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Molly · 02-16-2005, 06:47 PM

the_logos Feb. 16 2005,14:11
I meant it in a figurative way, and also note that I said 'on the verge of criminal.' If you are going to quote me, plese do it correctly.

I am well aware that providing free cheat info on a website - or even selling the same info - doesn't fall under criminal law. That doesn't mean I have to like it, any more than I like some other sleazy things on the fringes of muds, like selling equipment or even chars for RL money.

I like a fair play and a fair game, and I think Admin should try to sell the idea of that to the players as much as possible.

And one way of doing that is to make it clear to them that cheating is not acceptable behaviour, and that if you ARE caught with your hand in the jam jar, you are going to get punished in some way or other.

That said, I'd like to clear my standpoint on cheating to Tyche:

1. I don't think you should have any rules in a Mud that you don't have a reasonable chance of also enforcing. I do think that you should enforce the ones that you have however.

2. I am a Builder, (and so is Sonya, who you mentioned), so naturally we don't like to see our work misused. I try as much as possible to make my quests reasonably 'cheat proof', by adding random elements, and lower the rewards when the quest is repeated. But it is very hard to protect against blabbing, unless you make the scripts so elaborate that it really isn't worth the time and effort. There is a limit to the time you can put down on each single quest. And however hard you try, bugs WILL appear every now and then, especially in new zones.

3. I don't think anyone should be judged without cut and clear evidence, neither in a mud or in RL. I'd never judge a player based solely on accusations from other players myself. But some players are such obvious bad eggs that you soon run out of any sympathy for them.

4. I also think that player privacy should be respected, and that habitually snooping and spying on players is generally a bad thing. If this means that a number of cheaters who would otherwise get caught are going free , I'll have to live with that. (Note; I am not saying that the snoop command is never used on my Mud. It is however restricted to imp level, to avoid imms being nosy out of sheer boredom, and we never use it without good reason). Also, as Tyche already pointed out, if you monitor your players on line, they just take their blabbing to ICQ or AIM.

5. However, a blatant cheat site on the net is way over the borderline for me. Some people may find it amusing, some might even consider it a possible source of income. I guess next we might have Mudowners offering to sell quest info from their own game for $. As for myself, I consider it an insult both to the game and the players, and everything possible should be done to shut it down. (And I doubt that the info on a cheat page would NOT fall under copyright infringement).

6. Finally, imms that abuse their chars to get game advantages for their mortal chars, or those of their personal friends, should lose their imm privileges immediately. There is no excuse for cheating imms and it should never be tolerated on any mud.

02-16-2005, 06:47 PM	#20
Molly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Sweden Home MUD: 4 Dimensions Posts: 574	the_logos Feb. 16 2005,14:11 I meant it in a figurative way, and also note that I said 'on the verge of criminal.' If you are going to quote me, plese do it correctly. I am well aware that providing free cheat info on a website - or even selling the same info - doesn't fall under criminal law. That doesn't mean I have to like it, any more than I like some other sleazy things on the fringes of muds, like selling equipment or even chars for RL money. I like a fair play and a fair game, and I think Admin should try to sell the idea of that to the players as much as possible. And one way of doing that is to make it clear to them that cheating is not acceptable behaviour, and that if you ARE caught with your hand in the jam jar, you are going to get punished in some way or other. That said, I'd like to clear my standpoint on cheating to Tyche: 1. I don't think you should have any rules in a Mud that you don't have a reasonable chance of also enforcing. I do think that you should enforce the ones that you have however. 2. I am a Builder, (and so is Sonya, who you mentioned), so naturally we don't like to see our work misused. I try as much as possible to make my quests reasonably 'cheat proof', by adding random elements, and lower the rewards when the quest is repeated. But it is very hard to protect against blabbing, unless you make the scripts so elaborate that it really isn't worth the time and effort. There is a limit to the time you can put down on each single quest. And however hard you try, bugs WILL appear every now and then, especially in new zones. 3. I don't think anyone should be judged without cut and clear evidence, neither in a mud or in RL. I'd never judge a player based solely on accusations from other players myself. But some players are such obvious bad eggs that you soon run out of any sympathy for them. 4. I also think that player privacy should be respected, and that habitually snooping and spying on players is generally a bad thing. If this means that a number of cheaters who would otherwise get caught are going free , I'll have to live with that. (Note; I am not saying that the snoop command is never used on my Mud. It is however restricted to imp level, to avoid imms being nosy out of sheer boredom, and we never use it without good reason). Also, as Tyche already pointed out, if you monitor your players on line, they just take their blabbing to ICQ or AIM. 5. However, a blatant cheat site on the net is way over the borderline for me. Some people may find it amusing, some might even consider it a possible source of income. I guess next we might have Mudowners offering to sell quest info from their own game for $. As for myself, I consider it an insult both to the game and the players, and everything possible should be done to shut it down. (And I doubt that the info on a cheat page would NOT fall under copyright infringement). 6. Finally, imms that abuse their chars to get game advantages for their mortal chars, or those of their personal friends, should lose their imm privileges immediately. There is no excuse for cheating imms and it should never be tolerated on any mud.