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Molly · 06-15-2004, 02:51 AM

This discussion just shows what we already knew; that some mud owners would go to any lengths to get a high score. The voting list has been ridiculous for a very long time, ever since certain muds introduced certain methods to boost their votes, methods that had never been a problem in all the years before. As soon as one unethical method is exposed and 'stopped' by new rules, they will invent something new. Or just become more secretive about what they are doing. And as long as not ALL muds use the same methods, the voting results will obviously get skewed, since they are not competing from an equal footing.

Also there are even more unethical methods than those that have been discussed so far. And below is a true story, to illustrate that fact. It's a bit longwinded, so bear with me; it does have a point.

The voting system is designed to prevent spam votes from the same person (the 12 hour rule), and that filter works up to a certain point. This does however not stop people with access to a large number of hijacked computers, the type of persons that are usually referred to as l337 or hackers (by themselves), or script-kiddies (by others). Those are pretty common in the mud world, we have at least 4 of them even in our rather small mud.

One of those 'hacker' players has caused us some problems in the past. On two occassions he has ddosed the mud and crashed the server, after quarrels with some of the other players. We don't usually ban troublemakers, and in this case it would also have been pretty useless. So I talked to him instead, and made him realise that crashing the server of a mud you actually like to play is not a very good idea. After that he's mended his ways, and become a skilled player and very loyal to the mud.

But here comes the interesting part:

I stopped reminding my players to vote over a year ago, since it seemed obvious that they needed to be hassled almost constantly for us to even get close to top of the list, and that just isn't my style. Accordingly we dropped to a very low position on the list.

About half a year ago this player decided he wasn't satisfied with this low position. So he approached me on line and offered to demonstrate how it was possible to 'better' the votes. He told me to watch the list on line, and then, in about 30 minutes, he advanced us just as many places. Apparently he controls a lot of computers all over the world with 'Trojans', and was using those to vote. He also told me that there was some kind of barrier against it on the website, and that it took him 20 minutes to crack that. (Apparently he meant this as a compliment to Synozeer's defence system, not the opposite).

After this demonstration he offered to set up a script, so that the spam voting could be done automatically from the shell at the beginning of every 12 hour period, because as he said, it took him some time doing it manually, and he was too lazy to keep it up. He said that he would provide the isps to vote from, but the actual script had to be run from the shell. I'm not sure about why, because I am no computer expert myself, but that's what he said.

I don't like cheating in any form, so I politely declined the offer and told him to stop what he was doing, and we dropped back to our usual place in the listing. I think our low position will convince anyone in doubt, that we are not cheating with our votes.

Still, his demonstration convinced me that it can be done, and my belief is that some muds actually are doing things along this line. I am not pointing the finger at anyone particular, but to me all those with an unusual large number of votes compared to the actual player base look a bit fishy. Just do the math. Since I know how the average player works, it seems pretty obvious that you don't get large number of votes without giving some incentive (positive or negative, hidden or open).

The average player is very loyal to his/her home mud, but doesn't like taking the time off mudding to visit a webpage and click a button. But the average player does not like being spammed with reminders to vote either. That narrows it down to either secret incentives, (perhaps given only to 'trusted' players), or other forms of cheating, (like for instance the above mentioned method. Or maybe a script that uses the adresses of all the players on the mud instead. Perhaps a script that makes every player automatically vote on log-on, by clicking a link without even being aware of it).

My story is just an illustration that there are more than one way to skin a goose.

The list as it stands is pretty useless. It doesn't even show who brings most 'traffic' to the page, because the majority of thosee voters are not really visiting the website, they just click a link. What it mainly shows is which muds are best at inventing different methods of boosting their score.

06-15-2004, 02:51 AM	#67
Molly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Sweden Home MUD: 4 Dimensions Posts: 574	This discussion just shows what we already knew; that some mud owners would go to any lengths to get a high score. The voting list has been ridiculous for a very long time, ever since certain muds introduced certain methods to boost their votes, methods that had never been a problem in all the years before. As soon as one unethical method is exposed and 'stopped' by new rules, they will invent something new. Or just become more secretive about what they are doing. And as long as not ALL muds use the same methods, the voting results will obviously get skewed, since they are not competing from an equal footing. Also there are even more unethical methods than those that have been discussed so far. And below is a true story, to illustrate that fact. It's a bit longwinded, so bear with me; it does have a point. The voting system is designed to prevent spam votes from the same person (the 12 hour rule), and that filter works up to a certain point. This does however not stop people with access to a large number of hijacked computers, the type of persons that are usually referred to as l337 or hackers (by themselves), or script-kiddies (by others). Those are pretty common in the mud world, we have at least 4 of them even in our rather small mud. One of those 'hacker' players has caused us some problems in the past. On two occassions he has ddosed the mud and crashed the server, after quarrels with some of the other players. We don't usually ban troublemakers, and in this case it would also have been pretty useless. So I talked to him instead, and made him realise that crashing the server of a mud you actually like to play is not a very good idea. After that he's mended his ways, and become a skilled player and very loyal to the mud. But here comes the interesting part: I stopped reminding my players to vote over a year ago, since it seemed obvious that they needed to be hassled almost constantly for us to even get close to top of the list, and that just isn't my style. Accordingly we dropped to a very low position on the list. About half a year ago this player decided he wasn't satisfied with this low position. So he approached me on line and offered to demonstrate how it was possible to 'better' the votes. He told me to watch the list on line, and then, in about 30 minutes, he advanced us just as many places. Apparently he controls a lot of computers all over the world with 'Trojans', and was using those to vote. He also told me that there was some kind of barrier against it on the website, and that it took him 20 minutes to crack that. (Apparently he meant this as a compliment to Synozeer's defence system, not the opposite). After this demonstration he offered to set up a script, so that the spam voting could be done automatically from the shell at the beginning of every 12 hour period, because as he said, it took him some time doing it manually, and he was too lazy to keep it up. He said that he would provide the isps to vote from, but the actual script had to be run from the shell. I'm not sure about why, because I am no computer expert myself, but that's what he said. I don't like cheating in any form, so I politely declined the offer and told him to stop what he was doing, and we dropped back to our usual place in the listing. I think our low position will convince anyone in doubt, that we are not cheating with our votes. Still, his demonstration convinced me that it can be done, and my belief is that some muds actually are doing things along this line. I am not pointing the finger at anyone particular, but to me all those with an unusual large number of votes compared to the actual player base look a bit fishy. Just do the math. Since I know how the average player works, it seems pretty obvious that you don't get large number of votes without giving some incentive (positive or negative, hidden or open). The average player is very loyal to his/her home mud, but doesn't like taking the time off mudding to visit a webpage and click a button. But the average player does not like being spammed with reminders to vote either. That narrows it down to either secret incentives, (perhaps given only to 'trusted' players), or other forms of cheating, (like for instance the above mentioned method. Or maybe a script that uses the adresses of all the players on the mud instead. Perhaps a script that makes every player automatically vote on log-on, by clicking a link without even being aware of it). My story is just an illustration that there are more than one way to skin a goose. The list as it stands is pretty useless. It doesn't even show who brings most 'traffic' to the page, because the majority of thosee voters are not really visiting the website, they just click a link. What it mainly shows is which muds are best at inventing different methods of boosting their score.