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Old 11-06-2003, 05:56 PM   #1
Sojourn
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Angry

What we are looking for are programmers proficient in the C language. Those who can write code from scratch, as well as feel comfortable walking their way through ROM based code. We apologize, but we look to create alot of origional code, and those with experience only in installing snippets will most likely not have the experience needed to aid us in the manner that we need.

While we cannot give too much information about our game, know that it is an original concept, very RP-enforced and extremely player friendly.

Send any and all questions my way and we can speak on a more personal level. sojournthread@yahoo.com

I await your inquieries.

Sojourn to the truth.
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:39 PM   #2
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Very mysterious! Ohhhh..heh
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Old 11-12-2003, 10:44 AM   #3
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha haha.


*gasps for air*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously, it doesn't work like that. It just doesn't.

-Visko
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Old 11-13-2003, 12:03 PM   #4
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Angry

Unfortunately, I beg to differ.

The style I use does not work for many of you because, and no offense when I say this, you have a self-centered or inferior state of mind, you can choose which you think is more true.

I have already gleaned impressive amounts of talent from my post, and I am extremely satisfied with the outcome. If you all, and by "you all" I mean those that scoff, do not approve, perhaps its because you are unworthy of the offer.

A thought.

Until then,

Sojourn to the truth.
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Old 11-13-2003, 01:00 PM   #5
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I think it's more the arrogant attitude which people find amusing. Certainly, you're unlikely to attract any of the better coders with your advert - the only thing people can deduce from your post is that you're running yet another ROM mud. Adverts like yours are a dime a dozen.
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Old 11-13-2003, 03:47 PM   #6
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Nah, I think Sojourn has a point. I would venture to say 85% of the posts I have seen on the various mudsites are, in some amount, a flame in nature. Kids (or immature adults) who have nothing better to do than to flame someone who is honestly just trying to find some quality staff. There is *nothing* wrong with having high standards. There is equally nothing wrong with wanting to avoid wasting your time with the "riff raff" that come in when they see your advert. He is trying to wade through the crap and seek out truly talented people. So...I think it's less arrogance and more low tolerance for twinks. This advert is *not* like many of the others out there...most of them will take whatever they can get. He is setting a standard and sticking to it. I say kudos to him. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Az
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Old 11-13-2003, 03:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kids (or immature adults) who have nothing better to do than to flame someone who is honestly just trying to find some quality staff.
By insulting everyone who doesn't apply?

Quote:
Originally Posted by
He is trying to wade through the crap and seek out truly talented people
Then he's doing it the wrong way. There are thousands of muds out there, the majority of which are looking for coders, and the majority of so-called "coders" hardly qualify as such. That means that the "good" coders can choose from hundreds of possible muds to work for (assuming they're not creating their own already).

So if you post "We're look for coders for our ROM mud and we're not going to tell you anything about it!", the only people applying will be the "riff raff" - those who will apply for anything that might give them the chance to have an imm.

If you want to get the attention of good coders, you need to show them something that'll attract their interest.
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Old 11-13-2003, 08:04 PM   #8
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Re Visko: ROFL!!!! And then some! Actually woke my kid up by laughing - and he's in the next (closed) room!

Anyway, the header got me curious, and the original post made me laugh. Get serious. If you really want people who can code, you'd better show the people who can code _why_ they should bother. My own ideas aren't necessarily better than yours - but who cares, I can code mine.
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Old 11-13-2003, 10:54 PM   #9
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I can believe you're getting something better than snippet appliers... That said, KaVir is right, and you are NOT getting the best out there... Then again, most of those folks are sitting on muds already, and sucking them to an existing mud takes mad skills (and often really really good world background writing skills).

It's simply supply and demand... Someone with no rep, no information they can share, basically, no hook, wants applicants... The main grab is that, simply put, it's a lot better formatted than most ads (ala spelling, grammar, and, lo and behold, even punctuation!, but, as a whole, nothing makes it stand out from other, similar ads. You can weed out the real riff raff, but you're still going to get mostly less stellar apps.
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Old 11-17-2003, 09:26 AM   #10
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KaVir is right, Spazmatic is right...but we weren't talking ( up until now) about the lack of content. We were talking about the appearance of arrogance through high standards.

It is true that I have seen *many* adverts get shot down or flamed because the poster failed to mention what type of codebase was being worked on, and anothe biggie is the theme you are going for. Now I myself have just recently (in the past few months) landed myself with an *exceptional* coder through similar "unrevealing" posts. I did say that I was searching for a custom programmer, and I did say that I had a fantasy based campaign setting already together. So, Sojourn, you might want to be a *bit* more revealing (you know, show them some leg but make them guess as to what's actually under the skirt).

Az
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Old 11-17-2003, 10:32 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by (KaVir @ Nov. 13 2003,15:58)
That means that the "good" coders can choose from hundreds of possible muds to work for
Unfortunately, the massive quantity of lousy snippetmonkeys and stock worthless MUDs has created a situation of mutual distrust.  In a hypothetical world where a truly gifted person were looking for a coder, and didn't already have their mud fully operational with a large playerbase, then their cries for coders would yield naught, as all the good coders would be forced to assume the MUD in question was just another stock.  At the same time, however, a very good coder who refuses to work for such a stock MUD, is **** out of luck unless they closely befriend an owner of a quality MUD.

It is the same with exceptionally good builders.  An exceptionally good builder refuses to work at a MUD if it can't readily prove itself to be worthy, but any MUD which readily proves itself worthy refuses to take on a builder who can't...

We all pay dearly for the bloody antics of the snippetmonkeys, the stock junkies and the "builders" who throw a few rooms together and then sit around abusing their magic immy powers

For a good coder, the only real solution is to create their own MUD.  But most good coders are busy people in RL.  I yearn very deeply to be able to just casually code somewhere, augmenting and perfecting an already finished world, but now that Aethar's closed down and my schedule makes creating a MUD from scratch impossible, there is no way.
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Old 11-17-2003, 11:50 AM   #12
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I do my own coding on my own MUD, so I don't have a lot of experience being a coder for another...

That being said, I kept a MUD up for a couple of years a while ago (coded with a lot of feeling, but not a lot of knowledge or skill at the time) and contracted a lot of different admin staffs to help me out.

For a lot of reasons, things didn't work out and I'm in the development process once again. But I will probably never hire another coder based on posting on a MUD site or anywhere else. I know a few people who I trust with my code, and those are the ones I keep around for advice or help.

One of the previous posters mentioned a mutual distrust between owners and coders; I've noticed this. Generally it happens with people who have no idea what they're doing and truly are snippet-monkeys, but if an IMP is so exacting and controlling, and has little knowledge of code or reasons why completely rewriting the combat infrastructure of a MUD might take more than a couple of hours, the anger and frustration can extend beyond the simple "really stupid 13-year-old patchmonkey" relationship.

To address what I think is the bigger point, and has been stressed rather strongly: you come off as an arrogant ass. If I met you in real life, I'd probably slap you repeatedly. And I pray (with my idiotic Christian beliefs) to God for mercy on the unwitting souls who try to work with you.

Maybe I'm wrong. Possibly you can be just as agreeable as the next MUD admin (*cough*) but you have so far demonstrated nothing that would infer this.

So as to being simple-minded and inferior...sure. Why not. But my head isn't stuck "in the clouds" of methane somewhere inside the nether regions of your ass either.

-Visko
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Old 11-17-2003, 04:53 PM   #13
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I would have to agree with Erdos. I think that the term "coder" has been stretched in every way imaginable. And the sheer numbers of stock muds who can never hope to be anything but stock are rising hourly it seems. I do, however, continue to disagree with opinions such as was stated in Visko's last post. I don't think Sojourn has been too arrogant or pompous.

Look at it this way Sojourn, with all the attention and replies your threads have recieved...it's certain that you have had *plenty* of builders and programmer review them
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:08 AM   #14
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Angry

I cannot believe this is turning into an actual conversational thread, but whatever, I mean entertainment is entertainment.

The truth of the matter is that I received some *wonderful* people, and I've had to turn away quite a few. Whether or not YOU found the post interesting, informative, worthy of your time, or whatever the case may be, we've attracted the attention of some unbelievable talent.

In truth we had to turn most away because too many cooks spoil the soup.

Unlike most MUDs, we now have a team of coders, that all work in sync with one another and I'm currently interviewing two more. All from this post. We ensure they custom code, give them test projects, and finally introduce them to our spread.

Now if you feel I was insulting everyone, well you are wrong in your interpretation. If you notice, I wrote the following:


Quote:
Originally Posted by
If you all, and by "you all" I mean those that scoff, do not approve, perhaps its because you are unworthy of the offer.
Notice the "those that scoff". I'm sure you missed that, meaning its not everyone that doesn't apply, but those that saw it fit to comment negative. Please pay attention.

Also -

Quote:
Originally Posted by
The style I use does not work for many of you because, and no offense when I say this, you have a self-centered or inferior state of mind, you can choose which you think is more true.
Again, notice no application of blame. It was a choice given.

Sojourn
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Old 11-19-2003, 12:11 PM   #15
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The truth of the matter is that I received some *wonderful* people, and I've had to turn away quite a few. Whether or not YOU found the post interesting, informative, worthy of your time, or whatever the case may be, we've attracted the attention of some unbelievable talent.
Perhaps your definition of "unbelievable" is different to mine, but as I said before you will not attract any of the really "good" coders with your advert. But as you're just running another ROM mud anyway, you should be okay with inferior coders.
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Old 11-19-2003, 01:40 PM   #16
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sojourn:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Unlike most MUDs, we now have a team of coders, that all work in sync with one another and I'm currently interviewing two more. All from this post. We ensure they custom code, give them test projects, and finally introduce them to our spread.
On Nov 6 you advertise for a team. Less than two weeks later you're already talking about the project like it's an established success story and all of the people who questioned your ad have been conclusively proven wrong.

I'm going to have to vote with KaVir et al on this one.

Stilton
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Old 11-22-2003, 12:15 AM   #17
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Heck, even I'm agreeing with KaVir, and everyone knows that that's a lesser sign of the apocalypse. :-)

Truth be told, there are fewer and fewer amazing coders out there, and those that exist tend to be silent for years at a time, before they churn out something stunning and amazing, mind boggling, etc... I'm guessing, though it is exactly that, a guess, that the economy is partially to blame, since keeping your resume up with recent tech, massive projects, and renewed education is becoming more and more important.

Either that or all but the core of the uber coders are moving towards other arenas, for other reasons... *le sigh*
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