[the_logos]

Sorry to ask, but can't see the deletion thread.
But the standard isn't "What's notable for a MUD" it's "What's notable." I doubt they're consistent about it, but I DO think that Wikipedia is at least in theory made better by considering what's notable rather than what's notable relative to the audience size of something. If you use the latter standard, then you're in a situation where the more obscure the subject matter, the easier it is to have a Wikipedia page. At the extreme, If I invent a new type of game with one friend, we could convincingly claim that it is the #1 game of that type of game in the world. So what though?

Scale that scenario up a lot and I can see where most MUDs are going to have a very hard time establishing themselves as having any notability to the wider world. I'm not trying to be unnecessarily dismissive of the mentions in CGM and CGW but weren't they basically throwaway mentions? (much like when Total PC Gaming recently ranked Achaea as the best MUD in the world. I'm proud of that and will certainly use it in marketing, but it was, frankly, a throwaway mention). Consider this: It is not a big deal to simply be included in a computer games magazine for a couple of sentences. It's really not. Multiple dozens of games get included in every single issue of pretty much every single games magazine. It's totally routine to simply be mentioned, in fact.

Wasn't Wikipedia's thing here was that this was a volunteer with no established credibility as a journalist? I'd have to agree.

I was very fond of GameCommandos, and Ilya, its creator, was a full-time Iron Realms employee for four or five years (ending a few months ago). I wouldn't consider it more than a jumped up blog though. Also, can you even prove this happened (I'm not questioning you, but without evidence I think Wikipedia should be questioning it)? Gamecommandos seems to be completely gone.

I think there are two issues here. One is it doesn't appear to be on Cnet anymore and two is that if it's the blurb on Theshold's site, I think that squarely qualifies as a throwaway mention. It's basically a letter to the editor from a random Cnet user. Again, not trying to attack you here. I can just see the point of view that would disqualify this kind of thing from notability.

I'd probably side with Wikipedia as to the authoritativeness of those sites for their purposes.

I don't know what Wikipedia's rules are here so I can't really comment, but there's certainly room for Wikipedia to decide that what Bartle thinks of as notable isn't what Wikipedia thinks of as notable.

I don't think simply existing for 12 years makes most things notable. Sure, if you were to get a radioactive isotope with a half life of a millisecond to last for 12 years, you'd have done something pretty notable. Existing as MUD for 12 years is just a matter of having started it more than 12 years ago and paying the hosting bill every month.

Characters created doesn't mean anything. I could launch a MUD and do that in a few days with a script (or another user could, etc).

The problem with claiming that you're the only commercial roleplay enforced game in existence is that it's true or not true depending on what you mean, on a detail level, by roleplay enforced. For instance, on the lighter end, some big commercial MMOs have "roleplay enforced" servers. Their enforcement is pretty much limited to requiring a less-chaotic naming policy, but it's "enforced" in some sense. Threshold has a higher level of enforcement, but certainly isn't as roleplay enforced as another MUD could be. Plus, I don't know that being the only COMMERCIAL roleplay enforced game is enough of a distinguisher, particularly as I consider commercial to be just another game feature, like having PvP or not having orcs. Again, I'm not sure this is particularly notable. Almost every MUD could claim to be the only MUD in existence with a particular combination of game features.


I share your wishes here that MUD admins bring this to people's attention on TMS or TMC when this happens. I think what I think of as notability is a lot closer to the Wikipedia line than yours, but please understand it's a legitimate difference of opinion, not an attempt to attack Threshold or you.