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Old 07-21-2005, 08:15 AM   #1
Slanted
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Heyo everyone,

I have been searching for a MUD with an intricate combat system (read, more than just swing and a very small list of preset skills that do HP damage) that doesn't require a constant grind of hunting to increase one's skill.

Essentially, I am just plain sick and tired of killing the same monster over, and over, and over and over again so I can go from 'uber peon' skill in broadswords to 'slight less uber peon.'

First, what I mean by 'intricate combat system'
-Targettable body parts on enemies
-Complex AI for MOBs
-PvP is not required. I don't really like PvP in stat based games.
-Pseudo-Realistic effects for combat, IE if I kill a monster, I don't want to be a meaningless kill... maybe if I kill too many in an aread, they relocate or send out hunting parties for me.
-Not class based or level based - I find these to be too restrictive. I like to have a unique skill set.
-Prefferably no HP system. I prefer wound/alternative systems with maybe HP as a secondary way to kill things.
-RP instensive would be a plus

Now, this is what I mean by 'no grind':

What I'd like to see is either A) dynamic encounters that take a lot longer, but don't involve lots of repetition of the same action or B) A quest system that encourages me to kill a lot of easier stuff on my way to a goal. In either case, I don't want to have to fight hundreds and thousands of respawns of the same monster to level. The only time I want to be fighting legions of things is when they assault an area in an actual legion.

With A)... well I have never seen any game do that effectively. Usually if they want long combat, they just increase the HP or whatever and you end up repeating the same set of actions until whatever it is you are fighting gets to 0 HP. Lame.

With B)... This can be both good and bad. Often times games that take this approach have maybe 3 types of quests to help you skill up. 1) Kill X amounnt of this monster... suck. 2) Deliver this thruogh monster infested wasteland... not too bad if the story behind it is cool and some dynamic encounters occur or 3) Kill this boss deep in some god-forsaken hole... This can be cooler, but unless the boss is unique (read: not just higher HP and harder hitting), it seems more like a grind. I'd like to see a new take on this I haven't encountered yet.

So what do you say, cats and kittens? Any MUDs out there that fit the bill?
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:06 AM   #2
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Accursed Lands has a much-lauded combat system, from what I hear the fighting-oriented people in the game say. I've never been into combat in games that much, but hey, different strokes.

The way it works for us is that combat is mostly automated, in that you basically just choose to attack something and then the game goes through the rounds for you (you can still talk and stop combat at any point, of course). From there, it's basically a countdown of who gets tired first, or who can damage the other critically. Naturally, if you manage to break your opponent's leg, they'll be knocked down, forced to kneel. If you break the other leg, they'll be defenseless on the ground, unable to parry the slowest hits. Break their arm and they can't attack with it. Break the other and they're a harmless stump. Or, you could go straight for the head and aim for a knockout from the start (though it's pretty difficult to hit, being so small, and whatnot). Or perhaps you've got a weapon so big and powerful you don't really need to aim at all, a score to the body would be damaging enough to knock the guy out in one hit.

PVP is, supposedly, our creme de la creme, but various AI controlled enemies are also pretty smart, and the game animals in particular have put up a challenge for many a hunter.

Now, I say all this knowing you're probably more interested in the lack of a skill grind, so I'll get right on to what probably matters for you. Learning combat skills in AL is like learning any other skill in the game. All it takes is practice. You don't learn how to fight by just going out and killing crap. Well, you could, I suppose, but the biggest mistake most new players make is attempting to kill every wild animal they see. Newbies that act like that usually die quickly. The best way to learn is to simply spar with someone more experienced. By practicing how to parry a blow, you learn how to parry a blow better. By trying to aim for someone's limbs better, you get better at aiming at people's limbs.

Now, naturally, the progress doesn't come easily (don't want to have too many Warrior McUbermiesters around, eh) but any character that's been put in at least a few rough situations ends up with at least mediocre combat skills, so I'd assume that a character dedicated to combat would have the ability to become quite the fighter.

There are also lots of things to fight in AL, but due to our strict IC/OOC separation I can't really tell you about them. Best to find out yourself anyways. Needless to say at this point, Accursed Lands is an RPI MUD. Find a reason for your character to fight, act it out, and everything should come naturally at that point. And for the record, we have lots of newbie support for anyone that asks for it.

IP: www.accursed-lands.com
Port: 8000

Our website seems to be down at the moment, but we're rebounding from a situation where our ISP dropped us unexpectedly. Server access is said to be consistant from now on, though.

EDIT: I forgot to address two of your preferances; there's no HP in Accursed Lands. The only numbers you're probably going to see are your age and the date. Also, for the pseudo-realistic effects, the things you talk about wouldn't really be appropriate for our game animals to be doing, but I know that response to attacks, as a feature, exists in the game. Find out how it works by experiencing it; that's pretty much all I can say on the matter.
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Old 07-21-2005, 09:40 AM   #3
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What I mean by 'grind' isn't so much killing the same thing over and over again, it is doing the exact same action over and over and over again. Whether it is sparring or crafting or whatever, most MUDs have systems that require you to basically spend time doing the same commands over and over and over again. I am not 100% sure about the AL system, but it seems to have the same philosophy. Heck, the way you describe it, the system almost seems automated, which is kind of the opposite of what I am looking for. But I will give it a try.

I do remember trying to roll up a crafter in AL once and I spent 3 hours unsuccessfully trying to figure out what commands to use to even get started on crafting. I tried everything I could think of, and nobody was willing to give me any guidance, which kind of turned me off to the whole system. I am afraid that the combat system will be similiar. I know my character wants to feint, he knows how to feint, but unless I can think of some obscure command like fleftpassive or something like that, it won't work? No thanks.
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Old 07-21-2005, 02:19 PM   #4
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You might want to give God Wars II a try.  It's only been in open beta for a couple of days, so it's still rather rough around the edges - but I've spent five years designing, developing and refining the combat system, and it's certainly pretty intricate (you can also check the progress reports to get an idea of how much work has gone into it).

-Targettable body parts on enemies

Each fighting technique targets one or more body parts.  If a particular technique can target more than one, then the actual choice is random, although most techniques will only target a single location or small subset of locations.  Note that there are dozens of different weapons*, and each has a wide range of techniques, many of which are specific to one of the 25 fighting styles.  In total there are just short of five thousand combat techniques.

* Although I use the term 'weapons' rather loosely - any object in the game can be used as a weapon, as can small creatures.  There are few things more satisfying than beating the naga queen to death with her own babies...

-Complex AI for MOBs

Each mob has its own tactics and available options, and you won't beat them all with the same strategy.  Animals and monsters often use natural weapons such as claws, bites, breath attacks, and such, while the more humanoid mobs will typically use weapons.  Some mobs will use ranged weapons, but they'll sheathe them and draw melee weapons if you get close - and if you break their weapons, they'll revert to unarmed combat.

-PvP is not required.  I don't really like PvP in stat based games.

You're safe from PK while within the starting world, and within the randomly-generated dungeons that lie throughout it.  Eventually you'll probably want to move on to the Nexus though, and that is PvP.

-Pseudo-Realistic effects for combat, IE if I kill a monster, I don't want to be a meaningless kill... maybe if I kill too many in an aread, they relocate or send out hunting parties for me.

There are no social consequences for killing mobs (at this point, anyway), if that's what you mean.  But then there aren't any neutral mobs, either.

-Not class based or level based - I find these to be too restrictive.  I like to have a unique skill set.

There are classes, but not in the conventional sense; you start off unclassed, and build up your character while learning the player skills required to fight effectively.  You can then join a class, which grants access to supernatural powers - for example a vampire can transform into a swarm of bats, a werewolf can craft fang necklaces, a demon can summon hellhounds, and so on.  All classes have access to all of the 'normal' abilities though, and there are no levels.

-Prefferably no HP system.  I prefer wound/alternative systems with maybe HP as a secondary way to kill things.

There are hp as a general measure, although you can also inflict special wounds (losing a hand is nasty, as one of your two main combat locations changes to a 'stump' combat table).  There are also numerous alternatives to direct damage, such as sweeps, stuns, entangles, feints, and so on.

-RP instensive would be a plus

Non-RP.  But if you want an intricate combat system, and you're not put off by the learning curve of something completely different (including a true coordinate-based world instead of the usual room-based system), I'd suggest giving it a go:

God Wars II: godwars2.com 3000

Make sure you check 'help newbie', 'help tutorial' and 'help tutorial2' to learn the manual combat system.  Learning to simultaneously control four separate body locations (left hand, right hand, head and feet) takes time, but the results can be pretty nifty:

KaVir draws his katana from his belt with his right hand.

KaVir whirls his katana around his body.

You arch your body into the stance called 'Coiled Serpent'.

KaVir leaps up into the air.

KaVir backflips away from you.

You perform the technique known as 'Embrace of the Serpent'.
You whirl your right whip in a low arc beneath KaVir.

KaVir performs the technique known as 'Circling Raptor'.
KaVir spins his katana around his body with blinding speed.

KaVir assumes the stance called 'Swooping Hawk'.
KaVir lands back on his feet and drops into a defensive crouch.

You lash at KaVir's face with your whip.
He ducks under your blow.

KaVir grips the hilt of his katana in both hands.

KaVir slowly circles around you to your left.

You twist into the stance called 'Slithering Snake'.
You start carefully stalking towards KaVir.

KaVir throws a spinning sweep at your legs.
You hop over his sweep.

KaVir lashes out at you with a spinning side kick.
Your left whip coils around his ankle, entangling it.

You yank hard on your left whip, pulling KaVir from his feet!

KaVir performs the technique known as 'Bird Takes Flight'.
KaVir whirls his body around in midair.

KaVir perform the technique known as 'Striking Hawk'.
KaVir spins his katana swiftly across your neck, decapitating you!

KaVir assumes the stance called 'Swooping Hawk'.
KaVir lands back on his feet and drops into a defensive crouch.

You crash to the ground.

Your severed head crashes to the ground.
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Old 07-21-2005, 05:17 PM   #5
Ilkidarios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Slanted @ July 21 2005,10:40)
I do remember trying to roll up a crafter in AL once and I spent 3 hours unsuccessfully trying to figure out what commands to use to even get started on crafting.  I tried everything I could think of, and nobody was willing to give me any guidance, which kind of turned me off to the whole system.
That was my main problem with SoI, there were all kinds of cool things to do but you'd have to type in random combos of letters in order to eventually over a series of days figure out ONE COMMAND.  And was there a manual in sight?  Well, there was a help system, but you had to know what you were looking for in order to find it.  I did eventually figure out how to skin this snake that I killed, but never found out how to do anything else with it except for shoving a blood drenched snakeskin into my backpack never to be heard from again.
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Old 07-21-2005, 06:17 PM   #6
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Hey, have you tried the Inquisition? From the latest reviews, I hear that the combat is kind of complex and centered around RP. I haven't played but I may try it out soon.

theinquisition.org:5050
http://www.theinquisition.org

Edited because the address was wrong.
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:27 AM   #7
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Try Legends of Karinth. Stances have real meaning; moves specific to particular styles. Targetable body parts with chance of instant slay if the right conditions are met. Heavy AI, so mob doesn't just stand there and take it. You might find it interesting.
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Old 07-22-2005, 11:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Ilkidarios @ July 21 2005,18:17)
That was my main problem with SoI, there were all kinds of cool things to do but you'd have to type in random combos of letters in order to eventually over a series of days figure out ONE COMMAND.  And was there a manual in sight?  Well, there was a help system, but you had to know what you were looking for in order to find it.  I did eventually figure out how to skin this snake that I killed, but never found out how to do anything else with it except for shoving a blood drenched snakeskin into my backpack never to be heard from again.
So what, exactly, was your problem with SoI again? I'm pretty sure there's no 'random combos of letters'; as a matter of fact, everything is pretty straight-forward. You eventually figured out how to 'skin' a 'snake'? I prolly woulda tried 'skin snake' first - and, hey, guess what? That works. Of course, should you provide me an example of a completely random bunch of letters needed to do something, I'll change my opinion of this.

As for the helpfiles, and knowing what you're looking for: so what? You can't find help on something without knowing what it is. If you were looking for help on, say, firing a bow, try 'help archery' - 'cause, y'know, that's what shooting a bow is. ####, even checking 'help shortbow', 'help longbow', or 'help crossbow' would get you the information you need.
I'm going to assume, however, that archery wasn't what you were looking for help on. It was simply an example.

Now, something to make this post at least somewhat on-topic. Well . . . hrm, alright. I don't really have anything else to say that's on-topic. Suppose I should put in a disclaimer, to just skip over, but that would have been better suited at the top I think. Ah, well.
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Old 07-22-2005, 04:57 PM   #9
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The main problem was that the materials command had an obscure keyword, and after I skinned the snake I had no idea what to do.  For instance, I tried typing 'materials snakeskin'...  Nothing.  Perhaps I should type in what I want to make to find out the materials?  Well, I didn't know what I COULD make with the snake skin, otherwise I wouldn't NEED the materials command.  Maybe the name isn't snakeskin?  Thats where the random combos of letters came in.  It's like giving a stone-age man a set of tools and telling him "Have fun!"  Since he doesn't know what to do next, he probably won't have fun.  All I'm saying is that there should be something listing the things you could do with different skins and crafting ingredients, you know, like a manual, and this is not the thread to discuss it in.
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