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Old 08-14-2003, 12:36 PM   #1
Ebony
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Wink

This story occured around four months ago on Achaea, and resulted in me stopping playing Achaea for around three months.
I had just finished my (rather extensive) interview and had been accepted fully into the Paladin's Guild. After a somewhat embarassing meeting with some possible mentors, I had ended up being taken on by Meadlin, a dwarven knight who had already taught me some lessons, one's which still serve me well (they involve not ****ing off your guild elders). Anyway, he had asked me some basic questions about my level, skills, etc., and told me he wanted me to work on getting a little bit stronger so I could learn some technique or other in Chivalry. That was the last time I saw him.
I returned to Achaea two more times without seeing him before I found out what had happened. Only a few moments after I materialized at Fish Street (a common corssroads in my city), a dwarven knight asked me if my knight-master had returned to the order. Puzzled, I asked when he left.
As it turned out, Meadlin had apparently betrayed not only the guild, but also Pentharian, our divine patron, and possibly Shallam, the city (it wasn't clear to me; I was rather dazed). Although it took only few moments for me to go from "Ebony, Squire of Meadlin" to 'Errant Squire Ebony", I was rather struck. I got another knight-master rather quickly, but I dropped out of Achaea, because Meadlin ahd been one my guildmates I admired the most.
Now my new knight-master, Calis, has turned out to be a great guy, and I have returned to Achaea, but this is still an event that taints my relations with my guild, even if only in my mind.
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Old 08-14-2003, 01:13 PM   #2
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Why? Who cares what he did, it's not like you are in character or anything. After all you are aware about your level, experience, and you have no s/l/m descriptions on that mud. It isn't a roleplaying mud. If this affected your emotions in real life you need to take a step back and look at yourself in the mirror, muds and games shouldn't do that. Maybe it will affect your character, but don't **** yourself off IRL over something trivial and retarded that happened in a game world.

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Old 08-14-2003, 03:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Delerak @ Aug. 14 2003,13:13)
Why?  Who cares what he did, it's not like you are in character or anything.  After all you are aware about your level, experience, and you have no s/l/m descriptions on that mud.  It isn't a roleplaying mud.  If this affected your emotions in real life you need to take a step back and look at yourself in the mirror, muds and games shouldn't do that.  Maybe it will affect your character, but don't **** yourself off IRL over something trivial and retarded that happened in a game world.

-Delerak
Muds are not "roleplaying" or "not roleplaying". It's not black and white. You can ever find people roleplaying occasionally on Everquest though you have to look for it.

I also have to say I'm not sure how what he's discussing isn't roleplaying. Guild and religious betrayal, etc. Seems very in-role to me since the only way to betray those things is to accept the roleplaying aspect of them in the first place (else there's nothing to betray).

And I don't know about you, but if I wasn't affected in real life by playing muds, I wouldn't bother playing them. I get happy, I get sad, I get angry, I get protective, etc. The ability to arouse those emotions is what has always attracted me to muds and what are one of the most interesting aspects, imho. Even in a single-player game, the highest compliment I can pay to it is that it was able to arouse strong emotions in me. Game developers often use Steve Meretzky's first Infocom text game Planetfall as one of the greatest games ever because the emotional attachment the game was able to build in you towards Floyd, your robot sidekick, was absolutely profound. The game is legendary for that, in fact. (and three cheers for text too)

--matt
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Old 08-14-2003, 03:32 PM   #4
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This story is one similar to many I encountered in the rp-enforced games I played.  It is extrememly frustrating to me to see people give up on characters that have events like this happen to them because the character does not turn out the way they orginally envisoned.  Hopefully, now that you are back playing the game, you are able to embrace the things that have happened and incoprorate them into your playing style.  Personally, I think playing a character with a tarnished name, even if it was through no fault of my own,  struggling to prove themself is much more interesting than playing a standard apprentice that has very few ways to involve themselves with others.  Best of luck, and I would enjoy hearing more of the story as it unfolds.
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Old 08-14-2003, 08:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Tavish @ Aug. 14 2003,15:32)
This story is one similar to many I encountered in the rp-enforced games I played.  It is extrememly frustrating to me to see people give up on characters that have events like this happen to them because the character does not turn out the way they orginally envisoned.  Hopefully, now that you are back playing the game, you are able to embrace the things that have happened and incoprorate them into your playing style.  Personally, I think playing a character with a tarnished name, even if it was through no fault of my own,  struggling to prove themself is much more interesting than playing a standard apprentice that has very few ways to involve themselves with others.  Best of luck, and I would enjoy hearing more of the story as it unfolds.
I completely agree with this. I think what people who are trying to play a role in a mud need to accept is that the simple fact that they're playing in a world, and that things are going to happen to their character that they didn't anticipate. The essence of roleplaying is dealing with these changes, I think, and I bet the fellow who started this thread is going to end up finding out that his own personal story is made more interesting because of it.

--matt
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Old 08-14-2003, 11:55 PM   #6
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Are you one of those guys who cries at movies? Sorry not much room for emotion for me. Just the way I am built, I never had strong emotions about anything, but gaming and roleplaying is the only thing that I can embrace, not because it brings emotions out, it is the competition that I like, and roleplaying is a way to escape reality and become someone else, and to act out their emotions but not feel them myself. If you are feeling emotions from a character you are playing, then you are a little more sensitive then me. Heh.

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Old 08-15-2003, 03:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Delerak @ Aug. 14 2003,23:55)
Are you one of those guys who cries at movies? Sorry not much room for emotion for me.  Just the way I am built, I never had strong emotions about anything, but gaming and roleplaying is the only thing that I can embrace, not because it brings emotions out, it is the competition that I like, and roleplaying is a way to escape reality and become someone else, and to act out their emotions but not feel them myself.  If you are feeling emotions from a character you are playing, then you are a little more sensitive then me.  Heh.

-Delerak
Yeah, I cry at movies sometimes, though usually not at the typical cheap, maudlin romance movies that Hollywood puts out. I tend to cry at moments of sacrifice or heroism in movies, particularly those involving revolutions or some sort of conflict against a oppressive authority. My dad fought in the '56 revolution against the Soviets in Budapest, and I think that fact probably influences my emotional soft points.

For instance, my #1 crying moment in a movie is in Casablanca, when the French in Rick's start singing the Marseillaise to drown out the Germans who are singing their anthem. I cry sometimes at Gandalf's death in Fellowship too. Great scene, that one. Or, ooer, this is a good one: Watch all the Godfather movies in the space of a week or so. The final scene of the (generally inferior) Godfather III is cry-worthy to me. It's just slams the inevitability of death into your face...rams in the fact that you're going to die no matter what you accomplish and that everybody dies fundamentally alone.

I also almost never cry in a theater. Only when I'm alone at home watching a movie. I can't get into movies as much in a theater as everytime someone coughs or whispers it breaks my immersion.

However, to bring my post back on-topic (ie muds), doesn't competition stir up your emotions? Don't you feel anxious, defeated, triumphant, etc? I really think that the ability to arouse emotion is one of the two most noble things a creative art can do (the other being reveal something profound or create a tapestry on which someone else can reveal something profound).
-matt
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Old 08-15-2003, 06:33 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Aug. 15 2003,03:40)
Yeah, I cry at movies
But the thing is. Your still enjoying the movie when you cry right? It's the same with muds. If you play the mud you can cry (like you can cry at movies) but if you stop enjoying it and your crying, then you should consider stopping playing because your too involved.

I always enjoy playing in a roleplaying mud. No matter what happens to my character I enjoy it. I might be on the brink of death and I'll be on the edge of my seat enjoying every moment of it. It's when you stop enjoying it and start getting depressed because your IC friend died IG that you should stop playing

Just my 2 'sid *plink plink*
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Old 08-15-2003, 01:37 PM   #9
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Yes I competition touches some of my emotions, I guess. Hard to say.

-Delerak
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Old 08-15-2003, 01:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (John @ Aug. 15 2003,06:33)
But the thing is. Your still enjoying the movie when you cry right? It's the same with muds. If you play the mud you can cry (like you can cry at movies) but if you stop enjoying it and your crying, then you should consider stopping playing because your too involved.

I always enjoy playing in a roleplaying mud. No matter what happens to my character I enjoy it. I might be on the brink of death and I'll be on the edge of my seat enjoying every moment of it. It's when you stop enjoying it and start getting depressed because your IC friend died IG that you should stop playing

Just my 2 'sid *plink plink*
Oh yes, I'm definitely enjoying a movie when I'm crying at it.

I agree that it's a bit different in muds but that's largely because I think muds are capable of arousing an even greater range of emotions. But yes, if you're crying out of pain and/or fear you should probably turn the computer off and go outside.

--matt
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Old 09-11-2003, 05:19 PM   #11
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This is a very interesting thread you are bringing up. It seems that the discussion is taking veer into the roleplaying section rather than storytelling. At last it boils down to know how much is too much? When does the roleplay end and the psicological treatment appears? it all depends on the person how is in front of the screen.

Ebony, I personally would find your character a a greatest asset of roleplay, trying to conquer your doubts; after all, your former master, the one you stood side by side in combat and learning, your friend as you conceived it, betrayed your kin, why? I find that much more challenging than the stock paladin.
just a thought:
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