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Old 04-18-2002, 05:19 PM   #1
Caxandra
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We've recently had this question posted to our mud, since it seems every guild wants to have it's own leveling spot. The unfortunate side effect to this is after they build their on select spot, the builder seems to disappear before he/she finishes any 'loner' areas. Is there any balance to this or should I suck it up and take our few *good* builders to build the loner areas?
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Old 04-18-2002, 05:36 PM   #2
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Do these people still play and use that leveling area? If so, don't put it in until they've done a 'loner' area as you put it. That would show them that building for their own benefit alone will not be tolerated.
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Old 04-18-2002, 06:23 PM   #3
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agreed.
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Old 04-18-2002, 07:52 PM   #4
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I'd suggest keeping a list of necessary zones publicly available. This assures people know what has to be done, and if someone comes up with an idea, they can just check the list, and if it fits an area needed, post a message that the area is being worked at. And don't allow thise 'special guild' areas until you've seen some production, as Orian suggested.
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Old 04-18-2002, 09:27 PM   #5
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Exclamation

Just my personal opinion, but I'd tell them that they were SOL.
If the guild has their own area, for storage and for IC purposes, shouldn't that be enough? By giving each guild or clan their own seperate leveling area, a MUD owner would be encouraging each guild to go off seperately, which would cause segregation within the game. Noone would interact, and RP would probably drop off considerably, because everyone's out leveling in their own area. If you're running a PK, hack and slash, that might be something that you find appealing, but if you're running an IC RP heavy place, that's definately something you don't want. There's a whole MUD out there to explore, and if they say they've explored everything already, (*whine*) that might mean that it might be time to liven things up and create something new, or toss the mortlets a new activity to appease the masses
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Old 04-18-2002, 09:37 PM   #6
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I don't fully understand the idea of guild levelling ideas, I guess the muds I've played on don't have a reason for them.

If you're having problems with builders completing other areas, maybe they should be required to produce a loner area before they can do a clan one. If they're serious about building areas in general, not just serious about building clan areas, they'll stick around.
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Old 04-19-2002, 12:24 AM   #7
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I'm going to assume from some details in your post that your MUD is either not focused on roleplaying or only makes minor prods toward it. If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.

Seeing as how players want areas that are specifically designed for themselves and their group to level in, you need to look at the reasons for their request. Here's what I came up with:

1) They want a safe haven from player killers of other guilds.
2) They want an endless supply of mobs for them to hack at without fear of someone else that isn't friendly clearing the area first.
3) They want isolation.

I don't think that any of the three listed encourage what every MUD emphasizes in some way: interaction.

Say you do see some positive benefits to the idea, or the whining just gets to be too much to take, why not have the players in the guild do some work for their special area? Have them create the layout, design the rooms and write the descriptions and then send it in for approval. If it's approved, it gets put in with one or another staff builders creating the objects and mobiles that will appear within. If it isn't, they'll need to try again and resubmit.

Giving players a challenge will do one of two things: they'll surprise you or they'll come to their senses.

Either way, you win.

Best!
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Old 04-19-2002, 12:40 PM   #8
Neranz Laverani
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One other possible reason for wanting a guild levelling area is to have items that are only available to the guild members through the area. If items are allowed, every item in the area would have to be scrutinized carefully (not to mention mobiles and gold).

Back to the original question. If you allow guild members to make their own levelling areas, you could have them work on another area concurrently. The levelling area would be hooked into the mud when the other area was. Most likely they will build the levelling area first, but they will have to finish the other area, to your satisfaction, to get their area in. To be honest, I would not expect more than the two areas out of them. If they were inclined to be a builder, they will continue building after the two. It sounds like they are only interested in getting something for their guild though.

Do you have to immortalize these people on the main mud to allow them to build the guild areas? If so, I have three possible recommendations:
1. Open a building port
2. Make an offline editor
3. Have your coder set up a trust system where mortals can build on one assigned area at a time.

To be honest, these are all good steps while testing new builders.

Neranz Laverani, Seeker of Knowledge
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Old 04-19-2002, 01:41 PM   #9
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I love this forum. Each of you have brought up an aspect I had not thought of and I greatly appreciate it. I have posted the question to our players and it does seem to be appealing to them all to have a leveling spot-- some for the rp reason of 'training' and earning guild items in an training environment. Others so that there is less 'kill stealing' in the other areas of the mud. I do like the idea of if they want their area in, they also have to build area X and they'll both be put in at the same time. Thank you all so much for your time and thoughts.
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Old 04-19-2002, 06:43 PM   #10
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To get around the items problem you could create a mob program that only loads guilded items randomly upon mob death if the PC is in the specific guild....that way if it is open to the public the guild still gets a perk
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Old 04-20-2002, 02:05 AM   #11
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I just want to say, I've played a bit of AWW in the past weeks, so I've seen the notes on there about this as well.  Personally, while I disagree overpowering clans/guilds by giving them access to special leveling places others can't use, I believe that it makes sense, In Character.  A powerful entity like the White Tower has teachers and practice yards, etc., as should any organization, except perhaps the smallest.

I suggest clans with an IC justification for their leveling area keep them, but those who can't, should not.  Gleemen should not have leveling areas that involve combat.  The Seanchan most certainly would have private training for their troops.

I realize my opinion centers on a specific genre, and isn't going to help others... But those are my thoughts.
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Old 04-20-2002, 06:12 AM   #12
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All thoughts are welcome. I'm still collecting notes from the players about this as well, and hoping to find some middle ground between just a mud of leveling guilds and a good place to interact with others in an environment condusive to roleplay.
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Old 04-22-2002, 05:04 AM   #13
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Being a rabid player of AWW, I like to post my ideas (I indeed posted them on the mud itself, but maybe some of you agree/disagree.)
Falconer wondered whether AWW was low RP, or heavy PK, neither is true, his third reason for guild-areas, being that some areas get cleared all too often exists however. Nevertheless having guild areas will only enhance these problems for those people that don't have any or maybe for people in a very big guild... Having all areas open for everyone will make sure more areas of the specific level range exists.

Another idea, having levelling-areas when there are IC reasons for it, isn't that good, while IC a very good thought, it can cause grudges among players. Would I be inclined to choose this guild with no levelling areas, training, teaching, equipment, whatsoever, just because I'm an avid RP-er? Maybe. But the question is not what the RP-freaks would do, but on what basis your average jack picks a guild, it can be sheer bad luck (as their are a few guilds you join on creation (race-determinated)), but it certainly should be because the other guild is so badly equiped, he wouldn't stand a chance to become a 'biggie' in there.

Hence I believe guilds should get an equal change in it, and as Cierin said, to prevent 'money-runs' (=slaughtering relativly low-level mobs, to get cash and equipment) you can make the objects load on death and make them guilded (even if it are closed areas). Reason for this is that I know of a guild that made quite a bit money by auctioning decent they could easily get in their guild area (as I complain about ti, it's clear I'm not in that guild of course )

For me personally the main reason to have 'open' guild areas is of course, so I can hop around, explore and map, as I really like to admire the work of our Builders when bored with levelling and I'm just too lazy to make 20-odd characters just to be able to get in every guild...
Not only do closed areas directly effect my exploring options, it also does for many players that can stick from lowest to almost highest level in their guild area, and never see the rest of the world.
------
If levelling is IC, let it be completly IC, if you can't cope with a world of serial-killers, make it OOC.
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Old 04-22-2002, 07:55 PM   #14
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I personally find that guild coding is a privelage that should be granted special permission for. If someone has not even made an area and is still an appretice, why should they even be allowed to code a guild. Contributions should start small and build up slightly. Guild coding is a big job anywhere, if done right, and a good deal of time should be spent on it.
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Old 08-29-2002, 11:32 AM   #15
Neranz Laverani
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Moved from Builders Forum
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Old 08-30-2002, 02:17 AM   #16
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If your good builders are not very busy or involved with their current areas, have them do a room or two a day. If the loner area isn't that important anyways, why bother having a builder set on that.
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Old 08-30-2002, 07:43 AM   #17
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I have very little experience with this kind of mud, so if I say something stupid, ignore it.

How about make the areas in question semi-private, i.e. if someone outside the guild wants to use them they have to pay hard cash, or promise their firstborn son, or whatever. That right there would lead to interaction, providing anyone wanted to use someone else's area instead of their own nice cushy one, as well as provide revenue for the guild. Or heck, maybe make areas that have some kind of teleport to them, and the portal moves around from place to place. Maybe more often than not it shows up in guild areas, but sometimes it could pop up outside, and maybe sometimes it'd pop up in another guild entirely. All depends on what your mud is like, which I know nothing about.
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:33 PM   #18
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Personally I frown on areas that only certain players can level at, BUT I like the way we have GUILD areas set up on Tarmon Gai'don: GUILD areas are off-limits to ANY mob killing. GUILD areas have special eq for guild members to purchase(slightly better eq than you can buy elsewhere, but not as good as eq you can get off of mobs). GUILD areas are designed 100% for RP and IC development.

IF, and I mean IF you persist on having guild leveling areas, I suggest the use of mprogs to make it more IC. An example would be a Warder to train warriors: when you type <kill warder> the mprog commands peace, then would give a message like "So, you wish to spar and practice your sword a bit lad?" the mob grunts and emotes drawing his sword and starting the combat. When the mob dies it will emote that it bows to honor the winner of the spar and congratulates them before reloading the mob back into the room.

This is just an idea of a way to keep GUILD areas more IC and promote more RP...unless you dislike RP, then ignore everything I just said...err, wrote...umm, nevermind, just go MUD.
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Old 09-10-2002, 05:26 AM   #19
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When I read the title of this thread, the first thing that came to mind was the concept of guilds/clans gaining levels, like players (I've played on a MUD where clans gained levels).

As far as guilds having levelling areas, I strongly disagree with this.

First, I think that it, in the long run, will create lethargy in the members of the guild(s).  Because if I have my own levelling area that I can't be interrupted or PK'd in, why would I want to go out and explore the rest of the world?

Second, on an RP MUD, how many guilds are going to actually undertake a project of "cultivating" mobs for slaughter? Such a project would be extremely time consuming, and a logistical nightmare for the guild.  If you allow the option, it should come with some considerable upkeep costs.

Third, while I can understand the logic of a "training ground", I don't see how that translates to killing mobiles.  I could understand having some "training" mobiles, for improving skills and such, but this type of training should be of the non-lethal type.

I'm from the PK world, and when members of guilds/clans are in their guild halls or restricted levelling areas, doing whatever, they're not out in the real world, exposing themselves to PK.  I understand that the RP world is different, but I think that having guild only levelling areas will hurt the overall interaction of players on a MUD, regardless of the MUD's format.
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Old 09-10-2002, 05:43 AM   #20
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Heya all,

I think building your own guild hall is very nice actually. I disagree with keeping it for guildmembers only. The guildhall should be something to show potential members what the guild is about and show the prizes and riches of the guild without them being able to touch them.

Of course guildmembers would want some privacy, but they don't need an area with mobs in it for that. Maybe a few mobs that can't be attacked or will unable to be killed. Those mobs can then be used to prac/train or sell/handout guilditems to guildmembers.

The idea to make a xp zone just for one specific guild seems very odd to me. It would depend on the xp if people will join that guild?

Just my thoughts,

Dre
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