Top Mud Sites Forum - View Single Post

KaVir · 11-30-2004, 08:46 AM

Around a month ago I implemented a Talent system, primarily inspired by the D&D feats. It was only really intended to add a little flavour to characters, allowing people to better differentiate themselves from each other, but it's actually proved quite popular and so I've expanded it somewhat. However while doing so, I've come to realise that it would actually lend itself extremely well to an alternative way of supporting races.

The basic premise is very simple - unlike skills, each talent is a boolean, so you either have it or you don't. However each talent also has a series of requirements that must first be met (much like a skill web), so players don't get overwhelmed with a huge selection, nor can they just select the better talents without first fulfilling the requirements. Here's an example to give a better idea:

[code] --------------------------------[ IRON FISTS ]---------------------------------
Talent availability ; You already have this talent.
Method of purchase ; During gameplay or character creation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Required stats ; Brawn 6+, Mettle 6+, Discipline 6+
Required skills ; Unarmed 75+
Required styles ; Crab 75+
Required talents ; Unarmed Mastery and Mind Over Matter
Banned talents ; None
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This talent improves your unarmed hand damage by +1 for each point of Brawn you
have (added as if it were a natural weapon bonus - but only for bare hands, not
for claws or when wearing gloves or gauntlets). It also allows you to block
melee attacks as if you were wearing bracers, and grants you a natural armour
of 25% on your hands and arms (stackable with Toughness and other armour in the
normal way).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/quote]

Extending this to a race system could be done under the assumption that all characters are human, unless they specifically choose otherwise. Note that humans in D&D start with a free feat, so it could almost be said that D&D does this to a point already. However my suggestion is that races could be treated in exactly the same way - with requirements, banned talents, and so on. Of course such talents would only be selectable during character creation, but then so would various other talents (Ambidextrous, Dark Lineage, Twisted Upbringing, etc), so that's already being catered for.

For example you could say that an 'Elf' talent requires a strength of no more than 16 and an agility of at least 12. You could give them the requirement that they have the longbow and longsword skills at at least a certain level (reflecting their natural proficiency) and prevent them from also having one of the other racial talents (dwarf, halfling, etc). Elves could then receive certain special benefits such as bonuses to certain skills, night vision, extended lifespan, and so on. You could also provide drawbacks (weaker bones, less stamina, etc) if the benefits became too great, to help balance the race out.

Alternatively you might decide you want elves to be more powerful than the other races - in which case you could have an 'Elven Blood' talent which, on its own, would make you a half-elf. But buying that would then unlock the 'Elf' talent, allowing you to become a full elf. You could even add further options such as 'Wood Elf', 'High Elf', 'Drow', all of which would require you to first have 'Elf' (which, alone, would represent a standard type of elf rather than one of the rarer and more powerful bloodlines).

The same logic would of course extend to other races - so you could have 'Dwarf' (assumed to be a Hill Dwarf, perhaps receiving a bonus with axes and more hitpoints), which would then let you unlock 'Mountain Dwarf' (gaining additional mining and forging skills), etc.

You could even allow crossover races - perhaps a 'Dwelf' talent which requires you to have either the 'Dwarf' or 'Elven Blood' talent, and which then gives you a mixture of bonuses from both (or allows you to purchase some/all talents from either list).

You might then decide that some races were naturally weaker - a "Hobbit" or "Halfling" might simply receive some stealth and dexterity bonuses, but not have any further expansion talents available.

Additional racial abilities could also be handled through this. For example a 'fire breathing' talent available to a dragon-like race, or a 'forge mithril' which dwarves could learn, or an 'underground sense' which could only be developed by dwarves and gnomes. Other special conditions such as vampirism or lycanthropy could also be handled this way, without interfering with races in any way.

Obviously this would also mean that humans were the weakest of all, from a pure racial point of view - but it wouldn't matter because they'd also have more talents in other areas. Perhaps you've picked 'Elven Blood', 'Elf' and 'Drow', giving you bonuses in combat as well as a range of natural magical abilities - but for those three talent slots I could give my human Curved Sword Mastery, Assassin Training and Magically Gifted, allowing me to pretty much match you. Of course I'd be an exceptional human, while you'd be a standard drow, but balance-wise we'd be fairly well matched.

If you really dislike the idea of all humans being weaker, you could add 'High Man' (as per Lord of the Rings) or somesuch as another racial option, or you could have 'standard human' as a basic option and give each player one free racial talent (so that the more powerful races would still need to spend more points). A third option would be to make the initial racial talents free, but give them as many drawbacks as benefits.

The thing I like about this idea is that it makes races easier to balance (because you can break them down into smaller parts), while removing the requirement that all races be of equal power (something which often doesn't make sense from an RP perspective). It also makes humans just as viable as the other races, rather than being the jack-of-all-trades that never gets picked. Sure, the High Elves might be great mages - but so is a human who has spent those three talent slots on Magically Gifted, Channelling and Enhanced Spell Damage.

Such an approach is extremely simple to implement, but unfortunately it completely undermines the racial system used by every other mud I've seen, so I can't really see any mud converting across. However for a custom mud it could certainly prove an interesting avenue to explore. Unfortunately it's not something that really fits the theme of what I'm working on, but I thought I might share it anyway in case anyone else is interested or would like to comment.

11-30-2004, 08:46 AM	#1
KaVir Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Name: Richard Home MUD: God Wars II Posts: 2,052	Around a month ago I implemented a Talent system, primarily inspired by the D&D feats. It was only really intended to add a little flavour to characters, allowing people to better differentiate themselves from each other, but it's actually proved quite popular and so I've expanded it somewhat. However while doing so, I've come to realise that it would actually lend itself extremely well to an alternative way of supporting races. The basic premise is very simple - unlike skills, each talent is a boolean, so you either have it or you don't. However each talent also has a series of requirements that must first be met (much like a skill web), so players don't get overwhelmed with a huge selection, nor can they just select the better talents without first fulfilling the requirements. Here's an example to give a better idea: [code] --------------------------------[ IRON FISTS ]--------------------------------- Talent availability ; You already have this talent. Method of purchase ; During gameplay or character creation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Required stats ; Brawn 6+, Mettle 6+, Discipline 6+ Required skills ; Unarmed 75+ Required styles ; Crab 75+ Required talents ; Unarmed Mastery and Mind Over Matter Banned talents ; None ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This talent improves your unarmed hand damage by +1 for each point of Brawn you have (added as if it were a natural weapon bonus - but only for bare hands, not for claws or when wearing gloves or gauntlets). It also allows you to block melee attacks as if you were wearing bracers, and grants you a natural armour of 25% on your hands and arms (stackable with Toughness and other armour in the normal way). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/quote] Extending this to a race system could be done under the assumption that all characters are human, unless they specifically choose otherwise. Note that humans in D&D start with a free feat, so it could almost be said that D&D does this to a point already. However my suggestion is that races could be treated in exactly the same way - with requirements, banned talents, and so on. Of course such talents would only be selectable during character creation, but then so would various other talents (Ambidextrous, Dark Lineage, Twisted Upbringing, etc), so that's already being catered for. For example you could say that an 'Elf' talent requires a strength of no more than 16 and an agility of at least 12. You could give them the requirement that they have the longbow and longsword skills at at least a certain level (reflecting their natural proficiency) and prevent them from also having one of the other racial talents (dwarf, halfling, etc). Elves could then receive certain special benefits such as bonuses to certain skills, night vision, extended lifespan, and so on. You could also provide drawbacks (weaker bones, less stamina, etc) if the benefits became too great, to help balance the race out. Alternatively you might decide you want elves to be more powerful than the other races - in which case you could have an 'Elven Blood' talent which, on its own, would make you a half-elf. But buying that would then unlock the 'Elf' talent, allowing you to become a full elf. You could even add further options such as 'Wood Elf', 'High Elf', 'Drow', all of which would require you to first have 'Elf' (which, alone, would represent a standard type of elf rather than one of the rarer and more powerful bloodlines). The same logic would of course extend to other races - so you could have 'Dwarf' (assumed to be a Hill Dwarf, perhaps receiving a bonus with axes and more hitpoints), which would then let you unlock 'Mountain Dwarf' (gaining additional mining and forging skills), etc. You could even allow crossover races - perhaps a 'Dwelf' talent which requires you to have either the 'Dwarf' or 'Elven Blood' talent, and which then gives you a mixture of bonuses from both (or allows you to purchase some/all talents from either list). You might then decide that some races were naturally weaker - a "Hobbit" or "Halfling" might simply receive some stealth and dexterity bonuses, but not have any further expansion talents available. Additional racial abilities could also be handled through this. For example a 'fire breathing' talent available to a dragon-like race, or a 'forge mithril' which dwarves could learn, or an 'underground sense' which could only be developed by dwarves and gnomes. Other special conditions such as vampirism or lycanthropy could also be handled this way, without interfering with races in any way. Obviously this would also mean that humans were the weakest of all, from a pure racial point of view - but it wouldn't matter because they'd also have more talents in other areas. Perhaps you've picked 'Elven Blood', 'Elf' and 'Drow', giving you bonuses in combat as well as a range of natural magical abilities - but for those three talent slots I could give my human Curved Sword Mastery, Assassin Training and Magically Gifted, allowing me to pretty much match you. Of course I'd be an exceptional human, while you'd be a standard drow, but balance-wise we'd be fairly well matched. If you really dislike the idea of all humans being weaker, you could add 'High Man' (as per Lord of the Rings) or somesuch as another racial option, or you could have 'standard human' as a basic option and give each player one free racial talent (so that the more powerful races would still need to spend more points). A third option would be to make the initial racial talents free, but give them as many drawbacks as benefits. The thing I like about this idea is that it makes races easier to balance (because you can break them down into smaller parts), while removing the requirement that all races be of equal power (something which often doesn't make sense from an RP perspective). It also makes humans just as viable as the other races, rather than being the jack-of-all-trades that never gets picked. Sure, the High Elves might be great mages - but so is a human who has spent those three talent slots on Magically Gifted, Channelling and Enhanced Spell Damage. Such an approach is extremely simple to implement, but unfortunately it completely undermines the racial system used by every other mud I've seen, so I can't really see any mud converting across. However for a custom mud it could certainly prove an interesting avenue to explore. Unfortunately it's not something that really fits the theme of what I'm working on, but I thought I might share it anyway in case anyone else is interested or would like to comment.