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visko · 09-27-2003, 12:03 PM

Some of this discussion parallels the old war between yui and angelbob about which is better, c or c++...

Yui took the position that 50 mediocre programmers working on the same project in C++ (which is apparently easier to learn and use...) would, given similar work days, produce a lot more viable code than 1 brilliant C++ or C programmer working equivalent hours (to one of the mediocre programmers, assumedly).

The parallel is builders v. coders for MUDs. Now, my friends and I have always made a distinction with regards to coding: patch monkeys, and generally people who add in the freely distributedcode of others, add color options to their channels, and then use specslay or other kid-toys to increase the "variety of their imm powers" don't count as coders. They just dont.

That being said, there aren't a whole lot of coders out there. I'm not going to get into the argument of who is more/less motivated on average, builders or coders; for now lets assume that the interest and motivation is similar enough not to be discussed.

If I hire 20 13-year-olds, set them on a separate port, give them a few nifty toys on the main site with their mortals, and tell them to go build, chances are I'll have 10-20 crappy but workable areas in the same time as I would have had 1 really good area from 1 really good builder who I managed to coerce into building for me. Possibly less time; crappy areas don't exactly take months to kick out.

I take those 20 areas, rotate the builders, let them all play with each others' areas and tell them that they all get "in-game benefits" from making the areas acceptable for the pbase....

And in a slightly longer period of time than it takes a good builder to create 1 or 2 areas, I have 20 usable ones.

I'm not a fan of quantity over quality normally. But in a situation where it's obvious that you can mass-produce mediocrity and approximate good work, why not? (I wouldn't PAY for it most likely, but I'd figure out something the builders consider worthwhile.) Hephos is just working a numbers game at the moment; grab 2000 builders, get 1 in 200 areas usable for your MUD, and you have 10 new areas lickety split. Plus, other areas from the pool that seem to have potential can get emails back to their creators saying keep up the good work, and you will eventually get money too.

I wouldn't do it. I'm not sure I'm completely opposed to it though; especially for a commercial enterprise, it sounds like a smart way of doing things. The NDA and retention of copyright needs to be played with more, from what I've seen, but the rest of the idea is fine.

Besides. Hephos's "ethical ambiguities" strike me as relatively minor when compared with current major businesses we're reading about in the news lately.

-Visko

Quick edit:

P.S. Crappy coders crash things, and unless you're INCREDIBLY lucky and have free unlimited hosting, or a nice fat checkbook, you probably don't have a separate development port (although you should, all of you out there.) Much more painful things happen when you crash MUDs as opposed to just putting in a bunch of idiotic areas with typos.

09-27-2003, 12:03 PM	#46
visko Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 98	Some of this discussion parallels the old war between yui and angelbob about which is better, c or c++... Yui took the position that 50 mediocre programmers working on the same project in C++ (which is apparently easier to learn and use...) would, given similar work days, produce a lot more viable code than 1 brilliant C++ or C programmer working equivalent hours (to one of the mediocre programmers, assumedly). The parallel is builders v. coders for MUDs. Now, my friends and I have always made a distinction with regards to coding: patch monkeys, and generally people who add in the freely distributedcode of others, add color options to their channels, and then use specslay or other kid-toys to increase the "variety of their imm powers" don't count as coders. They just dont. That being said, there aren't a whole lot of coders out there. I'm not going to get into the argument of who is more/less motivated on average, builders or coders; for now lets assume that the interest and motivation is similar enough not to be discussed. If I hire 20 13-year-olds, set them on a separate port, give them a few nifty toys on the main site with their mortals, and tell them to go build, chances are I'll have 10-20 crappy but workable areas in the same time as I would have had 1 really good area from 1 really good builder who I managed to coerce into building for me. Possibly less time; crappy areas don't exactly take months to kick out. I take those 20 areas, rotate the builders, let them all play with each others' areas and tell them that they all get "in-game benefits" from making the areas acceptable for the pbase.... And in a slightly longer period of time than it takes a good builder to create 1 or 2 areas, I have 20 usable ones. I'm not a fan of quantity over quality normally. But in a situation where it's obvious that you can mass-produce mediocrity and approximate good work, why not? (I wouldn't PAY for it most likely, but I'd figure out something the builders consider worthwhile.) Hephos is just working a numbers game at the moment; grab 2000 builders, get 1 in 200 areas usable for your MUD, and you have 10 new areas lickety split. Plus, other areas from the pool that seem to have potential can get emails back to their creators saying keep up the good work, and you will eventually get money too. I wouldn't do it. I'm not sure I'm completely opposed to it though; especially for a commercial enterprise, it sounds like a smart way of doing things. The NDA and retention of copyright needs to be played with more, from what I've seen, but the rest of the idea is fine. Besides. Hephos's "ethical ambiguities" strike me as relatively minor when compared with current major businesses we're reading about in the news lately. -Visko Quick edit: P.S. Crappy coders crash things, and unless you're INCREDIBLY lucky and have free unlimited hosting, or a nice fat checkbook, you probably don't have a separate development port (although you should, all of you out there.) Much more painful things happen when you crash MUDs as opposed to just putting in a bunch of idiotic areas with typos.