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dragon master · 09-27-2004, 04:53 PM

Ok, games can have roleplay with levels. It's just that levels are unrealistic and will only cause probelms with roleplay. Why do some roleplaying games have them? Well, these are my reasons.
1. It is pretty much the standard and the mud doesn't feel like changing them.
2. There is a focus on something other than roleplaying(like pk) where levels would provide an advantage.
3. Levels are much simpler to do and the game is not run on a computer( like D&D)

Now, why do levels detract from RP? They are completely unrealistic. Now, maybe it would be possible to make a level-based mud have a realistic level system but I haven't seen it yet. With any level-based mud I've seen, you get levels to get more powerful, but how do you get levels, you kill monsters, maybe solve quests. I can kill a bunch of uber monsters, gain a few levels and be better at picking pockets. But, wait a second, how did I get better at picking pockets if all I did was kill monsters? How do I misteriously learn the "backstab" skill, or whatnot just because I killed enough monsters or solved enough quests.

Maybe a level system could be designed to be realistic but it would need something like a "killing stuff" level where you kill stuff and gain leves that just make you better at "killing stuff" and nothing else, a "thieving level" where you ONLY gain levels by stealing, not by killing monsters and the higher level you are the better you steal... But I have yet to see something set up like this. And gaining levels for good RP shouldn't be done period in my opinion. A player's RP ability is a skill the player has and is therefore completely OOC, this means it shouldn't affect the character's ability at all. Reward the player for the player's RP (i.e. access to cooler races on his next char, etc.), don't reward the character.

In my opinion, for a mud to truly be RP based, the code should be designed to be based on the world, not the other way around. As in, you design a world, then you adapt it as best as possible to the code. You don't code something and try to make a world out of it. When using levels, usually a game takes something that is allready coded and trys to make excuses to cram it into the world rather than looking at the world and coding something different that would fit it. I mean, if somebody wanted to, they can take a completely hack and slash based mud, enforce RP, and create a world based on the existing code of the mud. Would there be RP there? Yes, if the players try hard enough. Would that mean that this mud used a good set up for an RP mud? No.

Roleplaying can exist on any game but not all games are designed to create the best roleplaying setting.

09-27-2004, 04:53 PM	#94
dragon master Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 106	Ok, games can have roleplay with levels. It's just that levels are unrealistic and will only cause probelms with roleplay. Why do some roleplaying games have them? Well, these are my reasons. 1. It is pretty much the standard and the mud doesn't feel like changing them. 2. There is a focus on something other than roleplaying(like pk) where levels would provide an advantage. 3. Levels are much simpler to do and the game is not run on a computer( like D&D) Now, why do levels detract from RP? They are completely unrealistic. Now, maybe it would be possible to make a level-based mud have a realistic level system but I haven't seen it yet. With any level-based mud I've seen, you get levels to get more powerful, but how do you get levels, you kill monsters, maybe solve quests. I can kill a bunch of uber monsters, gain a few levels and be better at picking pockets. But, wait a second, how did I get better at picking pockets if all I did was kill monsters? How do I misteriously learn the "backstab" skill, or whatnot just because I killed enough monsters or solved enough quests. Maybe a level system could be designed to be realistic but it would need something like a "killing stuff" level where you kill stuff and gain leves that just make you better at "killing stuff" and nothing else, a "thieving level" where you ONLY gain levels by stealing, not by killing monsters and the higher level you are the better you steal... But I have yet to see something set up like this. And gaining levels for good RP shouldn't be done period in my opinion. A player's RP ability is a skill the player has and is therefore completely OOC, this means it shouldn't affect the character's ability at all. Reward the player for the player's RP (i.e. access to cooler races on his next char, etc.), don't reward the character. In my opinion, for a mud to truly be RP based, the code should be designed to be based on the world, not the other way around. As in, you design a world, then you adapt it as best as possible to the code. You don't code something and try to make a world out of it. When using levels, usually a game takes something that is allready coded and trys to make excuses to cram it into the world rather than looking at the world and coding something different that would fit it. I mean, if somebody wanted to, they can take a completely hack and slash based mud, enforce RP, and create a world based on the existing code of the mud. Would there be RP there? Yes, if the players try hard enough. Would that mean that this mud used a good set up for an RP mud? No. Roleplaying can exist on any game but not all games are designed to create the best roleplaying setting.