Top Mud Sites Forum Return to TopMudSites.com
Go Back   Top Mud Sites Forum > Top Mud Sites News > Bugs and Suggestions
Click here to Register

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-06-2007, 02:14 PM   #1
Aeran
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 208
Aeran is on a distinguished road
Some suggestions

Here's a few suggestions that could improve TMS:
  1. Make the MUD list avaible through RSS, like MudMagic is doing so that it could be used in a MUD client. E.g you would need to be able to access host/port information minimally but more extended info is nice too like host/port/name/desc/codebase/category/rank/iconUrl.
  2. Make it possible to retreieve information about a specific MUD through RSS. For example websites might want to read the ranking data about a MUD to show its current rank.
  3. Let MUDs ping TMS with the current amount of online players to be used to show statistics about MUDs. Also make the statistic count in the ranking. A nice feature could be to be able to access graphs on MUDs to see how that MUD is currently doing.
  4. Use captcha on voting that isn't too easy for AI to read. For example I have seen on some phpbb forums captcha's that would be very easy to make an AI for.
  5. If a MUD manages to reach #1 and doesn't have an icon - reward them with the ability to upload one for free and let them keep it a while.
  6. When on the voting page show if the IP has already voted, and how many hours are left before voting is possible once again.
Aeran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 02:26 PM   #2
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,299
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Re: Some suggestions

Letting MUDs ping TMS with the current # of online players is a bad idea since there's no way to verify that it's real data. The significance of online players also varies enormously based on, among other things, a MUD's policy on afk-ness. I've seen MUDs where 2/3 of the players online were shown as AFK for 20 minutes+, for instance.
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 02:42 PM   #3
Aeran
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 208
Aeran is on a distinguished road
Re: Some suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_logos View Post
Letting MUDs ping TMS with the current # of online players is a bad idea since there's no way to verify that it's real data. The significance of online players also varies enormously based on, among other things, a MUD's policy on afk-ness. I've seen MUDs where 2/3 of the players online were shown as AFK for 20 minutes+, for instance.
The issue with afkness could partly be solved by sending two numbers: {totalOnline, afkOnline}. Just like how players complain when a MUD has too good ranking today due to possible cheating, players would be able to complain about wrong statistics. You can't really be certain of anything sent from a 3rd party - not even votes, but you can have faith that it is somewhat correct.

I just got yet an idea while writing this. Pings could be sent through e.g IMC2 or intermud protocol. TMS could act as a hub and provide a friendly chat community for the connected MUDs.
Aeran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 04:13 PM   #4
Spoke
Member
 
Spoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 101
Spoke is on a distinguished road
Re: Some suggestions

The only problem I see with this is that it seems it would bring more headaches than benefits. If you add "features" like this, you usually add them with rules, with rules you bring the need of enforcement, with enforcement you bring the need to get people you trust police different sites, etc etc. Then you would have to balance the impact this information would have in the rankings, then the issue of P2P, P4P, Free, and how some models would inherently attract more players than others, H&S vs RPI. And the list goes on and on. I guess you could add this type of info to the specific mud's page, if a person is interested and they click on TheMudOfTomorrow's specific page, they could potentially benefit from seeing this, otherwise, I see it more as a headache than anything else.
Spoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 06:47 AM   #5
Baram
Member
 
Baram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
Home MUD: Tears of Polaris
Posts: 218
Baram is on a distinguished road
Re: Some suggestions

captcha is a bad idea, would turn off a lot of people to voting, which means less traffic for the site. Since TMS is based around that traffic... not a good choice for them.
Baram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 11:31 AM   #6
Aeran
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 208
Aeran is on a distinguished road
Re: Some suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baram View Post
captcha is a bad idea, would turn off a lot of people to voting, which means less traffic for the site. Since TMS is based around that traffic... not a good choice for them.
Actually captcha, depending on how it is implemented, is not really a trouble in my opinion as it makes the voting system more fair. There are some MUD voting sites that actually require you to login to vote and that makes you not want to vote there .

Sure it is possible a few people don't want to vote due to some captcha phobia but overall it is more fair and reduces chance that MUDs cheat their voting with bots which is not good for anyone. It is a very easy change and could make the voting results much more accurate.
Aeran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 01:58 PM   #7
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,299
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Re: Some suggestions

It's really got nothing to do with "CAPTCHA" phobia and everything to do with avoiding putting barriers to traffic in place.
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 02:11 PM   #8
Threshold
Legend
 
Threshold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,240
Threshold will become famous soon enough
Re: Some suggestions

We've had this discussion many times and I still think any form of captcha on the voting would be a big pain that would only reduce traffic.

Traffic is what helps muds that are listed here more than anything. Most likely none of the voting results would significantly change, and then the only real net result would be less traffic to the site (and therefore, less traffic to every mud listed on the site).
Threshold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 02:56 PM   #9
Molly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sweden
Home MUD: 4 Dimensions
Posts: 566
Molly will become famous soon enoughMolly will become famous soon enough
Re: Some suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Threshold View Post
We've had this discussion many times and I still think any form of captcha on the voting would be a big pain that would only reduce traffic.

Traffic is what helps muds that are listed here more than anything. Most likely none of the voting results would significantly change, and then the only real net result would be less traffic to the site (and therefore, less traffic to every mud listed on the site).
How does 'click cattle' that use a script to click the voting button and then close the window automatically again, without even even casting a glance on the page, help other listed Muds? Is that really the kind if 'traffic' that TMS wants?

Captha sounds like a great idea to me.
Molly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 03:32 PM   #10
Spoke
Member
 
Spoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 101
Spoke is on a distinguished road
Re: Some suggestions

I believe the argument they are implying goes like this Molly:

1st. Assume that all MUDs have players that vote the "intended way" by opening a browser, clicking on the vote icon in their sites and checking into TMS.
2nd. Assume that all MUDs have some players that vote "semi-automatically" by some sort of script that takes them directly to the "Do you want to vote for this MUD?" page.
3rd. Assume that most MUDs have players that will use a "completely automatic" script that will open browser-vote-close browser.
4th. Assume that in general (statistically speaking), the proportion of players on each category is similar. It is clear this is maybe the weakest assumption but on average I do think (opinion) that it is valid.
5th. Assume that the majority of the people voting belong to the first two categories.

CAPTCHA would take care of the 3rd category, meaning those voting would be humans, but if we accept the 5th argument that would not reduce the perceived traffic by much. Now the problem is the other two categories, if someone went so far as to set a script that would save them a couple of steps posting a vote (open the browser directly at the "Yes or No" page), it would make sense to assume that a good chunk of these people would be at least inconvenienced by a CAPTCHA and maybe the proportion of inconvenienced people in the 1st group would be somewhat lesser. Now the problem is that any one person that belongs to either of these groups that has been inconvenienced enough to not care about voting means a real traffic hit less. I do not have any way to decide what the proportion is between the first two groups, so nothing further could be said on that direction, but the final argument is that even though you would take care of the meaningless hits you would also dissuade real hits from coming, which at the end, is bad for the site.
Spoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2007, 03:32 PM   #11
shadowfyr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 310
shadowfyr will become famous soon enough
Re: Some suggestions

Umm. Not sure what your point is Molly, unless you mean we should have to vote *through* the link page where all of them are listed, since voting pages "never" show anything other than the name of the mud you are voting for and an option to bypass and go to the site. Even without captcha, I close the window after voting on most of them and I rarely *ever* look at the other muds in the rankings. The only reason I go past the initial stages of the page load after voting is because this site has forums. Without forums, there would be no reason for me to look at anything other than the page where the voting is done, manual or not.

In other words, TMS isn't getting traffic from me, or likely much of anyone else, of the sort you "think" is so critical. Unless they are looking at the forums, most people are probably only interested in voting where they are currently online and playing, or will log into soon after voting. I doubt many make it a habit to look at anything else anyway.
shadowfyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2007, 03:05 AM   #12
Threshold
Legend
 
Threshold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,240
Threshold will become famous soon enough
Re: Some suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfyr View Post
Unless they are looking at the forums, most people are probably only interested in voting where they are currently online and playing, or will log into soon after voting. I doubt many make it a habit to look at anything else anyway.
That's true of most, but also irrelevant to the overall goals and benefits of the site.

Most people ignore the majority of advertisements they are exposed to, but that doesn't stop people from advertising.

The gain comes from the occasional people who DO notice your ad, or your game, or whatever and then try it out. Maybe they are voting for their game, and they enjoy it, but they also want to try something new. There are a lot of reasons someone who is voting for their current favorite game might decide to go ahead and check out some other games.

Discouraging people from voting at all through things like captcha hurts everyone, and in the long run will have virtually zero effect on the rankings anyway.
Threshold is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Style based on a design by Essilor
Copyright Top Mud Sites.com 2014