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Earthmother · 06-14-2005, 12:35 PM

For me, there is a *significant* difference in the type of "Role Play" that is 'intended' when you talk about a levelless, RPI environment as opposed to a game that calls itself RPE.

It is more than a semantic difference, it is a tonal difference in the Game itself. RPI/M MU*s afford a great deal more interaction between Gods and Mortals, and those interactions forge the world. A player walking onto an RPI, after being approved, knows that they will have the opportunity to immediately and in the long term impact the Game, the landscape, the economy, the history, and many other aspects of the Game without ever becoming a God/Builder/Coder/Imm.

When walking onto an RPE MU*, these assumptions don't hold.

On an RPE, the type of 'pose' RP that is 'mandatory' in a levelless system is moot. Players do *NOT*, nor will they ever have the opportunity to impact the direction of the Game's world through their poses. RPE means that there is a world, and players are encouraged to pick a role within the game, and live UP to it. The roles are pre-defined: classes, races, guilds, whatever... this structure is THERE. A player must learn to 'fill out' the Game's 'intent'.

On an RPE, player interaction with the GAME ITSELF becomes the role-play. The Game's success and continuation does not rely on players being online together to make sure it exists. Players breathe daily life into these worlds, but are NOT the world itself. The CODE is the World... players come to be a PART of it, not the entire thing. Players who want to Role-Play in this environment learn to work within the Game's structure, they learn that they are NOT the center of the action. Their Role-Play is a *different type of RP* than what is INTENDED in a world where poses create the action.

"Encouraging" RP simply means that players can take one of the pre-defined roles, and breathe life into it. It does NOT mean, "you will be able to Role Play immersively here." Players who RP in an RPE give a sense of depth to the code. But the GAME ITSELF exists outside of the players.

Immersive or Mandatory RP games are a *completely* different type of situation. People who are used to fully immersive RP will *never* find this type of experience on an RPE MU*. Gods are hard-coding, not interacting or reading logs of player interaction to see what direction the world is taking at that point in time. This does NOT mean that Role Play is NOT being 'encouraged.'

It is, but the RP is a _different type_ of RP.

Yes, the players are only given a 'toolkit.' But it is a disservice to act like the RP found on RPE's is "not really RP." Players who USE the toolkit CAN end up painting the Sistine Chapel. The difference is, on an RPI, that Chapel tends to be the entire world, whereas in an RPE, that Chapel is ONLY the PC itself.

That does NOT mean that Role Play is NOT 'encouraged.' There may not be a carrot on a stick for doing so, this is true. But I *GUARANTEE YOU* that there is Role Play involved in ANY HnS game. That is *specifically* why there ARE races and classes... so that people can BE SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT IN REAL LIFE.

The definition people who are used to RPI use for 'role play' is so very limited. There is only one type of 'real' role play for them, the fully immersive pose type. This is because that type of RP affords a LOT of leeway and control over the direction of the PC as well as the Game itself. Players in RPE worlds know that their RP is NOT going have control over the direction of the world. They accept that fact, and play the role they are handed at character creation. They are content with that.

Any RPE that wants to 'encourage' more RP has to give players the opportunity to grow and fill out the framework they're given at character creation. There have to be options and various directions. They can even reward those players who actually 'role play' to a higher standard within the confines of the enviornment.

For people who are used to the freedom RP immersive worlds afford, this is a vexing and limiting situation. I understand the frustrations with it. It would be wise, however, for immersive players to UNDERSTAND that the *type* of RP they are looking for is not what RPE games afford.

But dog GONE it, that does not make the RP found on RPE games of a lesser quality. It is merely a much more rare phenomenon, and is a darn sight tougher to accomplish, because the Game LIMITS, by definition, how much impact any given PC will have. An RPE RP'er will have to live up to the hard code's intent. An Immersive player gets to forge, an Encouraged player gets to fulfill.

06-14-2005, 12:35 PM	#8
Earthmother Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Home MUD: GateWay MUD Posts: 68	For me, there is a significant difference in the type of "Role Play" that is 'intended' when you talk about a levelless, RPI environment as opposed to a game that calls itself RPE. It is more than a semantic difference, it is a tonal difference in the Game itself. RPI/M MUs afford a great deal more interaction between Gods and Mortals, and those interactions forge the world. A player walking onto an RPI, after being approved, knows that they will have the opportunity to immediately and in the long term impact the Game, the landscape, the economy, the history, and many other aspects of the Game without ever becoming a God/Builder/Coder/Imm. When walking onto an RPE MU, these assumptions don't hold. On an RPE, the type of 'pose' RP that is 'mandatory' in a levelless system is moot. Players do NOT, nor will they ever have the opportunity to impact the direction of the Game's world through their poses. RPE means that there is a world, and players are encouraged to pick a role within the game, and live UP to it. The roles are pre-defined: classes, races, guilds, whatever... this structure is THERE. A player must learn to 'fill out' the Game's 'intent'. On an RPE, player interaction with the GAME ITSELF becomes the role-play. The Game's success and continuation does not rely on players being online together to make sure it exists. Players breathe daily life into these worlds, but are NOT the world itself. The CODE is the World... players come to be a PART of it, not the entire thing. Players who want to Role-Play in this environment learn to work within the Game's structure, they learn that they are NOT the center of the action. Their Role-Play is a different type of RP than what is INTENDED in a world where poses create the action. "Encouraging" RP simply means that players can take one of the pre-defined roles, and breathe life into it. It does NOT mean, "you will be able to Role Play immersively here." Players who RP in an RPE give a sense of depth to the code. But the GAME ITSELF exists outside of the players. Immersive or Mandatory RP games are a completely different type of situation. People who are used to fully immersive RP will never find this type of experience on an RPE MU. Gods are hard-coding, not interacting or reading logs of player interaction to see what direction the world is taking at that point in time. This does NOT mean that Role Play is NOT being 'encouraged.' It is, but the RP is a _different type_ of RP. Yes, the players are only given a 'toolkit.' But it is a disservice to act like the RP found on RPE's is "not really RP." Players who USE the toolkit CAN end up painting the Sistine Chapel. The difference is, on an RPI, that Chapel tends to be the entire world, whereas in an RPE, that Chapel is ONLY the PC itself. That does NOT mean that Role Play is NOT 'encouraged.' There may not be a carrot on a stick for doing so, this is true. But I GUARANTEE YOU* that there is Role Play involved in ANY HnS game. That is specifically why there ARE races and classes... so that people can BE SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT IN REAL LIFE. The definition people who are used to RPI use for 'role play' is so very limited. There is only one type of 'real' role play for them, the fully immersive pose type. This is because that type of RP affords a LOT of leeway and control over the direction of the PC as well as the Game itself. Players in RPE worlds know that their RP is NOT going have control over the direction of the world. They accept that fact, and play the role they are handed at character creation. They are content with that. Any RPE that wants to 'encourage' more RP has to give players the opportunity to grow and fill out the framework they're given at character creation. There have to be options and various directions. They can even reward those players who actually 'role play' to a higher standard within the confines of the enviornment. For people who are used to the freedom RP immersive worlds afford, this is a vexing and limiting situation. I understand the frustrations with it. It would be wise, however, for immersive players to UNDERSTAND that the type of RP they are looking for is not what RPE games afford. But dog GONE it, that does not make the RP found on RPE games of a lesser quality. It is merely a much more rare phenomenon, and is a darn sight tougher to accomplish, because the Game LIMITS, by definition, how much impact any given PC will have. An RPE RP'er will have to live up to the hard code's intent. An Immersive player gets to forge, an Encouraged player gets to fulfill.