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Loremaster · 11-01-2002, 12:53 AM

#1 Could you elaborate on your gripe regarding RT's? It seems plausible to me that engaging in an action takes time. Spamming verbs (or even worse, using a bot to do it) no matter how many different ones you can justify in a practical sense makes little sense to me.

Since you are familiar with Inferno and I know they use RT's in conjunction with just about everything, consider the repetitive nature of developing skill as a weaponsmith. After heating a forge, you have to go through a process of heating, hammering, tempering, annealing etc. Each of these 'steps' in the process of forging a weapon involve RT. You ARE able to interact via emotes, whispers, says, etc. with other characters. Forging a weapon IRL takes much time, why should it not be so IC?

RT's are extremely useful for combat... of COURSE it takes someone using a polearm longer to attack than someone of equivalent relevant combat skills to use a dirk.

RT's not only allow a MUD to simulate the time element of crafting goods, but they also play a part in the internal game economics and balance issues. If a mage could learn a jillion verbs to advance without any time restraints, you would have instant god characters... without even botting/scripting it for players who for whatever reason, have 60-80 hours a week to devote to building a character. Think of all the +5 Flame enhanced Bastard Swords of instant PK there could be floating around.

RT may be a preventative to keep a player from skilling up... but from doing so too quickly, or in an unrealistic fashion.

How do you propose a PC go about learning a jillion new verbs to skill up? What is the process?

Tedious repetition is part of learning. What makes it tolerable in RL is that at a given skill level, you are not restricted to say, weaving a pair of baby booties for weeks or months.

I don't mind RT's as long as a specified level of skill allows for a sufficiently interesting variety of craftable items, or in the case of combat, a variety of hunting areas/creatures.

#3 I cannot agree with you more. I have played on MUDs where this is true, and others where new development issues that only affect a minority of players take a back seat... for long periods even. (smile)

6) marginal utility is real life. The first candy bar may be delicious and satisfying, but at some point, even one more candy bar will give you no satisfaction. My father caught my brother smoking when we were kids; he used the 'sit down and smoke till you puke right in front of me' method of dealing with it.

RL skills are similar. The writing of someone who is completely illiterate and someone with 6th grade level skills is STARK. The apparent difference in skill between a Ph.D. in English and another who stopped short at a Master's degree is negligible.

In game terms, an herbalist with enough skill to create a minor healing potion is, marginally speaking, far superior to an herbalist with no skill; when comparing a expert herbalist who can mix poisons to an master herbalist who can mix stronger poisons, the marginal utility of the skill has diminished. After all, both are able to create poisons.

Learning does not increase in a linear fashion as you suggest should be the case for a MUD skill. The obvious benefit of such an implementation would be the ability to reach the highest levels of skill more quickly. IMO, needing to take 2-3 years or more IRL to develop a character to a high level in an RP intensive MUD is a good thing. It is more realistic; it weeds out power players in favor or RP players; it encourages more rounded players; and it keeps things interesting for players because there is no 'quick and easy' path to mastery... there is always more to learn. Cool.

11-01-2002, 12:53 AM	#5
Loremaster Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 35	#1 Could you elaborate on your gripe regarding RT's? It seems plausible to me that engaging in an action takes time. Spamming verbs (or even worse, using a bot to do it) no matter how many different ones you can justify in a practical sense makes little sense to me. Since you are familiar with Inferno and I know they use RT's in conjunction with just about everything, consider the repetitive nature of developing skill as a weaponsmith. After heating a forge, you have to go through a process of heating, hammering, tempering, annealing etc. Each of these 'steps' in the process of forging a weapon involve RT. You ARE able to interact via emotes, whispers, says, etc. with other characters. Forging a weapon IRL takes much time, why should it not be so IC? RT's are extremely useful for combat... of COURSE it takes someone using a polearm longer to attack than someone of equivalent relevant combat skills to use a dirk. RT's not only allow a MUD to simulate the time element of crafting goods, but they also play a part in the internal game economics and balance issues. If a mage could learn a jillion verbs to advance without any time restraints, you would have instant god characters... without even botting/scripting it for players who for whatever reason, have 60-80 hours a week to devote to building a character. Think of all the +5 Flame enhanced Bastard Swords of instant PK there could be floating around. RT may be a preventative to keep a player from skilling up... but from doing so too quickly, or in an unrealistic fashion. How do you propose a PC go about learning a jillion new verbs to skill up? What is the process? Tedious repetition is part of learning. What makes it tolerable in RL is that at a given skill level, you are not restricted to say, weaving a pair of baby booties for weeks or months. I don't mind RT's as long as a specified level of skill allows for a sufficiently interesting variety of craftable items, or in the case of combat, a variety of hunting areas/creatures. #3 I cannot agree with you more. I have played on MUDs where this is true, and others where new development issues that only affect a minority of players take a back seat... for long periods even. (smile) 6) marginal utility is real life. The first candy bar may be delicious and satisfying, but at some point, even one more candy bar will give you no satisfaction. My father caught my brother smoking when we were kids; he used the 'sit down and smoke till you puke right in front of me' method of dealing with it. RL skills are similar. The writing of someone who is completely illiterate and someone with 6th grade level skills is STARK. The apparent difference in skill between a Ph.D. in English and another who stopped short at a Master's degree is negligible. In game terms, an herbalist with enough skill to create a minor healing potion is, marginally speaking, far superior to an herbalist with no skill; when comparing a expert herbalist who can mix poisons to an master herbalist who can mix stronger poisons, the marginal utility of the skill has diminished. After all, both are able to create poisons. Learning does not increase in a linear fashion as you suggest should be the case for a MUD skill. The obvious benefit of such an implementation would be the ability to reach the highest levels of skill more quickly. IMO, needing to take 2-3 years or more IRL to develop a character to a high level in an RP intensive MUD is a good thing. It is more realistic; it weeds out power players in favor or RP players; it encourages more rounded players; and it keeps things interesting for players because there is no 'quick and easy' path to mastery... there is always more to learn. Cool.