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Old 09-13-2008, 09:15 AM   #1
Kitab
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Moneyless MUD

Hello there. I came up with an idea for an MMO with these distinguishing features:

It would be set in a peaceful world that has recently started to see attacks from various monsters. There would be a training-based skills system in which players learn combat, magic, medicine, thievery and a variety of crafts such as cooking, gardening and making clothes and other products. But there would be no monetary economy. The players would be organised into a number of communities and would combine their skills to defeat the non-playable (i.e. A.I.) monsters and would not fight each other (except perhaps for training purposes). You'd either have to get a band of people together to go and face the invading monsters, or they'd launch surprise attacks on a community. I do have more detailed thoughts about what it might look like - such as being able to see who taught whom their skills, and the ability to die and be reborn with your skills intact - but that's the essence of it.

Realising that a full-blown graphical MMO of this may never happen, I thought maybe it would be worth looking into MUDs, but I don't have much experience with either playing or making them. So the questions are: Are there any MUDs out there that have some or all of these ideas implemented? (Yes, I have done some research on my own already, but I feel that this is a rather specific query.) And if I were to brave making one myself (which is looking quite unlikely at the moment), are there any systems that spring to mind that could be suitable?
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Old 09-13-2008, 03:23 PM   #2
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Re: Moneyless MUD

Quote:
Are there any MUDs out there that have some or all of these ideas implemented? (Yes, I have done some research on my own already, but I feel that this is a rather specific query.) And if I were to brave making one myself (which is looking quite unlikely at the moment), are there any systems that spring to mind that could be suitable?
Unless I'm misunderstanding your concept, you're basically describing the advancement mechanics of most practice-based muds (i.e., Circle, ROM ). If that's the case there are probably hundreds of muds with systems like you describe (save the lack of money of course). Though it almost sounds like you're saying only players can teach other players their skills.

For the economy I'm guessing you would have players get free equipment to start and then only collect mob drops? It seems inevitable that a monetary economy of some kind will eventually develop.
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Old 09-13-2008, 05:30 PM   #3
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Re: Moneyless MUD

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Originally Posted by Ide View Post
Unless I'm misunderstanding your concept, you're basically describing the advancement mechanics of most practice-based muds (i.e., Circle, ROM ). If that's the case there are probably hundreds of muds with systems like you describe (save the lack of money of course). Though it almost sounds like you're saying only players can teach other players their skills.
Player A could ask player B to teach them a skill that they know. I suppose for many crafts there may also be some knowledge to be obtained simply from experimenting on one's own. You'd also gain experience when you actually put your skills into practice. You're probably right here; there's nothing new about that. What may or may not be new, as far as I can see - apart from the lack of money - is the concept of forming teams of people to fight specific invading creatures (I had the sense that a lot of games just have you go out to a place that has monsters to fight on your own in order to level up, which is different). But I also envisage different towns/communities, each of which is attacked by invading fiends (either at the specific behest of the game's administrators, or at random intervals), and during which the whole place must pull its efforts together: some would fight, some would protect those who fight and some would protect those who don't, etc. When the battle is won, it goes down in the history of the town, and so makes it more of a significant 'story' event, defined by the actions of the players.

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For the economy I'm guessing you would have players get free equipment to start and then only collect mob drops? It seems inevitable that a monetary economy of some kind will eventually develop.
Mob drops...? Is that some kind of candy? (*Checks Wikipedia*) Oh, I get it. No, there'd be equipment available for free when the game began, but after that it would need to be manufactured from raw materials, which might require certain skills which someone would have to teach you. I'm not sure exactly at the moment how the actual process of crafting would be interesting, given that it's a digital simulation; it depends on what the craft is. It would be nice to make the process as realistic as possible, so that the knowledge you learn from those who have experience in it is actual knowledge that you can put into simulated practice, but the commands to do so would only become available when you've learnt them from someone who knows them (e.g. you learn how to spin yarn and the spin command becomes available to you. Needless to say, you'd be able to start your character with pre-learnt skills.) I've never understood why a monster would drop useful weapons or armour (which just happens to fit you!) but I suppose they might 'drop' raw materials that can be used to make items or give them special properties.

You mean knowledge would become the currency? It's possible, but I wouldn't enforce or concretise it.

OK, now let me tell you that I started thinking about this stuff while looking at a game of The Sims. And I thought - I'd find the game more fun if it were set in a fantasy world. As such, another feature of the game might be the implementation of what they call 'needs'. As well as things like HP and MP you'd have the Sims-like things of hunger, bladder, energy and comfort, so that you'd have to build eating, sleeping and resting into your activities. I didn't think these things were necessary parts of the game, which is why I didn't mention them before. I'm still not sure how worthwhile it'd be.

Thanks for the reply.
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Old 09-13-2008, 06:07 PM   #4
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Re: Moneyless MUD

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Originally Posted by Kitab View Post
But I also envisage different towns/communities, each of which is attacked by invading fiends (either at the specific behest of the game's administrators, or at random intervals), and during which the whole place must pull its efforts together: some would fight, some would protect those who fight and some would protect those who don't, etc. When the battle is won, it goes down in the history of the town, and so makes it more of a significant 'story' event, defined by the actions of the players.
There are muds with timed events like these. It seems so common I can't think of a specific example really; Legends of Karinth for example had pirate attacks on the main town frequently last I played there. However the idea of each community targeted by a specific kind of fiend, a personal nemesis so to speak, sounds cool enough to base a mud around.


Quote:
I've never understood why a monster would drop useful weapons or armour (which just happens to fit you!) but I suppose they might 'drop' raw materials that can be used to make items or give them special properties.
It depends on whether you're fighting a green ooze or a troll, right? And whether you're a troll or a green ooze .


Quote:
You mean knowledge would become the currency? It's possible, but I wouldn't enforce or concretise it.
No, I mean if units of iron are a valuable, easily obtainable commodity, that will become your currency. Buffy gets 1000 iron, gives it to Biff, who gives it to Boffo in exchange for a sword, who gives it to....etcetera.


Quote:
As well as things like HP and MP you'd have the Sims-like things of hunger, bladder, energy and comfort, so that you'd have to build eating, sleeping and resting into your activities. I didn't think these things were necessary parts of the game, which is why I didn't mention them before. I'm still not sure how worthwhile it'd be.

It wouldn't be worthwhile without careful design. Stock eating and drinking is one of the most annoying things you can do in a mud.
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Old 09-13-2008, 06:41 PM   #5
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Re: Moneyless MUD

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Originally Posted by Ide View Post
There are muds with timed events like these. It seems so common I can't think of a specific example really; Legends of Karinth for example had pirate attacks on the main town frequently last I played there. However the idea of each community targeted by a specific kind of fiend, a personal nemesis so to speak, sounds cool enough to base a mud around.

It wouldn't be worthwhile without careful design. Stock eating and drinking is one of the most annoying things you can do in a mud.
(which is why we removed stock eating and drinking years ago - it's always seemed silly to have a game tell me when I'm hungry.)
Portsmouth is still under attack with annoying frequency. The pirates are literally taking over!
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Old 09-13-2008, 08:33 PM   #6
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Re: Moneyless MUD

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Originally Posted by Ide View Post
There are muds with timed events like these. It seems so common I can't think of a specific example really; Legends of Karinth for example had pirate attacks on the main town frequently last I played there. However the idea of each community targeted by a specific kind of fiend, a personal nemesis so to speak, sounds cool enough to base a mud around.
OK, thanks. Seems I need to do a lot more scouting around to see what certain games do. And yes, that specific fiend idea is really good - I didn't actually think of it that way!

Quote:
It depends on whether you're fighting a green ooze or a troll, right? And whether you're a troll or a green ooze .
Yes! Quite right.


Quote:
No, I mean if units of iron are a valuable, easily obtainable commodity, that will become your currency. Buffy gets 1000 iron, gives it to Biff, who gives it to Boffo in exchange for a sword, who gives it to....etcetera.
It's possible, but it would never be 'legal tender' in any meaningful or enforced way. And that's not how I imagined it, anyway. I'll get back to you on that, because it may involve a lengthy discussion. It sounds as if most of what I'm talking about constitutes general features of muds, with the exception of the moneylessness. So are there are any muds that have no money - by which I mean currency that you would simply have to use in order to be functional in the game?

Quote:
It wouldn't be worthwhile without careful design. Stock eating and drinking is one of the most annoying things you can do in a mud.
I can imagine. But it works in The Sims, so there must be circumstances under which it can be worthwhile. It would actually be quite interesting to compare the mechanics of a game like The Sims to the mechanics of an RPG, because even in The Sims you have skills acquisition and 'advancement' (in career).
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:43 PM   #7
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Re: Moneyless MUD

Even though as other's have stated there are several MUD's that do have the features you seek. (Personal example is NW where the entire storyline is based around several invading forces that players combine to battle against), however your concept and ideas would be yours and your world would be your creation so perhaps there is merit in what you do.

Before you go further though, I suggest looking at this link: http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/mu...p-me-tips.html

It is a discussion on building a MUD.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:28 AM   #8
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Re: Moneyless MUD

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Originally Posted by Ide View Post
No, I mean if units of iron are a valuable, easily obtainable commodity, that will become your currency. Buffy gets 1000 iron, gives it to Biff, who gives it to Boffo in exchange for a sword, who gives it to....etcetera.
Essentially, my thinking is that when you want a product, you have to make it from scratch, or obtain it from the appropriate store (i.e. a place where things are stored, not a place where you buy things). If you want some new and better armour, you would put your current armour in the armoury, which is the 'store' for armour. Newer or less experienced players or players without as great a need for quality armour can then take what you dropped, at least until they make their own. If you need to mine an ore, then you would take the mining equipment from the appropriate store and put it back afterwards; you wouldn't need to buy and possess your own shovel, for example, and I think to 'enforce' this, it would be necessary to make it so that you can only carry one or two implements of a certain type at a time. You drop the shovel to wield the sword, and maybe if the shovel is left lying around for too long, it automagically goes back to the store.

For healing potions, I think the most logical thing to do is for someone with the know-how to make a big batch of healing potion in the laboratory, take what they want and then let people help themselves from the rest. When it runs out, someone makes a new batch; if they need the skills, they learn them.

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Originally Posted by Newworlds View Post
Even though as other's have stated there are several MUD's that do have the features you seek. (Personal example is NW where the entire storyline is based around several invading forces that players combine to battle against), however your concept and ideas would be yours and your world would be your creation so perhaps there is merit in what you do.

Before you go further though, I suggest looking at this link: http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/mu...p-me-tips.html

It is a discussion on building a MUD.
Thank you, yes. I did have a look at that topic the first time I came to the forum.

I think the best next step is for me to join an existing MUD. I'll scout around for one. It would need to have crafts (i.e. the ability to make products from scratch), and preferably not be set in a stereotypical medieval world, but I won't be too picky on that.
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