Top Mud Sites Forum Return to TopMudSites.com
Go Back   Top Mud Sites Forum > Mud Development and Administration > Legal Issues
Click here to Register

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-23-2009, 05:21 PM   #61
locke
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333
Posts: 195
locke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabus View Post
And at that point he violated the DIKU license, removing any permission to modify the DIKU source. Every modification, including additions, to the source from that point on was in violation of the license.
No, it is a transformative work with significant changes in meaning. If what you said was true, there would be no derivative nor transformative works.
locke is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:31 PM   #62
Mabus
Member
 
Mabus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 213
Mabus is on a distinguished road
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
No, it is a transformative work with significant changes in meaning. If what you said was true, there would be no derivative nor transformative works.
Let me break this down for you again, as you cannot seem to understand it.

From the DIKU license:
Quote:
You may not remove any copyright notices from any of the documents or
sources given to you.
You did that, which violated the rule stated in the license.
Quote:
You are allowed to alter DikuMud, source and documentation as long as
you do not violate any of the above stated rules.
Since you violated the license, from that point you were no longer allowed to alter the source.

Even you are smart enough to understand that.
Mabus is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:36 PM   #63
locke
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333
Posts: 195
locke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabus View Post
Let me break this down for you again, as you cannot seem to understand it.

You did that, which violated the rule stated in the license.

Since you violated the license, from that point you were no longer allowed to alter the source.
No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.
locke is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:47 PM   #64
Mabus
Member
 
Mabus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 213
Mabus is on a distinguished road
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone.
I didn't write the DIKU license.

Are you stating I incorrectly quoted the license? Please clarify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.
First, you are not a moderator of this board. If the staff of this board has an issue with any of my posts I am sure they will address the issue.

Second, I have not stated "I created YouTube" as you have (Steve Chen, Chad Hurley and Jawed Karim created it). I have not stated "Yes, my cousin is a COL POLAD who helped shut down Gitmo." as you have (GITMO is very much still open). I also did not violate the DIKU license as you have.

Those issues have "already been established".
Mabus is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:50 PM   #65
locke
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333
Posts: 195
locke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.
locke is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 06:31 PM   #66
prof1515
Senior Member
 
prof1515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 791
prof1515 will become famous soon enoughprof1515 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to prof1515 Send a message via Yahoo to prof1515
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.
They are not his opinions and his alone. You're the only one with an opinion unsupported by anything or anyone. The only thing you've proven is that you're a liar and a delusional one at that.
prof1515 is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 07:47 PM   #67
locke
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333
Posts: 195
locke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.
locke is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 07:52 PM   #68
Wik
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: OtherSpace
Posts: 140
Wik is on a distinguished road
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

I do believe we broke him.
Wik is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 08:10 PM   #69
prof1515
Senior Member
 
prof1515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 791
prof1515 will become famous soon enoughprof1515 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to prof1515 Send a message via Yahoo to prof1515
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

He's probably curled up in a corner rocking back and forth while saying, "I invented OLC. I invented YouTube. I invented the internet. I invented English."
prof1515 is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 08:12 PM   #70
locke
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333
Posts: 195
locke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

As a transformative work, it does not have to follow the license. A transformative work is one that is significantly different than what it was based on. For this reason, I do not have to follow the license.

Line length of files in nimud package:
Quote:
1903 admin.c
792 admin_edit.c
1929 admin_info.c
181 alias.c
44 ascii.c
1016 bit.c
864 board.c
104 castles.c
52 client.c
3554 combat.c
970 config.c
55 convert.c
145 crypt.c
1163 def.c
210 disease.c
732 door.c
5999 edit.c
284 events.c
5284 functions.c
154 furn.c
429 grammar.c
775 graphics.c
1745 handler.c
209 html.c
4610 info.c
2348 interpreter.c
138 language.c
137 lists.c
3866 load.c
852 magic.c
1570 map.c
1166 map2.c
2347 mem.c
541 money.c
42 mood.c
252 mount.c
1595 move.c
71 mssp.c
86 mssp_client.c
301 mssp_tables.c
1511 nanny.c
2429 net.c
1094 parser.c
3178 props.c
1352 save.c
1270 shop.c
147 sigsegv.c
1052 skills.c
1697 social.c
52 spells.c
2022 string.c
764 telopt.c
56 tips.c
413 track.c
120 translate.c
2151 update.c
102 warmth.c
498 worldgen.c
199 xrand.c
39 board.h
2 client.h
85 defaults.h
63 edit.h
15 fight.h
523 functions.h
36 graphics.h
105 magic.h
29 mem.h
16 mood.h
198 mssp.h
86 net.h
238 network.h
3959 nimud.h
487 script.h
27 shop.h
10 sigsegv.h
63 skills.h
470 spells.h
61 telnet.h
9 worldgen.h
186 horror.c
1994 net_macfix.c
3 Charlatan-attack_script.txt
1 Confession_script.txt
7 Foglad_script.txt
3 Ghorlad_script.txt
1 Scroll_script.txt
87 adventurer_script.txt
85 aelmon-shipmate_script.txt
30 army_of_darkness_script.txt
11 assistant_script.txt
3 assister_script.txt
15 asynthia-dishwasher_script.txt
3 auto-mount_script.txt
2 avoider_script.txt
5 baillion-born_script.txt
6 baillion-enter_script.txt
42 baillion-hirelings_script.txt
5 bains-greeting_script.txt
12 basler-sentence_script.txt
3 begger-ask_script.txt
3 begger-gives_script.txt
4 black_hole_script.txt
4 bombing_script.txt
7 captain-say_script.txt
8 captain-snore_script.txt
3 charlatan-assist_script.txt
2 charlatan-bounty_script.txt
3 charlie_script.txt
3 chicken_script.txt
7 cigarette_script.txt
12 cit-weather_script.txt
2 citizen-killed_script.txt
10 cooshee-follow_script.txt
20 dishwasher_script.txt
6 disposer_script.txt
11 dockmaster-zalufin-kess_script.txt
6 dog_script.txt
19 dragon-staff_script.txt
3 enter-bite_script.txt
3 exec-each_script.txt
15 faernkad_script.txt
6 fast-mover_script.txt
40 ferryman-delivers_script.txt
11 ferryman-gets_script.txt
3 ferryman-greet_script.txt
9 ferryman-vlaz_script.txt
4 fight-bite_script.txt
10 fisherman_script.txt
7 frallad-quest_script.txt
5 galleybot_script.txt
16 gate-knock_script.txt
3 giant-history_script.txt
9 giant-throw_script.txt
4 goat_script.txt
6 grin-bounce-hop-flip_script.txt
3 guard-citizen-assist_script.txt
3 gurgle_script.txt
3 hallway-sound_script.txt
51 hovelcovel-dreams_script.txt
3 innkeeper-greet_script.txt
42 ithian-caravan_script.txt
12 jester_script.txt
5 keeper-trace_script.txt
29 kess-zalufin-route_script.txt
23 king-pay_script.txt
5 kltara-aggro_script.txt
3 kltaran-archer_script.txt
5 kltaran-cleric_script.txt
11 konith_script.txt
5 librarian-hush_script.txt
9 librarian_script.txt
5 long_disposer_script.txt
25 lormos-shipwrecked_script.txt
7 marauder_script.txt
16 marine-script_script.txt
7 max-greet_script.txt
9 merc-born_script.txt
2 merc-dies_script.txt
9 merc-eage_script.txt
5 merda-greet_script.txt
31 mine_script.txt
5 missus-frallad_script.txt
20 missus-gets_script.txt
9 move-four-west_script.txt
19 mudman_script.txt
4 necro-attack_script.txt
22 necro_ethereal_aid_script.txt
1 new script_script.txt
2 nogive_script.txt
5 nosod-enter_script.txt
9 oliphant_script.txt
7 panel_script.txt
3 peasant-tribunal_script.txt
11 pet-dog_script.txt
15 pilot_script.txt
8 proc-citizen_script.txt
6 put-all-backpack_script.txt
5 put-money-in-pouch_script.txt
4 quick_disposer_script.txt
20 radio_script.txt
3 random-static_script.txt
2 recruit-follow-born_script.txt
7 recruit-taunt_script.txt
3 ressat-greeting_script.txt
7 rose-bow_script.txt
16 royal-guard-1_script.txt
9 savage-bandit_script.txt
5 scallywag-bartender_script.txt
6 scrambler_script.txt
125 seacaptain-list_script.txt
11 sheriff_script.txt
102 shipmate-intrepid_script.txt
5 shipmate-shipwrecked_script.txt
103 shipmate_script.txt
17 singe_script.txt
2 sit-born_script.txt
3 sit-when-born_script.txt
3 sit_script.txt
2 sleep_script.txt
2 sniff-snuff_script.txt
23 snipe-360_script.txt
3 snipe-enter_script.txt
8 songbird_script.txt
3 spasm_script.txt
2 speak-mudaki_script.txt
1 spell-animate-dead_script.txt
19 spell-firestream_script.txt
18 spell_brimstone_script.txt
4 spell_find_familiar_script.txt
17 spell_iceblast_script.txt
16 spell_icesword_script.txt
16 spell_singe_script.txt
18 spell_smartstorm_script.txt
4 spell_water_heal_script.txt
16 spell_waterspirit_script.txt
17 spell_waterwall_script.txt
5 stablehand-enter_script.txt
147 stablehand-sell_script.txt
32 tanzer-choice_script.txt
7 tanzer-greet_script.txt
16 taug_portal_script.txt
7 tersa-greet_script.txt
7 testing_script.txt
33 tetrazon-summon_script.txt
9 thilonenne-druid_script.txt
20 thilonenne-quarterstaff_script.txt
8 tiktuan-aggro_script.txt
5 town-crier-2_script.txt
111 town-crier_script.txt
38 trynt-to-arena_script.txt
1 unused_script.txt
2 vagabond-bounty_script.txt
3 vagabond-steal_script.txt
5 vassal-spar_script.txt
23 vlazgad-to-trynt_script.txt
7 wailing-savant_script.txt
16 waterspirit_script.txt
3 wife-assist_script.txt
13 winery-worker_script.txt
10 wolf-pet_script.txt
30 zalufin-kess-route_script.txt
371 README
49 cleanup
3 go
444 manifest.txt
88 package
8 perlstart
56 recompile
29 refresh
0 src
4 start
46 startup
1 stop
82037 total
Original Merc 2
Quote:
1598 act_comm.c
1454 act_info.c
984 act_move.c
2058 act_obj.c
2274 act_wiz.c
1736 comm.c
1081 const.c
2266 db.c
1501 fight.c
1376 handler.c
1623 interp.c
2194 magic.c
342 save.c
706 special.c
801 update.c
1602 merc.h
26 startup
23622 total
82037
-------- = 0.28794324512110389214622670258542
26322

Considering only the source code and related scripts:
Even without comparing content of individual lines, we can see that if I had just inserted "Merc" into the NiMUD package and then wrote stuff around it, Merc would only constitute 28.79432...% of the content that is included in NiMUD 5. If you compare the lines of code, you would determine that the actual content that is still Merc/Diku is an even smaller percentage, probably around 10% though I don't really know and do not plan on doing a case study involving a diff. Since a majority is >50%, you can easily say the majority of the content in NiMUD is original and therefore not Merc/Diku MUD. Because of this, you can say it is a transformative work. Since it is a transformative work, it is NOT a derivative but instead a "transformation" of the original Merc/Diku MUD into something totally new. Therefore, NiMUD is mine and does not need to follow any licenses by Diku or Merc or anyone else.
locke is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 08:33 PM   #71
prof1515
Senior Member
 
prof1515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 791
prof1515 will become famous soon enoughprof1515 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to prof1515 Send a message via Yahoo to prof1515
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
As a transformative work, it does not have to follow the license. A transformative work is one that is significantly different than what it was based on. For this reason, I do not have to follow the license.
...Even without comparing content of individual lines, we can see that if I had just inserted "Merc" into the NiMUD package and then wrote stuff around it, Merc would only constitute 28.79432...% of the content that is included in NiMUD 5. If you compare the lines of code, you would determine that the actual content that is still Merc/Diku is an even smaller percentage, probably around 10% though I don't really know and do not plan on doing a case study involving a diff. Since a majority is >50%, you can easily say the majority of the content in NiMUD is original and therefore not Merc/Diku MUD. Because of this, you can say it is a transformative work. Since it is a transformative work, it is NOT a derivative but instead a "transformation" of the original Merc/Diku MUD into something totally new. Therefore, NiMUD is mine and does not need to follow any licenses by Diku or Merc or anyone else.
Even if 0.00000001% of it is Diku or Merc it's not your property and you have no right to claim someone else's work. Your code, and by that I mean the code of the person who likely wrote it and from whom you simply leeched off, is still a derivitive and and thus subject to the terms of the Diku license.

Posting long segments of code doesn't change anything. The original work wasn't your's and thus you're a thief if you don't provide the proper credit. All you're proving by your repeated denials is that you're an egotistical moron, a fool with a sub-par IQ who is so much less than he thinks he is.

Why not save some face and just acknowledge that you're wrong? Everyone here knows it and can see that. Repeating the same tired disproven opinions won't change that fact.
prof1515 is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 08:45 PM   #72
locke
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333
Posts: 195
locke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by prof1515 View Post
Even if 0.00000001% of it is Diku or Merc it's not your property and you have no right to claim someone else's work. Your code, and by that I mean the code of the person who likely wrote it and from whom you simply leeched off, is still a derivitive and and thus subject to the terms of the Diku license.
No, that's just not how the law works. I suggest reviewing the information at Stanford posted earlier about transformative works. Also, your claims that I "leeched work" are unfounded and wouldn't hold weight without evidence. You can make all the outlandish claims you want but without any real hard evidence (of topics in which I have quite thoroughly proven the opposite) it won't be considered as fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prof1515 View Post
Posting long segments of code doesn't change anything. The original work wasn't your's and thus you're a thief if you don't provide the proper credit. All you're proving by your repeated denials is that you're an egotistical moron, a fool with a sub-par IQ who is so much less than he thinks he is.
I have to say, "Mr Grammar Cop", that "your's" is not a word or valid contraction. I think you meant "yours" -- well obviously you're a child or at least an immature person because other people don't seem to take pot shots at my ego while delivering their retorts. You also don't apparently know what code is, considering I haven't posted any. I posted the output of the linux command "wc"

Quote:
Originally Posted by prof1515 View Post
Why not save some face and just acknowledge that you're wrong? Everyone here knows it and can see that. Repeating the same tired disproven opinions won't change that fact.
Because I'm not wrong, not "everybody" sees it your way and frankly I'm tired of changing your diaper.

Last edited by locke : 06-23-2009 at 09:00 PM.
locke is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 10:03 PM   #73
Mabus
Member
 
Mabus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 213
Mabus is on a distinguished road
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
transformative works.
A few problems:
1) You have no "compelling public interest" for the transformative work to exist.
2) Your usage is not a parody, nor for purely informative or educational purposes.
3) Amount and Substantiality of the original work is extensive.
4) A modified DIKU is still available for sale. Your usage could cause harm.
5) The main body of DIKU is "a multi-user online text game", as is your derived work.
6) You lost any "fair use" when you violated the software license.

You're grasping at straws when you are trying to claim it as a "transformative work".

Also remember that software is not art and music. Courts have given more leeway to artists then to software developers, as deriving a work in art deals with impressions while using another coder's code (and claiming it as your own) is usually considered theft and/or piracy.

And then there is that whole sticky issue that US Copyright Law does not apply with DIKU. You might want to check into "Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 May 2001 on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society " and "Copyright law of the European Union" (as well as treaties between the US and the European Union dealing with intellectual property).

I will leave you with this:
There are places that offer free mental health screening and aid. There is nothing wrong with having issues. You may want to seek help.
Mabus is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 10:44 PM   #74
Samson
Member
 
Samson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: United Socialist States of America
Home MUD: SmaugMuds.org
Home MUD: Arthmoor MUD Hosting
Posts: 249
Samson is on a distinguished road
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

This whole issue of "transformative works" does not even seem to be set in law yet?
FindLaw's Writ - Hilden: The Organization for Transformative Works and Its Bid to Protect Fan Fiction Are Its Proposed Changes to Copyright Law, Creating Immunity for Suits Against FanFic, a Good Idea?
I mean, they're still debating it in terms of proposed changes as far as I can find through Google.
Samson is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 10:52 PM   #75
locke
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333
Posts: 195
locke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Thanks for all of your unsubstantiated claims (and some boldfaced lies). See ya in the game!
locke is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 10:56 PM   #76
Baram
Member
 
Baram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
Home MUD: Tears of Polaris
Posts: 218
Baram is on a distinguished road
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Your code is NOT "transformative work" it is a DERIVATIVE and always will be, and therefore subject to the DIKU license.
Baram is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 11:34 PM   #77
gth
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 50
gth is on a distinguished road
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by locke View Post
Therefore, OLC is not mine and does not need to follow any licenses by me or anyone else
There, fixed it for you.
gth is offline  
Old 06-23-2009, 11:59 PM   #78
locke
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333
Posts: 195
locke is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

No, it's not a derivative because it is transformative and falls under "fair use".

Quote:
1. The Transformative Factor: The Purpose and Character of Your Use
In a 1994 case, the Supreme Court emphasized this first factor as being a primary indicator of fair use. At issue is whether the material has been used to help create something new, or merely copied verbatim into another work. When taking portions of copyrighted work, ask yourself the following questions:
  • Has the material you have taken from the original work been transformed by adding new expression or meaning?
  • Was value added to the original by creating new information, new aesthetics, new insights and understandings?
o.o
D

-.o
o

For NiMUD, the answer to both of these questions is a resounding and obvious "yes"; I have provided substantial evidence for this in previous posts. Anyway, I'm done here. It's obvious to me there is no way to settle this argument with you, so unless you are going to file some sort of court action against me, which you can't, I suggest dropping it. As a show of good faith, I am not going to post on this thread again. Feel free to lie yourselves into whatever you would like to convince yourselves of. Cheers.

Last edited by locke : 06-24-2009 at 12:08 AM.
locke is offline  
Old 06-24-2009, 12:07 AM   #79
Samson
Member
 
Samson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: United Socialist States of America
Home MUD: SmaugMuds.org
Home MUD: Arthmoor MUD Hosting
Posts: 249
Samson is on a distinguished road
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Except for the part where Mabus already explained why this is not the case.

And for the part that "transformative work" isn't something that seems to be valid law as all the links I can find point to it being proposed changes to the law that the US Congress has not taken up yet. The copyright.gov website has only one link directly dealing with the subject, which is the PDF document those wackos from the fanfic site submitted to them. You're behaving just like them in that your argument sounds like you wish to deprive Diku of their rights in the same manner they want to allow fanfic writers to deprive the original authors of their rights.
Samson is offline  
Old 06-24-2009, 12:08 AM   #80
Samson
Member
 
Samson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: United Socialist States of America
Home MUD: SmaugMuds.org
Home MUD: Arthmoor MUD Hosting
Posts: 249
Samson is on a distinguished road
Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
I am a code thief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gth View Post
There, fixed it for you.
There. Fixed it for both of you.
Samson is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Style based on a design by Essilor
Copyright Top Mud Sites.com 2014