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Atyreus · 03-02-2004, 11:14 AM

I agree completely. My point is that sometimes when players are given their stats in english they may interpret this to be a permissible IC reference to their in-game talents and abilities, when in fact such a reference may not be appropriate at all.

Still, you have a potential situation in which stats could be referred to inappropriately. For example, say you have an agility attribute that breaks down as follows:

1-4: You are extremely clumsy.
5-8: You are a bit of a klutz.
9-12: You aren't exceptionally agile, but then again, you aren't tripping over your own feet either.
13-16: You are very agile.
17-20: You are freakishly agile.

Unless you have some sort of rule in place like "There will never be any IC references made to your character's abilities whatsoever" you will inevitably get situations like this:

Foo says, "I really should take up knife fighting, after all I'm freakishly agile."
Larry says, "Really? I'm just very agile. I'm freakishly strong though."

In this case the english has just become a substitute for numerical values and would sound just as inappropriate in an RP enforced setting. True, if Foo knows he has an agility of 18, he may still find some way to discuss this inappropriately IC, but unless he's really dense, he knows he can't just say, "I really should take up knife fighting, after all I have an 18 agility."

Ideally, in an RP setting most players will know that you just don't talk about your character's abilities in certain ways (basically in any way that sounds like you could be describing a game piece). I just question what seems to be the assumption among many administrators of RP-enforced games that hiding the numbers actually contributes to the RP environment. I don't really know if the situation described above is common or significant enough to make any case that hiding numbers is detrimental in any way (and I doubt it is), but I do suspect that you could give players of RPIs their stats in purely numerical form without it detracting from anyone's ability to immerse themselves in the game.

The main argument against this would probably be that showing the numbers in some way places more importance on the numbers and perhaps gives the players more of an impression that the game is about numbers. My response to this would be that if numbers ARE important in a game, a significant portion of your playerbase will play with an eye to number improvement whether or not that is the stated (or even acceptable) goal of the game and whether or not they are allowed to see the exact numbers involved.

I think the only real argument for hiding numbers in RP enforced games (particularly RPIs) is simply because so many players now have an expectation that that is how it is done. But in such a case, you aren't really improving the RP environment so much as simply offering a feature set that caters to the expectations of players that are generally drawn to that sort of environment.

03-02-2004, 11:14 AM	#29
Atyreus Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Home MUD: The Dreaming City Posts: 60	I agree completely. My point is that sometimes when players are given their stats in english they may interpret this to be a permissible IC reference to their in-game talents and abilities, when in fact such a reference may not be appropriate at all. Still, you have a potential situation in which stats could be referred to inappropriately. For example, say you have an agility attribute that breaks down as follows: 1-4: You are extremely clumsy. 5-8: You are a bit of a klutz. 9-12: You aren't exceptionally agile, but then again, you aren't tripping over your own feet either. 13-16: You are very agile. 17-20: You are freakishly agile. Unless you have some sort of rule in place like "There will never be any IC references made to your character's abilities whatsoever" you will inevitably get situations like this: Foo says, "I really should take up knife fighting, after all I'm freakishly agile." Larry says, "Really? I'm just very agile. I'm freakishly strong though." In this case the english has just become a substitute for numerical values and would sound just as inappropriate in an RP enforced setting. True, if Foo knows he has an agility of 18, he may still find some way to discuss this inappropriately IC, but unless he's really dense, he knows he can't just say, "I really should take up knife fighting, after all I have an 18 agility." Ideally, in an RP setting most players will know that you just don't talk about your character's abilities in certain ways (basically in any way that sounds like you could be describing a game piece). I just question what seems to be the assumption among many administrators of RP-enforced games that hiding the numbers actually contributes to the RP environment. I don't really know if the situation described above is common or significant enough to make any case that hiding numbers is detrimental in any way (and I doubt it is), but I do suspect that you could give players of RPIs their stats in purely numerical form without it detracting from anyone's ability to immerse themselves in the game. The main argument against this would probably be that showing the numbers in some way places more importance on the numbers and perhaps gives the players more of an impression that the game is about numbers. My response to this would be that if numbers ARE important in a game, a significant portion of your playerbase will play with an eye to number improvement whether or not that is the stated (or even acceptable) goal of the game and whether or not they are allowed to see the exact numbers involved. I think the only real argument for hiding numbers in RP enforced games (particularly RPIs) is simply because so many players now have an expectation that that is how it is done. But in such a case, you aren't really improving the RP environment so much as simply offering a feature set that caters to the expectations of players that are generally drawn to that sort of environment.