of the discussion, I am all for showing which muds are pay-to-play in the list - or better still make two different lists, one for free muds and one for commercial ones. After all, this IS the big dividing line between muds, (for better and for worse). The pay-to-play muds have a big advantage when it comes to advertising, since they actually make money on their game. I, (and lots of other implementors of 'free' muds), put a lot of unpaid work into the mud, because it is a hobby and we love creating a world and see it grow and interact with players. But I draw the line at paying for banners, I just don't have that kind of funds. Adding this type of info to the list would add a very valuable information for most players, while at the same time helping the free muds to even out that difference, at least to a minor extent. And regardless of what someone stated further down in the thread, it is not always obvious that a mud is pay-to-play immediately when you log on. In fact, many of the pay-to-play muds, especially those that offer 'donation equipment', use very devious tactics to snare new players. Far from giving clear and simple information about it on the log-in screen, they offer a free 'trial period', up to level 20 or so, in the hope of the new player getting hooked before then. There are also those that CLAIM to be 'no charge', but where your chances of advancing are very limited, unless you pay or 'donate' to get the extra features, like certain commands or pieces of good equipment. For most of the commercial muds money and large player numbers are the big issues, the more players they can get, the more money gets into the pockets of the owner. Which perhaps explains, if not excuses, some of the slightly shady business policies you occasionally encounter. And speaking about that, I also find it slightly disgusting that some mud owners apparently are prepared to stoop to any depths to inflate the votes for their mud, (as is currently being discussed in another endless thread). It may not be illegal, it may not be breaking the rules of the List, but I think most posters would agree that it is morally and ethically dubious. If people are prepared to tamper with ip addresses to be able to multiple vote, or to hassle or bribe their players to vote, that's just cheesy. One would think most potential players should be able to draw their own conclusions from it, but apparently that isn't so. Maybe the world wants to be ripped off?