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Old 06-18-2009, 06:04 PM   #21
Anasadi
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

Threshold wrote:
I would really like to hear how long various mud servers are able to stay up between reboots.
I am unsure. We often (too often, to players' lament) stay up 90+ days at a time. We reboot when we have something new to add on the Java side of the code. We've actually try to cut back on the amount of time between reboots to add small, new stuff and make the player base happy.

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Old 06-18-2009, 06:25 PM   #22
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anasadi View Post
Your game seems to have a good deal of stability. Congratulations. I might suggest, however, you take care in the length of time between reboots. I am unsure why, but there are many players I've come across who are under the impression that reboots are required for new things. They get itchy around the second month or so without a reboot, and ravenous by the third and later months. It seems for some players a reboot shows the immortals care.

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The MUD invisibly reboots once every 4 hours. Unlike other MUDs, it does not announce the fact that it is rebooting. Occaisionally, you notice the reboot, but it's usually mistaken for a refresh while playing. Many times you miss it entirely.

OT: Of note, my particular MUD is welcoming new builders. It helps to contact me via other methods, particularly email, when you want me to do something administrative like allocate new vnums for you. I tend to approve all applications which include at least a paragraph response during the login sequence, when new players are asked if they want to build or not.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:27 PM   #23
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

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It's called COPYOVER. The mechanics of this are identical to a "hard" reboot of the game with the only exception being that it does not disconnect the users. It is an illusionary system since performing one resets the game state unless one goes out of their way to add extra support to try and save more information than just player connections.
I allocated no more time to the feature in light of other things on the to-do list. You could save the entire world state though, but the process might be slower when recovering.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:58 PM   #24
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

Then your game reboots once every 4 hours and has a maximum uptime of 4 hours. Reporting it as 39 days is quite simply a lie. Only someone trying to make bogus claims about their stability would feel the need to deceptively call it a "soft reboot" or claim it was up for "39 days".
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:07 PM   #25
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

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Originally Posted by Threshold View Post
That would be interesting. I would really like to hear how long various mud servers are able to stay up between reboots.
I have went over 400 hours up with absolutely no errors or issues (I log extensively), but then I wanted to add new code that had been compiled and was waiting. I modify far to often to let it rest that long. I love new coded content far to much.

Barring a physical server outage, other processes on the same server eating to much memory, or a MYSQL failure I firmly believe my code could run forever, but then again it is Java (CoffeeMUD derived, extensive modifications). One of the beautiful things about System.gc().

I have seen a DBZ MUD on my old (shared) server up over 2,500 hours. No clue on their code base, but I was impressed when I saw it on "top".
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:32 PM   #26
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

I am adding a small side-comment. Mabus wrote:
Barring a physical server outage, other processes on the same server eating to much memory, or a MYSQL failure I firmly believe my code could run forever, but then again it is Java (CoffeeMUD derived, extensive modifications)...
*chuckle*

I've never worked with CoffeeMUD, so I cannot comment on it. Java, on the other hand, was the language on which our game was written, and we've not had many issues that would cause a crash. I've only known of two actual crashes (one was power supply failure, the other a strange bug between our code and the VM), plus a few times the main thread hung, but that's it. And we're talking since Java version 1.0 here. For all its perceived "slowness", Java has served us very well.

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Old 06-18-2009, 08:55 PM   #27
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Then your game reboots once every 4 hours and has a maximum uptime of 4 hours. Reporting it as 39 days is quite simply a lie. Only someone trying to make bogus claims about their stability would feel the need to deceptively call it a "soft reboot" or claim it was up for "39 days".
No, the MUD ran for 39 days. The "game" reboots, within the server. It does this to maintain a certain limit on uncontrolled growth. This number could be increased, and has in the past been as high as 1000 hours, or 30000 hours or whatever you would set that limit to. I like 4 hours because it keeps the MUD fresh and consistent.

Last edited by locke : 06-18-2009 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 06-19-2009, 06:26 AM   #28
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

Nope. The MUD ran for 4 hours. Then it was told to reboot. The fact that it kept the players' connections intact does not change the fact that your game did in fact perform a full reboot without their knowledge.

Of course, to be fair, if it happens to cater to "grinders" they may not even be aware it works that way. So to them, they see nothing more than a spot of short lag every 4 hours. But you are deceiving yourself and those of us who know how these things work by trying to claim you've had 39 days continuous uptime.

And yeah, other people have pointed out that this isn't a major feat. I had a customer who launched a Merc derivative and had players in and out of the place all the time and it ran for 120 days straight without ever rebooting OR performing a copyover. The only reason it got interrupted was because a kernel security update had been installed and needed a system reboot to bring it up.
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:36 PM   #29
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

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NiMUD's OLC has appeared in thousands of active online games
Actually it's 'The Isles OLC' which was ported.
Saying it's NiMUD is like saying Merc is Diku isn't it?
I mean you did say that you completely rewrote the game between then didn't you?
It'd make NiMUD a Isles->Merc derivative, even if it's you doing it.
(or a completely new game if you started from scratch,
but I was under the impression you had said you'd re-written)
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:14 PM   #30
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Arrow Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

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Actually it's 'The Isles OLC' which was ported.
Saying it's NiMUD is like saying Merc is Diku isn't it?
I mean you did say that you completely rewrote the game between then didn't you?
It'd make NiMUD a Isles->Merc derivative, even if it's you doing it.
(or a completely new game if you started from scratch,
but I was under the impression you had said you'd re-written)
It's a Merc derivative, though the Merc part of it is rather small now, many years later. It's merely "The Isles" and the server "NiMUD" -- this has been the case since 1994, after "The Isles OLC" was released. I don't think it needs to move in the DMFT and if you wanted to trace lineage it's more or less something like:

Diku->Merc + LP + MUSH + Circle

It is largely rewritten. It is many times larger and more complex and possesses many underlying feature changes which set it apart from just being a Merc derivative. The game is, like M/D, loosely based on TSR products, with some Palladium Books ideas thrown in, an original world, totally original in-game statistics, and many features originally written by me but based on features from ZebestaMUD, DuneMUSH, LPmud, Merc, Diku, Circle and I bet some other variants. When I say "originally written by me" I mean that I wrote original source code that deployed functionality similar to those aforementioned software packages, some of which were never released publicly.
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:06 PM   #31
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

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Originally Posted by locke View Post
It's a Merc derivative, though the Merc part of it is rather small now, many years later. It's merely "The Isles" and the server "NiMUD" -- this has been the case since 1994, after "The Isles OLC" was released. I don't think it needs to move in the DMFT and if you wanted to trace lineage it's more or less something like:

Diku->Merc + LP + MUSH + Circle

It is largely rewritten. It is many times larger and more complex and possesses many underlying feature changes which set it apart from just being a Merc derivative. The game is, like M/D, loosely based on TSR products, with some Palladium Books ideas thrown in, an original world, totally original in-game statistics, and many features originally written by me but based on features from ZebestaMUD, DuneMUSH, LPmud, Merc, Diku, Circle and I bet some other variants. When I say "originally written by me" I mean that I wrote original source code that deployed functionality similar to those aforementioned software packages, some of which were never released publicly.
In your resume you put English (Mastery). Come on dude, you're using comma splices all over the place. Where's the semicolon?
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Old 06-19-2009, 11:49 PM   #32
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

It's the Medthievia defense!
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Old 06-20-2009, 01:35 AM   #33
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

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Originally Posted by Delerak View Post
In your resume you put English (Mastery). Come on dude, you're using comma splices all over the place. Where's the semicolon?
Careful, he invented English by completely rewriting the language and now you have to put a disclaimer on any sentence you write using it. He also invented the comma splice and the semicolon and hasn't gotten the 2.1836% royalties he was promised.
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Old 06-20-2009, 11:21 AM   #34
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Re: The amazing robustness of NiMUD 5

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Careful, he invented English by completely rewriting the language and now you have to put a disclaimer on any sentence you write using it. He also invented the comma splice and the semicolon and hasn't gotten the 2.1836% royalties he was promised.
I'm being honest though. All quips aside. I don't care if the guy is a genius, I just think if you list yourself as having Mastery over something you should be able to.. well master it. I consider myself intermediate with English, and have only taken one college course on it.
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