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the_logos · 09-28-2007, 04:00 PM

If you don't see OOC, it doesn't affect you, so it doesn't matter whether you know it happened or not. If I, as an admin, am chatting OOCly with my fellow admins or, in private with a player (in order to resolve a customer service issue or something), it has absolutely zero effect on your experience. Presumably the idea here is, after all, to provide information that impacts a player's experience (not sure what the point is otherwise).

Further, it IS possible for an admin to actually enforce these rules 100%. It IS possible to monitor all communication in-game and enforce a policy that bans certain types of communication (OOC, x-rated, whatever).

That's not the case for RMT/first-party sales. An admin can never honestly say it doesn't happen in his MUD because it doesn't happen in his MUD. It happens outside of it - outside of both his control and knowledge.

Again, whether violations of RP or a G-rating affect your experience as a player are verifiable. It makes zero difference whether the admins of an RP-enforced MUD chat privately OOCly. If you don't see it, it doesn't affect you.

I'd argue that real-money transactions are basically the same in that they don't directly affect you if you don't see it, but I suspect I'm in a minority there. The argument being implicitly put forth by many posters is that it does affect you even if you don't see it.

Allowing a MUD to check a box that says that something completely outside of the scope of their knowledge and control (since it happens out of the game) is not happening is a little bit...off. Taking a cue from another current discussion on TMS about IM in RP enforced games, it would be completely dishonest for a MUD to claim that players aren't sharing IC information via IM. The admins have no way of detecting it or knowing it.

Well, that's not actually different from now. As Lasher has said, the primary way people find MUDs now IS the ranking list, not the search feature. That's not to say the now situation is preferable to other situations. Just pointing it out.

Perhaps you should review the title of this thread. "What does Free mean?" The entire thread is hypothetical given that language has no objective meaning.

Discussing the facts behind the reality of running online games is not "confusing" the issue. You may be uncomfortable with those facts (such as that it is not possible to honestly claim that money doesn't affect gameplay) but that doesn't change them.

You may feel it's convenient to discard some facts or avoiding certain lines of questioning because it makes arriving at a conclusion more difficult (or maybe I'm misreading what you're saying), but I don't really believe it's in anyone's best interest to arrive at a legitimate conclusion that way.

--matt

09-28-2007, 04:00 PM	#518
the_logos Legend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mill Valley, California Posts: 2,305	Re: Obfuscation If you don't see OOC, it doesn't affect you, so it doesn't matter whether you know it happened or not. If I, as an admin, am chatting OOCly with my fellow admins or, in private with a player (in order to resolve a customer service issue or something), it has absolutely zero effect on your experience. Presumably the idea here is, after all, to provide information that impacts a player's experience (not sure what the point is otherwise). Further, it IS possible for an admin to actually enforce these rules 100%. It IS possible to monitor all communication in-game and enforce a policy that bans certain types of communication (OOC, x-rated, whatever). That's not the case for RMT/first-party sales. An admin can never honestly say it doesn't happen in his MUD because it doesn't happen in his MUD. It happens outside of it - outside of both his control and knowledge. Again, whether violations of RP or a G-rating affect your experience as a player are verifiable. It makes zero difference whether the admins of an RP-enforced MUD chat privately OOCly. If you don't see it, it doesn't affect you. I'd argue that real-money transactions are basically the same in that they don't directly affect you if you don't see it, but I suspect I'm in a minority there. The argument being implicitly put forth by many posters is that it does affect you even if you don't see it. Allowing a MUD to check a box that says that something completely outside of the scope of their knowledge and control (since it happens out of the game) is not happening is a little bit...off. Taking a cue from another current discussion on TMS about IM in RP enforced games, it would be completely dishonest for a MUD to claim that players aren't sharing IC information via IM. The admins have no way of detecting it or knowing it. Well, that's not actually different from now. As Lasher has said, the primary way people find MUDs now IS the ranking list, not the search feature. That's not to say the now situation is preferable to other situations. Just pointing it out. Perhaps you should review the title of this thread. "What does Free mean?" The entire thread is hypothetical given that language has no objective meaning. Discussing the facts behind the reality of running online games is not "confusing" the issue. You may be uncomfortable with those facts (such as that it is not possible to honestly claim that money doesn't affect gameplay) but that doesn't change them. You may feel it's convenient to discard some facts or avoiding certain lines of questioning because it makes arriving at a conclusion more difficult (or maybe I'm misreading what you're saying), but I don't really believe it's in anyone's best interest to arrive at a legitimate conclusion that way. --matt