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the_logos · 10-10-2002, 12:34 AM

It's not that you openly claim to represent the masses. It's that you automatically seem to assume, based on a handful of posts by a handful of people, that the thousands of users of this site have X position. Keep in mind that the posters to these forums represent a tiny fraction of the users of the site, and have no claim to representing the views of anyone but themselves. Not only can we posters here not validly claim to represent the views of others, but one can't even truthfully claim that the posters here are a statistically valid sample of the rest of the posters, as a valid sample requires a minimum of self-selection, and the posters here are entirely self-selected. It's why polls like the ones here are absolutely and utterly meaningless (something we may actually seem to agree upon, believe it or not). To run a poll that can provide useful information, you need to either survey the entire population (or quite close), or survey a randomly selected sub-segment of that population. The polls here do neither, which isn't a slam on them, but is an indictment of their usefulness for anything other than entertainment.

I have no problem at all with a labeling of "commercial" (though I think any MUD that takes donations should also be labeled that way unless they can prove that every dollar they've taken in has been spent solely on hosting), but the fact is, we're not pay-to-play. You -never- have to pay to play Achaea. Ever. There's just no way to quibble with that fact. It's like saying that a grocery store is pay-to-browse. It's not. You go in, you stay pretty much as long as you want (they might kick you out for loitering, but we're much nicer than that, even though it costs us money for every minute you spend there), and, IF you choose, you purchase things.

Now, you want a commercial (or pay-to-play, though again, we're not pay-to-play) indicator because you think that's the piece of info people care most about. I'm just saying, "Show me these people." There are a lot of site visitors, and there doesn't seem to be any big cry for this extra info. Just a few people posting they'd like it. Similarly, I'd like to see a PK indicator, and a codebase indicator. I generally don't play non-custom MUDs, and never MUDs without PK. The cost doesn't matter to me. A few other people have posted that they too find other information more useful than pay-to-play. Now, let's say for the sake of argument that 20 people post they want the commercial indicator and 10 post saying they want a PK indicator. What's that mean? Nothing really. It's an almost meaningless segment of the userbase of the site, because, as I explained earlier, there's no way the attitudes of the users of this site generally with the miniscule minority that frequents these forums.

I really have no objection to it. It just seems like it's a really arbitrary piece of info to put up there.
--matt

10-10-2002, 12:34 AM	#11
the_logos Legend Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mill Valley, California Posts: 2,305	It's not that you openly claim to represent the masses. It's that you automatically seem to assume, based on a handful of posts by a handful of people, that the thousands of users of this site have X position. Keep in mind that the posters to these forums represent a tiny fraction of the users of the site, and have no claim to representing the views of anyone but themselves. Not only can we posters here not validly claim to represent the views of others, but one can't even truthfully claim that the posters here are a statistically valid sample of the rest of the posters, as a valid sample requires a minimum of self-selection, and the posters here are entirely self-selected. It's why polls like the ones here are absolutely and utterly meaningless (something we may actually seem to agree upon, believe it or not). To run a poll that can provide useful information, you need to either survey the entire population (or quite close), or survey a randomly selected sub-segment of that population. The polls here do neither, which isn't a slam on them, but is an indictment of their usefulness for anything other than entertainment. I have no problem at all with a labeling of "commercial" (though I think any MUD that takes donations should also be labeled that way unless they can prove that every dollar they've taken in has been spent solely on hosting), but the fact is, we're not pay-to-play. You -never- have to pay to play Achaea. Ever. There's just no way to quibble with that fact. It's like saying that a grocery store is pay-to-browse. It's not. You go in, you stay pretty much as long as you want (they might kick you out for loitering, but we're much nicer than that, even though it costs us money for every minute you spend there), and, IF you choose, you purchase things. Now, you want a commercial (or pay-to-play, though again, we're not pay-to-play) indicator because you think that's the piece of info people care most about. I'm just saying, "Show me these people." There are a lot of site visitors, and there doesn't seem to be any big cry for this extra info. Just a few people posting they'd like it. Similarly, I'd like to see a PK indicator, and a codebase indicator. I generally don't play non-custom MUDs, and never MUDs without PK. The cost doesn't matter to me. A few other people have posted that they too find other information more useful than pay-to-play. Now, let's say for the sake of argument that 20 people post they want the commercial indicator and 10 post saying they want a PK indicator. What's that mean? Nothing really. It's an almost meaningless segment of the userbase of the site, because, as I explained earlier, there's no way the attitudes of the users of this site generally with the miniscule minority that frequents these forums. I really have no objection to it. It just seems like it's a really arbitrary piece of info to put up there. --matt